VIDEO : Student Pilot Crashes the Cessna on touchdown (Nov 2019)

[photofly]

If a group refers to themselves by a particular name, it is often considered a sign of respect to refer to them with the same terminology.

Considered. By you. But you are not of that group. For as long as you promote your opinion over that of the group, then you’re the problem.

In an ideal world where there is no racism, everybody will be treated the same, regardless of skin color or sex.

Your ideal. For as long as you strive to promote your ideal, instead of listening to others, you’re the problem.

....? I honestly don't see it.

No, *you* don’t. If you could...

Reservering a word for a particular population group is wrong.

In your opinion. But your opinion on how minorities refer to themselves is entirely irrelevant.

[digits_]

In an ideal world where there is no racism, everybody will be treated the same, regardless of skin color or sex.

Your ideal.

What world would you consider ideal in regards to racism?

[photofly]

I will let people who have suffered and continue to suffer from discrimination tell me what an ideal world looks like. I honestly don’t have the life experience to know better than them.

Let me rephrase: how does splitting up the population into a group of people that can call black people "n*ggers", and a group that can't, help to abolish racism. What does this solve? How does this lead to any solution for the racial issues we are having? I honestly don't see it

The thrust of your argument is that black people who want to refer to themselves in a way that they don’t want you to replicate, are impeding others from fixing racism, and are therefore responsible for it.

Seems to me a good start to fixing racism is to stop looking for ways to hold minorities responsible for your/our failures, and look in a mirror instead.

[digits_]

I will let people who have suffered and continue to suffer from discrimination tell me what an ideal world looks like. I honestly don’t have the life experience to know better than them.

Since you can't talk to every single one of them, such an approach is doomed to fail.

I think it's fair to assume the majority of them would demand equal treatment by everyone, and especially by people in power. If, for example in social situations, the race of the other person you are dealing with defines how you behave, you're probably pretty close to racism.

If this would be false, better communication is required and protests such as Black Lives Matter might be missing the mark.

Let me rephrase: how does splitting up the population into a group of people that can call black people "n*ggers", and a group that can't, help to abolish racism. What does this solve? How does this lead to any solution for the racial issues we are having? I honestly don't see it

The thrust of your argument is that black people who want to refer to themselves in a way that they don’t want you to replicate, are impeding others from fixing racism, and are therefore responsible for it.

Seems to me a good start to fixing racism is to stop looking for ways to hold minorities responsible for your/our failures, and look in a mirror instead.

I am not looking for a way to hold minorities responsible. This is not causing racism, but if equal treatment is the goal, then treating people differently by the color of the skin by deciding who can say what, is preventing it from truly happening.

Legally, a lot of progress has been made in the past century. There are, as far as I know, no laws that prohibit you from doing something based on the color of your skin.

Sociologically, racism is still very much alive. This can most likely not be fixed by rules. It is a slow process, with lots of intangible aspects. Hearing/reading how a minority group refers to themselves with a term that other people get villainize for for using it, does not help to subconciously reinforce the thought that skin color doesn't matter.

[photofly]

I will let people who have suffered and continue to suffer from discrimination tell me what an ideal world looks like. I honestly don’t have the life experience to know better than them.

Since you can't talk to every single one of them, such an approach is doomed to fail.

Uh-huh. Too many people to ask, or too difficult, so you ask the other white guy in this conversation. Now he won’t tell you, so perhaps you should just substitute your opinion of what minorities should want.

I think it's fair to assume...

And as if by magic!

If this would be false, better communication is required and protests such as Black Lives Matter might be missing the mark.

Right. It’s everyone else’s fault for not communicating clearly enough. Nothing to do with you not listening, eh?

I am not looking for a way to hold minorities responsible.

Great!

then treating people differently by the color of the skin by deciding who can say what, is preventing it from truly happening.

Legally, a lot of progress has been made in the past century. There are, as far as I know, no laws that prohibit you from doing something based on the color of your skin.

Sociologically, racism is still very much alive. This can most likely not be fixed by rules. It is a slow process, with lots of intangible aspects. Hearing/reading how a minority group refers to themselves with a term that other people get villainize for for using it, does not help to subconciously reinforce the thought that skin color doesn't matter.

