The clubhouse.....

[Squaretail]

The most obvious arguments against posting under your real name, is that given the nature of the internet without some corroborating data also being posted to confirm it, you still have no certainty someone is who they say they are. If someone was of a particularly spiteful nature, it would be easy to create accounts falsely and do a lot of damage before things were straightened out. Among other things.

As a pilot, a certain amount of being well known has led to a lot of trouble over the years. Suffice to say that I wouldn't trust a bunch of other online personas to mete out "justice" as they saw fit here.

One should note that people also come to places like this to blow off a bit of steam, just like they go to bars, or anywhere else, and I don't think this should be closed to that, nor should anyone be tarred and feathered over it. Especially not permanently.

Lastly I would say that when it comes to arguing, I would rather the strength of my argument stand over my credentials.

It has also been my experience that its not anonymity that makes one an asshole, that's already there to begin with, and the revelation of what may be someone's true name doesn't change that behavior.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The most obvious arguments against posting under your real name, is that given the nature of the internet without some corroborating data also being posted to confirm it, you still have no certainty someone is who they say they are. If someone was of a particularly spiteful nature, it would be easy to create accounts falsely and do a lot of damage before things were straightened out. Among other things.

As a pilot, a certain amount of being well known has led to a lot of trouble over the years. Suffice to say that I wouldn't trust a bunch of other online personas to mete out "justice" as they saw fit here.

One should note that people also come to places like this to blow off a bit of steam, just like they go to bars, or anywhere else, and I don't think this should be closed to that, nor should anyone be tarred and feathered over it. Especially not permanently.

Lastly I would say that when it comes to arguing, I would rather the strength of my argument stand over my credentials.

It has also been my experience that its not anonymity that makes one an asshole, that's already there to begin with, and the revelation of what may be someone's true name doesn't change that behavior.

/\ + 1

I would also note that if you are retired from flying or don’t depend on flying to make your living then you have a lot less to lose by posting using your real name. If you are in the industry a post by someone who’s only intent is to hurt and which contains inaccurate/incomplete information or is just an out right lie, can do real damage....

[rookiepilot]

The most obvious arguments against posting under your real name, is that given the nature of the internet without some corroborating data also being posted to confirm it, you still have no certainty someone is who they say they are. If someone was of a particularly spiteful nature, it would be easy to create accounts falsely and do a lot of damage before things were straightened out. Among other things.

As a pilot, a certain amount of being well known has led to a lot of trouble over the years. Suffice to say that I wouldn't trust a bunch of other online personas to mete out "justice" as they saw fit here.

One should note that people also come to places like this to blow off a bit of steam, just like they go to bars, or anywhere else, and I don't think this should be closed to that, nor should anyone be tarred and feathered over it. Especially not permanently.

Lastly I would say that when it comes to arguing, I would rather the strength of my argument stand over my credentials.

It has also been my experience that its not anonymity that makes one an asshole, that's already there to begin with, and the revelation of what may be someone's true name doesn't change that behavior.

/\ + 1

I would also note that if you are retired from flying or don’t depend on flying to make your living then you have a lot less to lose by posting using your real name. If you are in the industry a post by someone who’s only intent is to hurt and which contains inaccurate/incomplete information or is just an out right lie, can do real damage....

So we give those who attack posters regarding their divorces when someone doesn't agree with them?

We all know about that one. The attacker is still here. The experienced pilot who got attacked, I don't see him posting anymore.

That's wrong, and anyone who doesn't stand up vocally to that behavior is a coward.

Since cowardice is the rule, not the exception in standing up to bullies, I say the threat of having your real name revealed is a worthwhile measure.

Don't trash and troll individuals like a predator? Got nothing to worry about!

I respect you BPF. Would fly with you any day. But strongly disagree.

[Squaretail]

Don't trash and troll individuals like a predator? Got nothing to worry about!

No, you do have something to worry about, if you work in the industry that is. In my experience, when dealing with other pilots, and especially the regulator - who patrols this site btw, ask me how I know -you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Personal attacks are one thing, and names being known certainly doesn't stop people from doing that, finding yourself in potentially defending one's self legally on what may have been insinuated, by again parties whom you have no way of actually knowing who they are online, is a foolhardy position to put yourself in, regardless of how "brave" you feel posting your particulars here is.

I'm not sure how to illustrate the above to you. If I was to say my real name is Jimmy Joe Tallfellow the 3rd, what proof have you to say whether that is true or not?

[trey kule]

Ok, I will ask:

How do you know?

