Is Cathay only hiring SO or are they also hiring FOs as well?

According to the site they hire F/O's as well but for either it's a 7 year bond and they deduct your pay for it.

C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:46 pm According to the site they hire F/O's as well but for either it's a 7 year bond and they deduct your pay for it.

I think it's a 7 year prorated payback on the big signing bonus they give you to help you get set up in HKG... If you leave in 3.5 years you pay half back.

What is it? $30K or $40K? Everyone I know banked the majority of it.

If thata the case, it's not well explained

C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:24 pm If thata the case, it's not well explained

I didn't read anything. That's just what my friends at CX told me.

Fair enough. Still amounts to the same thing right? It's a 7 year agreement, and they deduct it off your pay. Even if it's paying back a bonus.

MarkyMark90 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:01 am

Dingbatt wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 am after a logbook filled with 4 years of SO P2X time which isn't even worth the paper its written on.

4 years and you’re still not upgradable as a FO ?

4 years is pretty common to be an SO in the past (from chats with some of the FOs there), and I don't believe there is a single SO who has gone past 5 years yet (granted, some have upgraded with way less). The P2X rating is only valid for 5 years per Hong Kong's authority, and I think the only way to get around this is if the airline makes you redo the training (which is probably more expensive than just upgrading you), or just finds some way to circumvent this limitation.

This all said, the current climate at CX can be described as quite murky with an uncertain future. The airline underwent some rather illogical cost-cutting measures. They are crewing 2 SOs for some of their long haul flights now, which means delayed upgrades in upwards towards the 5 year mark for the prospective SO (lower demand for FOs, and higher demand for SOs). There has not been a collective/tentative agreement between the union and the company for about half a decade now, with a recent agreement falling through. New joiners post December 2018 are also on a new contract that is degraded (D-Scale), and no one on the A through C scale are too happy about it. Cadets have to pay half their training now (through salary dedications), although you might get a pass if you join as a direct-entry SO. Unless some of these policies are reversed, it may be turbulent times ahead.

Fair enough. Still amounts to the same thing right? It's a 7 year agreement, and they deduct it off your pay. Even if it's paying back a bonus.

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is a such a long bond anymore unless you do a full cadetship, which you probably won't be doing without a Hong Kong permanent residence anyways. To my knowledge, they offer some smaller loans now which you can take or leave to get you set up in Hong Kong. If you don't take it, your bond is only as long as the cost to get you converted.

I figured it was only for the cadets but unfortunately straight from their website it's for cadets, direct entry so, and for.

My mistake. It wasn't Cathay it was Singapore.

Bond
Successful candidates will be required to serve the employer company for the duration of the training and for a period of seven years from the date of appointment as First Officer.

For ab initio, direct so or fo. 7 years doesn't even kick in till FO upgrade though.

. . . The P2X rating is only valid for 5 years per Hong Kong's authority. . . or just finds some way to circumvent this limitation. . . .The airline underwent some rather illogical cost-cutting measures. They are crewing 2 SOs for some of their long haul flights now

And thats just the thing, they have found a way. 5 years is an arbitrary limit anyways, but now new SOs get a P1X (still not P1) rating. Its all part of a plan to restructure the airline from 1CN 2FO 1SO Long haul to 1CN 1FO 2SO Long haul. Therefore, they need fewer FOs and more SOs. So upgrade times are at the 5 year mark right now, but if anything it will increase or best case it remains the same. There are plenty of cadets joining with 0 hours, so they'll have more than enough recruits. It just saves cathay a bit of cash if you join with a CPL that YOU paid for, rather than a cadet who haid his/hers paid for by Cathay

C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:55 pm My mistake. It wasn't Cathay it was Singapore.

Bond
Successful candidates will be required to serve the employer company for the duration of the training and for a period of seven years from the date of appointment as First Officer.

For ab initio, direct so or fo. 7 years doesn't even kick in till FO upgrade though.

Does Singapore even hire expats anymore? I thought they kicked them all out at one point.

Maybe not in actuality, but on paper yes. Only one that openly says for Singapore residents is cadet.

How is it to be a SO/RP... I mean, the joy of flying is to perform takeoff and landing for most of us. Doesn’t it get boring after a while of just “monitoring” the AP, even on a 777 ?

Dingbatt wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:57 pm

. . . The P2X rating is only valid for 5 years per Hong Kong's authority. . . or just finds some way to circumvent this limitation. . . .The airline underwent some rather illogical cost-cutting measures. They are crewing 2 SOs for some of their long haul flights now

And thats just the thing, they have found a way. 5 years is an arbitrary limit anyways, but now new SOs get a P1X (still not P1) rating. Its all part of a plan to restructure the airline from 1CN 2FO 1SO Long haul to 1CN 1FO 2SO Long haul. Therefore, they need fewer FOs and more SOs. So upgrade times are at the 5 year mark right now, but if anything it will increase or best case it remains the same. There are plenty of cadets joining with 0 hours, so they'll have more than enough recruits. It just saves cathay a bit of cash if you join with a CPL that YOU paid for, rather than a cadet who haid his/hers paid for by Cathay

Dingbatt, do you know anyone who has physically received a P1X rating recently? I legitimately want to know, as I posed this question up the grapevine once several months back, and most of the guys thought it was more of a Cathay thing than an actual rating (since there is neither reference of a P1X at HKCAD's site, nor is there reference in ops D).