Yup, minorities are just willfully not cooperating in your attempts to give them what you think their perfect world should look like, so you really you have nothing to learn. Keep your eyes and ears firmly shut and your mouth wide open, just like they are now, and everything will be ok.

[digits_]

You're drawing some really ... interesting ... conclusions there photofly.

I don't even know what your skin color is. I never told you what mine is either. I am trying to have a discussion to try and figure out how the racism issue could be improved/solved, and as soon as someting critical is being asked, you are assuming I'm white, and I am being accused of being the problem, of not wanting to listen, ... because I dared to claim that I interpret the goal of BLM protests as that black people want to be treated equally?

then treating people differently by the color of the skin by deciding who can say what, is preventing it from truly happening.

Legally, a lot of progress has been made in the past century. There are, as far as I know, no laws that prohibit you from doing something based on the color of your skin.

Sociologically, racism is still very much alive. This can most likely not be fixed by rules. It is a slow process, with lots of intangible aspects. Hearing/reading how a minority group refers to themselves with a term that other people get villainize for for using it, does not help to subconciously reinforce the thought that skin color doesn't matter.

Yup, minorities are just willfully not cooperating in your attempts to give them what you think their perfect world should look like, so you really you have nothing to learn. Keep your eyes and ears firmly shut and your mouth wide open, just like they are now, and everything will be ok.

And here I am engaging, or attempting to engage, attempting to learn, in a discussion with someone who seems to have an opposing view, yet refuses to actually explain his position. I guess it is easier to just label everyone as "the problem" instead of actually communicating.

Let me ask you again: do you think that using a special name that can only be used by members of your community improves the integration of said community with another community?

If we further assume that we both are white, that the racism problem is at least partially caused by members of the white community, and that we want to get rid of racism, is it therefore not important how the white community interprets recent events, and how they interpret the use of such names? If you think I misinterpret what racism is, or what BLM tries to achieve, then please, enlighten me. If we both think the same, and it turns out to be incorrect, then it is important this gets picked up by the black community such that communication can be improved.

Refusing to discuss the issue because some assumptions might be incorrect, doesn't help anyone. Racism comes from assumptions that people make. Everyone acts starting from what they believe is true or wrong. So tell me your assumptions, and tell my why the use of the n-word is beneficial to getting rid of racism.

[Dh8Classic]

Once again. Please explain to me the reason that tens of thousands of people who really want to come to this country automatically get extra points in the hiring process in this country even though they haven't set foot in this country yet. At what point do they become victims of racism. The moment their flight touches down. When they get that coveted citizenship. Prior to arriving here.

[iflyforpie]

This discussion reminds me of this.

https://youtu.be/SbPG73F3Cck

[rookiepilot]

Once again. Please explain to me the reason that tens of thousands of people who really want to come to this country automatically get extra points in the hiring process in this country even though they haven't set foot in this country yet. At what point do they become victims of racism. The moment their flight touches down. When they get that coveted citizenship. Prior to arriving here.

If this is true it's a valid concern. I'm not talking about that, but it is valid.
Take that up with your MP, factually, or your employer. I have no problem with you doing so. It's called properly raising issues through channels. I've written my MP a few times.

Don't become someone who screams at friends of mine in a store while waiting in line, screaming at Chinese people for "bringing the virus here" and -- I quote -- "Go back to your f------- country". And this happens A LOT. That is not the way to handle it.

We are better than this.

BLM is mainly in the US. And why is that? Systemic discrimination is worse there. Yet I see a lot of people making racist claims that BLM are terrorists, because they are protesting. I think a of their concerns are about treatment by police, and housing discrimination, and they are right about those.

We are better, and fairer. We want to stay that way.

[photofly]

You're drawing some really ... interesting ... conclusions there photofly.

I don't even know what your skin color is. I never told you what mine is either. I am trying to have a discussion to try and figure out how the racism issue could be improved/solved, and as soon as someting critical is being asked, you are assuming I'm white, and I am being accused of being the problem, of not wanting to listen, ... because I dared to claim that I interpret the goal of BLM protests as that black people want to be treated equally?