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Don't trash and troll individuals like a predator? Got nothing to worry about!

Please define "trash", "troll", and "predator". I guarantee you there will be as many opinions on that as there are members here.

The reality is that this will never happen. Requiring real names will simply cause a great majority of people to pack up and leave, whether you like that or not.

Were there a private forum here, I would consider identifying myself there. There may actually be value in that. It at least is a choice people could make, rather than retroactively changing the agreement everyone signed up under.

[CpnCrunch]

So we give those who attack posters regarding their divorces when someone doesn't agree with them?

We all know about that one. The attacker is still here. The experienced pilot who got attacked, I don't see him posting anymore.

That's wrong, and anyone who doesn't stand up vocally to that behavior is a coward.

Since cowardice is the rule, not the exception in standing up to bullies, I say the threat of having your real name revealed is a worthwhile measure.

Don't trash and troll individuals like a predator? Got nothing to worry about!

I respect you BPF. Would fly with you any day. But strongly disagree.

It's possible to point out people's bad behaviour without threatening to reveal people's real names (which in itself is bullying).

[rookiepilot]

Then -- I expect if the community is serious about this being a respectful clubhouse -- that being, people can disagree on many things --- the NEXT time someone is Personally attacked as to Who they are -- not what they believe is good flying habits -- the "clubhouse" is an illusion.

Or AvCan can follow Twitter and create a BLOCKED function. Then those who attack people's marriages, or my accident, or anything else, --- I recall BPF getting trolled a lot awhile back --- get cut off from all discussion.

I think we all know where a fair line of basic respect lies. This isn't hard.

Want to run your mouth that way, on my Twitter feed? You get blocked, and don't get to read the productive stuff.

How about it? Let's have a a view on that option?

Or maybe we'd like to continue seeing a million more threads disintegrate because there is no cost to being a predator.

Is that what the community wants? Fine.

Just don't call it a clubhouse.

[tsgarp]

Then -- I expect if the community is serious about this being a respectful clubhouse -- that being, people can disagree on many things --- the NEXT time someone is Personally attacked as to Who they are -- not what they believe is good flying habits -- the "clubhouse" is an illusion.

Or AvCan can follow Twitter and create a BLOCKED function. Then those who attack people's marriages, or my accident, or anything else, --- I recall BPF getting trolled a lot awhile back --- get cut off from all discussion.

I think we all know where the line is. This isn't hard.

Want to run your mouth that way, on my Twitter feed? You get blocked, and don't get to read the productive stuff.

Hoe about it? Let's have a a view on that option?

Cancel culture is a cure that is much worse than any disease it treats. Listening to asshats is the price that must be paid for open exchange of ideas.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Then -- I expect if the community is serious about this being a respectful clubhouse -- that being, people can disagree on many things --- the NEXT time someone is Personally attacked as to Who they are -- not what they believe is good flying habits -- the "clubhouse" is an illusion.

Or AvCan can follow Twitter and create a BLOCKED function. Then those who attack people's marriages, or my accident, or anything else, --- I recall BPF getting trolled a lot awhile back --- get cut off from all discussion.

I think we all know where the line is. This isn't hard.

Want to run your mouth that way, on my Twitter feed? You get blocked, and don't get to read the productive stuff.

Hoe about it? Let's have a a view on that option?

Cancel culture is a cure that is much worse than any disease it treats. Listening to asshats is the price that must be paid for open exchange of ideas.

I don't believe rookiepilot is talking about "cancelling". I think he means an individually controllable block list, so should I decide that rookiepilot is a complete fuckwad (or if I realize I tend to spout off at the mouth after his posts even), I can decide for myself not to see his posts any longer - without forcing that opinion on everyone. If enough people do that to enough fuckwads, the overall level of troll will decrease.

I would completely be in favour of such a function.

[digits_]

Then -- I expect if the community is serious about this being a respectful clubhouse -- that being, people can disagree on many things --- the NEXT time someone is Personally attacked as to Who they are -- not what they believe is good flying habits -- the "clubhouse" is an illusion.

Or AvCan can follow Twitter and create a BLOCKED function. Then those who attack people's marriages, or my accident, or anything else, --- I recall BPF getting trolled a lot awhile back --- get cut off from all discussion.

I think we all know where the line is. This isn't hard.

Want to run your mouth that way, on my Twitter feed? You get blocked, and don't get to read the productive stuff.

Hoe about it? Let's have a a view on that option?