You can PM me if you prefer. Thanks.

MarkyMark90 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:27 pm How is it to be a SO/RP... I mean, the joy of flying is to perform takeoff and landing for most of us. Doesn’t it get boring after a while of just “monitoring” the AP, even on a 777 ?

I believe when you have flown professionally long enough, the joy for many of this career is being able to spend time with family and pursue your other interests.

I dedicated a lot of years to flying before the airlines and in the airlines, countless sectors/take-offs/landings - I could care less. As much money as possible for as little time away... that's the formula for me... joy? meh...

altiplano wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:20 pm joy? meh...

Some of us are still excited to the feeling of flying, even at 60. We're not all like you

Okay... have fun in your Twotter FO Caribbean job at 60... probably right up your alley then...

I like my job fine enough, I like my home life better though and when I want to have fun and be excited in an aircraft I'll buy my own plane.

If Cx wants Canadians, it's probably because they know we're suckers who will work for no money, will always accept worse wawcon, and won't complain.

co-joe wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:01 pm If Cx wants Canadians, it's probably because they know we're suckers who will work for no money, will always accept worse wawcon, and won't complain.

Bingo!!!!

Dingbatt wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 am

Boreas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:57 pm If the choice is between Jazz and Cathay, as it stands right now and assuming your relatively young and single, Cathay wins hands down.

That being said, the geopolitical situation in Asia doesn't have the best outlook. One can easily end up having to "retreat" to Canada after 5 years as an SO at Cathay... without any additional flight experience to show for it...

I completely disagree. 4 years have gone by for me at Cathay and not going to Jazz was a disastrous mistake. When I was hired, Jazz wouldn't look at me, but now it seems Jazz are recruiting much more. Its far more money at Cathay; but it doesn't go very far in HK. I'm desperately trying to get back to Canada, after a logbook filled with 4 years of SO P2X time which isn't even worth the paper its written on. Plus, if you got hired now you'd be on the new contract.

Everyone can make their own decisions, but there is plenty of info on PPrne for reasons pilots are pouring out of Cathay.

Just my opinion, but I think you should weight in the life experience gained by living abroad and having layovers all over the world a little more - I presume you are young and single as that was the premise of my statement.

Regional flying at Jazz, followed by glorified regional flying at AC (E190/A320) isn't exactly the pinnacle of aviation that some on this forum would have you believe.

Just got the invite for a second officer interview in Hong Kong. Currently am at Jazz looking at an upgrade by years end. Should I go for it or stick with Jazz/AC? I would be bringing my wife and baby along if I got the job and was wondering if the salary would be enough to rent a decent sized space (1000 square feet or so) and live comfortably in a good area of Hong Kong... From most of the stuff I read on Pprune the second officer job doesn't seem worth it and direct entry FO jobs at Cathay require substantial jet time which I don't have.

I would have to think stay. Upgrades are a long way off if you go.

bearitus wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:27 pm Just got the invite for a second officer interview in Hong Kong. Currently am at Jazz looking at an upgrade by years end. Should I go for it or stick with Jazz/AC? I would be bringing my wife and baby along if I got the job and was wondering if the salary would be enough to rent a decent sized space (1000 square feet or so) and live comfortably in a good area of Hong Kong... From most of the stuff I read on Pprune the second officer job doesn't seem worth it and direct entry FO jobs at Cathay require substantial jet time which I don't have.

I think you'd be crazy to go as an SO... maybe FO.. if you can manage the time family pressures away from home/family... but why stall your career as an SO without a clear path to advance?

You're at Jazz - which really is a pretty good job - close to an upgrade, high probability of AC in a short time...

8-10 year plus Cathay FOs are coming home and joining AC every month right now if that's any indication... they are making a pile more then an SO starting out too...

Hong Kong would be a good experience... but not a good career move from what it sounds for you IMO...

altiplano wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:37 pm

bearitus wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:27 pm Just got the invite for a second officer interview in Hong Kong. Currently am at Jazz looking at an upgrade by years end. Should I go for it or stick with Jazz/AC? I would be bringing my wife and baby along if I got the job and was wondering if the salary would be enough to rent a decent sized space (1000 square feet or so) and live comfortably in a good area of Hong Kong... From most of the stuff I read on Pprune the second officer job doesn't seem worth it and direct entry FO jobs at Cathay require substantial jet time which I don't have.

I think you'd be crazy to go as an SO... maybe FO.. if you can manage the time family pressures away from home/family... but why stall your career as an SO without a clear path to advance?

You're at Jazz - which really is a pretty good job - close to an upgrade, high probability of AC in a short time...

8-10 year plus Cathay FOs are coming home and joining AC every month right now if that's any indication... they are making a pile more then an SO starting out too...

Hong Kong would be a good experience... but not a good career move from what it sounds for you IMO...

Thanks for the advice! I think you are right. My only motivation to go to Cathay was the AC starting pay for the first several years with a family to provide for but hopefully I can make it work out.

Absolutely you can make it work...

I did it too with a toddler and a wife at home not working. Still managed to make all the mortgage payments and didn't accumulate any debt... even got a couple vacations in...