I say you’re part of the problem because you dictate conditions on what members of a minority want to call themselves, and how they want others to address them. That’s not your right, and for as long as you think you have a valid opinion on that subject, you will continue to be part of the problem. Then there’s the matter of your white-splaining how their failure to accept your conditions on their use of the n-word makes it oh-so-hard for them to be helped by you.

I certainly don’t detect a whole lot of learning going on.

[DadoBlade]

I thought this was about a student pilot landing an aircraft...

[rookiepilot]

I thought this was about a student pilot landing an aircraft...

Why don't you read the obscene comments posted about the pilot on the YouTube video, and here, and then we can all decide what it's about, or should be about.

If YouTube took down racist comments, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I guess it's ok with them, though.

What if this was your kid, Dadoblade?

Student pilot crashes a plane, he's called , here, "son of Asiana". Funny.

AC pilots come within 50 feet of the world's worst air disaster...and the response:

"Nothing to see here".

Must be a coincidence.

[AuxBatOn]

Once again. Please explain to me the reason that tens of thousands of people who really want to come to this country automatically get extra points in the hiring process in this country even though they haven't set foot in this country yet. At what point do they become victims of racism. The moment their flight touches down. When they get that coveted citizenship. Prior to arriving here.

If this is true it's a valid concern. I'm not talking about that, but it is valid.
Take that up with your MP, factually, or your employer. I have no problem with you doing so. It's called properly raising issues through channels. I've written my MP a few times.

Don't become someone who screams at friends of mine in a store while waiting in line, screaming at Chinese people for "bringing the virus here" and -- I quote -- "Go back to your f------- country". And this happens A LOT. That is not the way to handle it.

We are better than this.

BLM is mainly in the US. And why is that? Systemic discrimination is worse there. Yet I see a lot of people making racist claims that BLM are terrorists, because they are protesting. I think a of their concerns are about treatment by police, and housing discrimination, and they are right about those.

We are better, and fairer. We want to stay that way.

Giving more opportunities for under-represented groups is called Affirmative Action and is well anchored in the Charter. It is legal and is a mean to increase diversity in an organization (which will promote diversity of thought and different point of views in the long term). There are several examples showing that Affirmative Actions work.

[digits_]

Then there’s the matter of your white-splaining ...

Oh please. Explaning something is white-splaining now? Using colored terminology like this (pun intended) tells me we still have a long way to go.

I say you’re part of the problem because you dictate conditions on what members of a minority want to call themselves, and how they want others to address them. That’s not your right, and for as long as you think you have a valid opinion on that subject, you will continue to be part of the problem.

...how their failure to accept your conditions on their use of the n-word makes it oh-so-hard for them to be helped by you.

I certainly don’t detect a whole lot of learning going on.

You're turning things around here. I don't put restrictions on the n-word. Either use it, or don't. "They" put restrictions on when "we" get to use the n-word. Not the other way around.

Which once again demonstrates the issue: if you limit groups on which words you can use, it turns into a "them" vs "us" thing. Which is exactly what needs to be avoided.

I certainly don’t detect a whole lot of learning going on.

I'm still waiting to learn how the restrictions on the n-word based on your skin color will help to get rid of racism. You can attack how I try to explain things, how it's not my right have an opinion on the use of the word, but you fail to address my core question. Whether white people are allowed to have an opninion or not, I hope you'll agree that a lot of people *do* hold an opnion about the use of the word. Which implies that it does affect the way one thinks about other people, and that in turn may influence how people act.

It's also pretty obvious from your posts that you too have an opnion about the use of the n-word. The idealistic -for the sake of argument- "it's up to them" will not solve the issue. Understanding the other opinions out there and how to react to that, will be a more succesful road to a solution.

[photofly]

Mouth wide open, with so many words coming out. Ears firmly shut.

[rookiepilot]

If this is true it's a valid concern. I'm not talking about that, but it is valid.
Take that up with your MP, factually, or your employer. I have no problem with you doing so. It's called properly raising issues through channels. I've written my MP a few times.

Giving more opportunities for under-represented groups is called Affirmative Action and is well anchored in the Charter. It is legal and is a mean to increase diversity in an organization (which will promote diversity of thought and different point of views in the long term). There are several examples showing that Affirmative Actions work.

