Jazz pilots interviewing at mainline

[Traf]

Prior to 1995 there was no move up agreement at all. Most guys at Jazz who wanted to be at mainline already are. You bitch about people going to Jazz only to get a spot at mainline and now you bitch because they aren't taking enough from Jazz, or the "perks" are not good enough for you

I have never bitched about people going to Jazz to get to mainline. I think it should be a natural progression for those that want to go. I am just sick of AC/JAZZ playing the games. When times are tough, they send us memos and speaches that say we have to stand together and give give give to help the AC family survive. Now that we have exited CCAA and the hiring truck is pulling in, AC management is only taking a token few into their groundschools.

Remember, the common employer was very specific in saying that it was not a common employer. Really? Then why did we give concessions when someone elses employer filed for CCAA? Why is it that someone elses employer and pilots tell us what we can fly? How can Jazz management ask AC management to slow down on their hiring from Jazz until they get through this growth spurt? I would hate to see howt things would be if we had to answer to someone elses employer. That would really suck.

As for the perks, it has been mentioned above that the so-called seniority and pay perks are negated by the fact that someone elses employer is not hiring from us because of cost, manpower etc... The only people having their cake and eating too is the management for these 2 seperate airlines.

So, if you are a Jazz pilot and you don't want to go to mainline or have been PFO'd due to politics, what will you be willing to give in order to secure more Jets, more jobs etc...? Guess we will see in the next round of negots.

[piggy]

Guys

This is starting to look like the old saying, give them an inch and they will take a foot.

Prior to 1995 there was no move up agreement at all. Most guys at Jazz who wanted to be at mainline already are. You bitch about people going to Jazz only to get a spot at mainline and now you bitch because they aren't taking enough from Jazz, or the "perks" are not good enough for you.

If you are happy at Jazz and have so much contempt for mainline, why do you bitch so much about not getting the interview?

my take on this great aviation industry in Canada:

Jazz has 1400 pilots and are going to grow by at least 300. That is 1700 pilots. They have options for 45 more a/c and my guess the will exercise them as we are the best hoars in the industry. Mainline has 530? retirements over the next 3 yrswith the max rate of retirements in 2007. they have openly said that they will be hiring up to 600 pilots over the next 3 yrs. yes they are getting 60 emb @ 10 pilot per aircraft -thats 600 pilots. It seems to me there will be little growth at AC , just different A/C with new hires replacing retirements.
There is very little retirements at jazz because we hoar ourselves to 65. In the end result jazz will have 2000 pilots, AC will have 3500. I would say that jazz is now a significant size and provides outstanding leverage for management to fight acpa against alpa. And the minute AC mainline is weak in any form jazz will grow . ALso Jazz is there now in its size as a minimum for a long time and will keep the working conditions below "standard" for the forseeable future.
For the guys retireing right now, most of them have made good money , flown good equipment, been capt for long time,hired with 500 hrs and will have great pensions-not affected by ccaa thanks to the "ACE " family which i guess jazz is a part of sort of/for now. They have no idea what its like for the hoars as they are not one-it does not effect them so why should they care. They have created the mess we are in as they control the union. In my opinion a career at jazz(which is becoming a airline of sig. size and low pay) and the botttom ranks at AC mainline (pay is tied to the jazz)is a crapshoot and the younger pilots who have nothing to do with any of the past bad blood have to work out a career somehow .

[Red1]

So here it is, a guy looking from the outside in, know on the inside. I don't really understand all the politics behind the whole situation, nor do I want to . Too much history and not enough vision for the future from all parties. Smart enough to know not to believe all the crap that is put on the internet and took the first job that came around, which was Jazz. No really goals of going to mainline, but if they called I would entertain the idea. Why Jazz, they called first, in this industry to be picky is to be that guy you all know who is holding out for his one dream job, and never gets it. It's nice to say if you only want mainline don't got to Jazz, and if you want WestJet do this, but lets face the reality is with so few choices in Canada, How can you turn down one if it's not exactly what you were looking for. In the end I would rather be that guy on the RJ going Damn I guess I missed the boat at AC, then the guy flogging around the north saying Damn I missed my chance every where.

The reason I say this is because we here so many rumors on here about Jazz guys going to mainline, some I am sure are true some not. But really who knows, who knows if those just hired at Jazz will get a chance at Mainline once they hit their seniority number or not.

[redteamboy]

To get back to the original question, they are not at number 1100 yet because I'm before that and they haven't called my ugly little ass or many senior to me.