Cancel culture is a cure that is much worse than any disease it treats. Listening to asshats is the price that must be paid for open exchange of ideas.

I don't believe rookiepilot is talking about "cancelling". I think he means an individually controllable block list, so should I decide that rookiepilot is a complete fuckwad (or if I realize I tend to spout off at the mouth after his posts even), I can decide for myself not to see his posts any longer - without forcing that opinion on everyone. If enough people do that to enough fuckwads, the overall level of troll will decrease.

I would completely be in favour of such a function.

Something similar is already available. You can click on someone's profile name and then "Add foe". Not sure about the details, but sounds similar.

[Squaretail]

Ok, I will ask:

How do you know?

Now we're getting into some serious existentialism! Possibly I don't know! If I don't know, then how can you possibly know?

The point is I feel that one has to accept that this is a public internet forum, with all the glory and terror that entails. What some people really want is the privileges of a private forum, which will always have the penalty of attracting less people, and obviously be less active and interesting.

I mean this experiment has already been conducted in another to be unnamed place. It sees less traffic for a reason.

the "clubhouse" is an illusion.

It always has been. Even in the real world. If you want to assemble a large group of people who intensely agree with one another, start a cult.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Can confirm.



There is even an option to display the post.

[digits_]

The point is I feel that one has to accept that this is a public internet forum, with all the glory and terror that entails. What some people really want is the privileges of a private forum, which will always have the penalty of attracting less people, and obviously be less active and interesting.

I mean this experiment has already been conducted in another to be unnamed place. It sees less traffic for a reason.

Isn't that one just as private/public as this one? Or are you refering to another experiment?

[digits_]

Can confirm.



There is even an option to display the post.

Well that hurts.

I added you as a friend as a test, and I was expecting daisies, rainbows and unicorns around your posts, but that doesn't seem to happen either.

[youhavecontrol]

In regards to the "clubhouse" in the real world, or online... I was a member of a flying club as a kid and while I didn't really see or understand everything, what I saw didn't exactly give me the greatest impression of the real-world GA community. One of my last memories of that club was when I visited the airshow after getting my commercial license. I was looking forward to catching-up with some of the members. Seeing two of the senior members, both in their late 60's fighting loudly like angry kids in front of a crowd of people while wearing their "volunteer" shirts, because of where one of them parked their airplane had a lasting impact on me. I was embarrassed for them. Some of my friends who flew regularly and professionally even left the club because it was "just an old man's social club." Sometimes I get a similar impression here, but it's not necessarily better in person than online. Aviation by nature has a lot of egos, story telling and comparing.

As for the anonymity, I don't like to say who I am or who I work for because I want to protect my company and myself.

[CpnCrunch]

In regards to the "clubhouse" in the real world, or online... I was a member of a flying club as a kid and while I didn't really see or understand everything, what I saw didn't exactly give me the greatest impression of the real-world GA community. One of my last memories of that club was when I visited the airshow after getting my commercial license. I was looking forward to catching-up with some of the members. Seeing two of the senior members, both in their late 60's fighting loudly like angry kids in front of a crowd of people while wearing their "volunteer" shirts, because of where one of them parked their airplane had a lasting impact on me. I was embarrassed for them. Some of my friends who flew regularly and professionally even left the club because it was "just an old man's social club." Sometimes I get a similar impression here, but it's not necessarily better in person than online. Aviation by nature has a lot of egos, story telling and comparing.

As for the anonymity, I don't like to say who I am or who I work for because I want to protect my company and myself.

Absolutely agree. I've seen absolutely terrible clubs in real-life, with crazy people who threaten violence for imagined transgressions and make up weird shit about members they don't like. It really all comes down to the people in charge. Overall, avcanada seems to have the balance right. The only thing that would be nice would be if the OP of a thread had permission to delete the crud, but I don't know if that is possible in phpbb.

[YYZSaabGuy]

Then -- I expect if the community is serious about this being a respectful clubhouse -- that being, people can disagree on many things --- the NEXT time someone is Personally attacked as to Who they are -- not what they believe is good flying habits -- the "clubhouse" is an illusion.

Or AvCan can follow Twitter and create a BLOCKED function. Then those who attack people's marriages, or my accident, or anything else, --- I recall BPF getting trolled a lot awhile back --- get cut off from all discussion.

I think we all know where the line is. This isn't hard.

Want to run your mouth that way, on my Twitter feed? You get blocked, and don't get to read the productive stuff.

Hoe about it? Let's have a a view on that option?