I respect the intent of this.

I do wonder if in places it's gone too far. There is a balance here, and it isn't by teaching the sheer act of being born a white male is somehow toxic, and places -- think universities-- that bluntly say in essence "white men need not apply".

In places it's gone there. That's way over the line.

I have a number of friends of other races. They have enriched my life immeasurably. Not one of them has ever endorsed affirmative action, at least to me. They only wish to be treated equally, fairly, and with the respect they show others. Mostly, that happens (here in the Toronto area -- it's one of the great positives of this region, the peaceful multiculturalism)

Some behaviours though, can't be legislated.

[Zaibatsu]

Student pilot crashes a plane, he's called , here, "son of Asiana". Funny.

AC pilots come within 50 feet of the world's worst air disaster...and the response:

"Nothing to see here".

Must be a coincidence.

The difference between those two incidents is literally night and day. Closed runway vs open runway. Rested crew with training captains on board vs tired crew. An actual crash vs several seconds before a crash.

Being within 50 feet of complete disaster is just another day in Asia. We only hear about the crashes.

[complexintentions]

lol

This thread is so Canadian it makes my teeth hurt.

Try living somewhere outside Canada for awhile where your apologetic white ass is very much a minority. Say, the Far or Middle East. South Asia.

And you'll very quickly realize comments that trigger earnest pearl-clutching in Canada are NOTHING compared to the casual racism shown by virtually every culture to virtually every other one.

We are tribal. We'll beat each other up based on which damn hockey team we cheer for. Of course something as distinguishing as skin colour will always be contentious. Only complete idiots think it will ever be anything but thus or can be legislated, educated, or shamed into non-existence.

Deal with it.

The kid did a terrible job attempting to land the simplest aircraft in the world to fly without physically harming himself. It was funny.

The End.

[AuxBatOn]

lol

This thread is so Canadian it makes my teeth hurt.

Try living somewhere outside Canada for awhile where your apologetic white ass is very much a minority. Say, the Far or Middle East. South Asia.

And you'll very quickly realize comments that trigger earnest pearl-clutching in Canada are NOTHING compared to the casual racism shown by virtually every culture to virtually every other one.

We are tribal. We'll beat each other up based on which damn hockey team we cheer for. Of course something as distinguishing as skin colour will always be contentious. Only complete idiots think it will ever be anything but thus or can be legislated, educated, or shamed into non-existence.

Deal with it.

The kid did a terrible job attempting to land the simplest aircraft in the world to fly without physically harming himself. It was funny.

The End.

Because others do it makes it right? That’ll bring you far in life...

[Castorero]

edit

[digits_]

Because others do it makes it right? That’ll bring you far in life...

I actually believe it will... It's often morally wrong, at time despicable, but I do believe that people who use that as benchmark for "right" and "wrong" do end up further than people who live by a "morally better" set of rules.

It would make things a lot easier if I could switch of my moral compass every now and then and just "do what others do"...

[rookiepilot]

Because others do it makes it right? That’ll bring you far in life...

I actually believe it will... It's often morally wrong, at time despicable, but I do believe that people who use that as benchmark for "right" and "wrong" do end up further than people who live by a "morally better" set of rules.

Good for them.
Relative moral followers -- another word is sheeple. Cowards.

At the end of your life, all you have is your character, honour, and reputation, to stand for what is right.
No one else's racist views of morality will ever define that for me.
If it costs me, I don't care.

[digits_]

Because others do it makes it right? That’ll bring you far in life...

I actually believe it will... It's often morally wrong, at time despicable, but I do believe that people who use that as benchmark for "right" and "wrong" do end up further than people who live by a "morally better" set of rules.

Good for them.
Relative moral followers -- another word is sheeple. Cowards.

At the end of your life, all you have is your character, honour, and reputation, to stand for what is right.
No one else's racist views of morality will ever define that for me.
If it costs me, I don't care.

[PilotDAR]

I've been lazy (or maybe wise) and have not read all of this thread. I'm not understanding the protracted discussion about racism and morals in respect of a student blundering off a runway in a 172. I'm afraid to ask what I'm missing here!

[photofly]

It was a slow weekend.