Westjet Delta JV

[thenoflyzone]

I don't see cabotage there...

SEA-JFK via YYZ?

You could do that whole trip on an American or Canadian carrier or a combination of. That's all 3rd and 4th freedom stuff...

Cabotage would be AC operating SEA-JFK direct.

Cabotage is a Canadian airline selling a seat to a passenger from point A to point B, both of which are in the USA. Non stop, or one stop, it doesn't matter. It's not allowed.

You can book both legs separately (SEA-YYZ, YYZ-JFK), but not SEA-JFK.

[Splash]

US DOT approves Joint Venture.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-delt ... ce=twitter

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0154-0049

[mbav8r]

At least now you can assume Swoop won’t take a bunch of the US trans border flying from you!

[TheStig]

Would anyone on the inside care to comment on this. What does it mean for the future of Swoop? Why was it excluded? Was there any indication that ALPA was involved given both groups are represented by the same union? I'm not looking to incite any arguments just curious as to what the consensus is at this point.

[Airbrake]

Would anyone on the inside care to comment on this. What does it mean for the future of Swoop? Why was it excluded? Was there any indication that ALPA was involved given both groups are represented by the same union? I'm not looking to incite any arguments just curious as to what the consensus is at this point.

Here is the DOT response and rational.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... -10-13.pdf

[Go Guns]

What does it mean for the future of Swoop? Why was it excluded?

Reading the Order from the US DOT, it sounds like they like the idea of the potentially aggressive ULCC competition Swoop would bring to the transborder market, and they feel that including Swoop in the joint venture could negatively impact its growth.

tl:dr -> They (US gov) like Swoop, and feel it will grow better outside this JV

[TheStig]

Airbrake, thanks for sharing that link, there was a lot of interesting information in there. I knew the YYZ-LGA was big, but I had no idea it was that big! That Swoop was set up to be completely separate from Westjet certainly has it's positives and negatives but doesn't lend itself to joint ventures and you can see why it was excluded. I can't imagine that Delta loves the idea that their partner has a separate revenue stream outside of the arrangement.

[Spaceshuttle]

Will Swoop be doing any of USA work or just Caribbean Flights for Westjet due to Delta? They will do good in Caribbean I would think...

https://westernaviationnews.com/2020/10 ... p-toronto/

[spinaxis]

Wasn't there a mass protest across Canada today about the Swoop YYZ flying?

No one should be talking about how "good" Swoop may do here or there. It's just like Rouge, belongs in the trash bin and only continues to help devalue our profession.



Sad.

[Spaceshuttle]

I assume you don't work for Swoop or Rouge?

Didn't see a mass protest just a press release as quoted in my post. Asked a simple question

[spinaxis]

I assume you don't work for Swoop or Rouge?

Didn't see a mass protest just a press release as quoted in my post. Asked a simple question

Nope. By choice.

I think there was a protest today at a bunch of airport. No idea how well attended it was or if anyone even saw them since the airports are pretty dead these days.

[Blue42]

I assume you don't work for Swoop or Rouge?

Didn't see a mass protest just a press release as quoted in my post. Asked a simple question

Nope. By choice.

I think there was a protest today at a bunch of airport. No idea how well attended it was or if anyone even saw them since the airports are pretty dead these days.

There were informational pickets by ALPA at 3 airports today, YYZ, YYC, & YVR. For good reason as Swoop also operated 6 aircraft today, when the latest MOA clearly restricts them to 4 tails in Oct, 5 tails in Nov and then 6 tails until end of March.

[Airbrake]

https://westernaviationnews.com/2020/10 ... nsion/?amp

I’d say from what I am hearing was about 50-75 in YYC & YVR. YYZ maybe around 100.

[Spaceshuttle]

Are they leasing or buying planes? I thought they had 4, how big can they grow?

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Are they leasing or buying planes? I thought they had 4, how big can they grow?

They are limited to 4 tails in the month of October as part of an agreement that the union made with the company.

They still have one 737-800 on order with nine currently in the fleet.

[Spaceshuttle]

I understand now, just coming up to speed on what was the main problem.

Yes, if they had an agreement on fleet size agreed to by both parties,then exceeded it, that is not acceptable! Unfortunately they probably can staff easily with so many guys/girls on the street now. Is Westjet adding planes as well?

[spinaxis]

I understand now, just coming up to speed on what was the main problem.

Yes, if they had an agreement on fleet size agreed to by both parties,then exceeded it, that is not acceptable! Unfortunately they probably can staff easily with so many guys/girls on the street now. Is Westjet adding planes as well?

Ask Air Canada pilots how that's working out for them with their scope grievance with CPA flying exceeding the maximum. By a lot. These companies don't give two shits about contracts anymore, they know the government will never hold them to it and arbitrators have been awarding in corporations favor for too long and they know they can get away with murder.

[vrefplus5]

Spaceship, spinaxis may be right. The MOA scope as agreed to by the pilots to assist during this downturn, appears on the surface to be interpreted differently by the WestJet group.

[Oscar]

How did the picketing go?
Saw a news article there were 50ish in YYC.
How about YYZ, YVR and any others?

[Oscar]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7421503/west ... p-calgary/

[Spaceshuttle]

Hard to argue that, it appears pretty plain who is not abiding by the agreement. I would think ALPA would not be pleased.

[Spaceshuttle]

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/onex- ... 02872.html

Thats good to hear, should help with return to normal wages argument when they say they are broke!

[tsgas]

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/onex- ... 02872.html

That good to hear, should help with return to normal wages argument when they say they are broke!

Westjet has to compete with other companies within the Onex portfolio. If Westjet is a drain , don't count on a fat bonus any time soon.

[Splash]

Am I reading this correctly, Delta and Westjet have withdrawn their application for a JV ?

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0154-0056

[Airbrake]

Am I reading this correctly, Delta and Westjet have withdrawn their application for a JV ?

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0154-0056

That is correct. I’ve read the full reply to DOT and the 3 main points are - LGA slot sale, Swoop carve out and Interline requirement.
They state that the competition won’t be limited to LGA and that AC/Rouge has never had the same requirements.

Can’t post it here, I’m sure it’ll be found online soon enough.