Cancel culture is a cure that is much worse than any disease it treats. Listening to asshats is the price that must be paid for open exchange of ideas.

Listening to differing opinions, not listening to asshats, is the price that must be paid for the open exchange of ideas.

Rookiepilot is not talking about disrupting the free exchange of ideas, which everyone (depending whose ox is being gored ) supports. He's not talking about canceling posters who may not always make a lot of sense: we're all grownups here and as such presumably have the ability to reconcile conflicting perspectives to arrive at a reasoned conclusion. And he's not talking about cancelling cancel culture.

He's talking about dealing with people who lack self-control or any semblance of discretion, and who cannot help expressing themselves in any but the most negative and ad hominem of ways. Consistently. You know, the kind of disrespectful asshats who managed to get themselves perma-banned from here and now spend their days dripping venom and indulging their world-view over on that other place.

And he's 100% correct.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

As for the anonymity, I don't like to say who I am or who I work for because I want to protect my company and myself.

Emphasis mine. Also a very valid point I hadn't considered. There may be excellent reasons for not identifying yourself here to protect your company, especially for those of us who have advanced to management.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Well that hurts.

I added you as a friend as a test, and I was expecting daisies, rainbows and unicorns around your posts, but that doesn't seem to happen either.

I'm sorry, what? I can't see your post

[rookiepilot]

Then -- I expect if the community is serious about this being a respectful clubhouse -- that being, people can disagree on many things --- the NEXT time someone is Personally attacked as to Who they are -- not what they believe is good flying habits -- the "clubhouse" is an illusion.

Or AvCan can follow Twitter and create a BLOCKED function. Then those who attack people's marriages, or my accident, or anything else, --- I recall BPF getting trolled a lot awhile back --- get cut off from all discussion.

I think we all know where the line is. This isn't hard.

Want to run your mouth that way, on my Twitter feed? You get blocked, and don't get to read the productive stuff.

Hoe about it? Let's have a a view on that option?

Cancel culture is a cure that is much worse than any disease it treats. Listening to asshats is the price that must be paid for open exchange of ideas.

I don't believe rookiepilot is talking about "cancelling". I think he means an individually controllable block list, so should I decide that rookiepilot is a complete fuckwad (or if I realize I tend to spout off at the mouth after his posts even), I can decide for myself not to see his posts any longer - without forcing that opinion on everyone. If enough people do that to enough fuckwads, the overall level of troll will decrease.

I would completely be in favour of such a function.

Correct, as is YYZ as to my intentions.
We can do better, without losing spirited debates. All I'm saying.

I have 1800 followers on Twitter, for some bizarre reason. It's a business / trading feed.
I've had to block maybe 5 people in several years.
Because the option exists, and maybe people want to hear my useless blather, it's rarely needed. Others have upwards of 20,000 followers, and the same applies.

I never block for disagreements, only extreme, ugly, personal rudeness.

[challenger_nami]

If a person does not have their identity listed, then that person does not have to worry about being bullied about his/her divorce.... or previous accident, or what have you.

Only ideas have to be shared on this forum, in accordance with AvCanada’s Posting etiquette. And the person participating in the website, must have the tolerance for the viewed content ... and also for his/her ideas to be FAIRLY scrutinized.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Only ideas have to be shared in this forum, in accordance with AvCanada’s Posting etiquette. And the person participating in the website, must have the tolerance for the viewed content for his/her ideas to be scrutinized.

That is the nub of the problem. There is a subset of posters who take any disagreement with what they said as a personal insult and respond by attacking the posters. There also seems to be a strong correlation between those folks and a complete inability to admit they are could ever wrong about anything and look at every issue with a completely closed mind.

Personally I think the moderators have done a pretty good job of banning those individuals that are egregious offenders. However there are always going to those who push the boundaries and for those I think ignoring then rather than engaging them is the best strategy.

Personally I also prioritize the posts I look at by the poster. There are some that I just skip over and others that I will always carefully read.

At the end of the day I get enough out of Avcanada to make it worth reading. There was a period in the past where I stopped looking at or contributing to the site because it had largely been taken over by haters, trolls and flamers. Fortunately the moderators stepped up and largely cleaned things up.

I post in the spirit of paying it forward as I have benefitted from the advice of many talented pilots and AME is the 43 years I have been flying.

[challenger_nami]

@BigPistons,
I totally agree with you.

Cheers to the day when all of us who participate in this forum can work together for the sake of a civil discussion. No matter how much we may disagree.





.

[Squaretail]

So was this all so some people could figure out how to use the Foe list?