ACPA MEC

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
Rooster69
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:06 am

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by Rooster69 »

Montroyal wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:25 pm
Hangry wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:28 pm
throwaway123 wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:57 pm

Some questionable awards for pilots some who took jr reductions. Holding positions they shouldn't be able to when using the seniority of the person who's reduction they're taking. And thereby taking a position that someone with a RIR should have gotten.
I think that’s been explained ad nauseam on the other forum. Or no. Gotta be something nefarious?
Looks like there is a poll on the forum to recall the MEC

Could it finally be time after debacle after debacle?






Ha. Good luck with the recall. Not going to happen.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Montroyal
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:29 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by Montroyal »

Rooster69 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:43 am
Montroyal wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:25 pm
Hangry wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:28 pm

I think that’s been explained ad nauseam on the other forum. Or no. Gotta be something nefarious?
Looks like there is a poll on the forum to recall the MEC

Could it finally be time after debacle after debacle?






Ha. Good luck with the recall. Not going to happen.
95% want a recall...not looking good for you sir...cargo pay cuts faired better...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rooster69
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:06 am

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by Rooster69 »

Polls mean jack. You actually have to get the pilots to vote. Not going to happen
---------- ADS -----------
 
simply_no_one
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:04 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by simply_no_one »

That's what you think.

Just wait.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4120
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by rudder »

simply_no_one wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:37 am That's what you think.

Just wait.
Just follow the procedures outlined in the ACPA Constitution and it will yield a result, either one way or another.

And if you are looking for external legal advice on recalling an MEC CHMN, just call the WJA MEC and see if you can get a volume discount......
---------- ADS -----------
 
thrust set
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:26 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by thrust set »

“ 95% want a recall”

Are you talking about a real poll or something from the “pigpen “ forum? If it’s that latter, that forum has never been the true voice of the total Air Canada pilots. Never has and never will be. Let’s recall someone because a poll of less than 300 pilot’s who voted in favor, says we should.

Nothing to see here, I chatted with a union rep wanting answers about the bid. I walked away satisfied nothing wrong was done.
---------- ADS -----------
 
alkaseltzer
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by alkaseltzer »

I’d take kicking the 787 FO bragging about overtime with a steel toed shiny black boot any day. Or even his Bollywood-wannabe-YouTube cousin flying at Cargojet.

Mike Murray is doing a fine job keeping the ship upright.

The ones who wrote that “open” letter are begging for attention on the Meghan Markle level.
---------- ADS -----------
 
simply_no_one
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:04 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by simply_no_one »

The ones who wrote the letter are some of the only elected representatives who truly understand what their job is.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Hangry
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:05 am

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by Hangry »

alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:38 pm I’d take kicking the 787 FO bragging about overtime with a steel toed shiny black boot any day. Or even his Bollywood-wannabe-YouTube cousin flying at Cargojet.

Ewwwww. You’re gross.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Oxi
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 480
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:33 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by Oxi »

alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:38 pm I’d take kicking the 787 FO bragging about overtime with a steel toed shiny black boot any day. Or even his Bollywood-wannabe-YouTube cousin flying at Cargojet.

Mike Murray is doing a fine job keeping the ship upright.

The ones who wrote that “open” letter are begging for attention on the Meghan Markle level.
if Raj Selvaraj has to post about having come from both.... "very humble beginnings myself, both personally and career wise."
i'd say this person isn't very humble
---------- ADS -----------
 
a220hereicome
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:44 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by a220hereicome »

Montroyal wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:38 am
Rooster69 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:43 am
Montroyal wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:25 pm

Looks like there is a poll on the forum to recall the MEC

Could it finally be time after debacle after debacle?






Ha. Good luck with the recall. Not going to happen.
95% want a recall...not looking good for you sir...cargo pay cuts faired better...
I wouldn't count on it.

The angry birds forum doesn't reflect the sentiment of the (mostly silent) majority. The last few votes have shown that. If that forum was a real barometer, the cargo vote would have been a resounding no. Same for the reopener.

And it's 'fared', not faired.
---------- ADS -----------
 
RippleRock
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:15 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by RippleRock »

a220hereicome wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:18 am
Montroyal wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:38 am
Rooster69 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:43 am


Ha. Good luck with the recall. Not going to happen.
95% want a recall...not looking good for you sir...cargo pay cuts faired better...
I wouldn't count on it.

The angry birds forum doesn't reflect the sentiment of the (mostly silent) majority. The last few votes have shown that. If that forum was a real barometer, the cargo vote would have been a resounding no. Same for the reopener.

And it's 'fared', not faired.
Therein lies the kicker.

Those that are engaged, paying attention and are aware of the historical failing of ACPA and its leadership want this guy out. The bulk of the Membership is either too new to understand how we got to where we are, or too near retirement to give a damn.

MM is exactly like BW and KV; an enabler for further division while putting the good of the Membership second. TA1 and the FOS goat-rope was the wedge that shattered the "ACPA log". MM like his predecessors, is busy ensuring the the remaining pieces are shattered too. Unity is a mess that's getting worse. The Membership should NEVER have been offered a vote on a permanent 10% reduction for 767 flying. The further division that resulted is a violation of our Constitution, as are the onerous working conditions. DT's expulsion was an outrage.

Too few of us understand that. The ones that do, said yes to the pole to remove.
---------- ADS -----------
 
genetic jack hammer
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:50 pm
Location: right here

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by genetic jack hammer »

alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:38 pm Or even his Bollywood-wannabe-YouTube cousin flying at Cargojet.
Oh god, he’s still making those videos?
---------- ADS -----------
 
NotDirty!
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 4:04 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by NotDirty! »

RippleRock wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:18 am Too few of us understand that. The ones that do, said yes to the pole to remove.
This made me laugh! Not sure if it was intentional, but it is a fairly accurate description of how the company has treated us, and all ACPa seems to do is lube the pole! Shouldn’t that make it easier to remove too, though?
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5680
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by altiplano »

alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:38 pm Mike Murray is doing a fine job keeping the ship upright.
You got that right... one in the same... Management/ACPA Reps just blend into one...
---------- ADS -----------
 
yycflyguy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2784
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:18 am

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by yycflyguy »

altiplano wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:06 am
alkaseltzer wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:38 pm Mike Murray is doing a fine job keeping the ship upright.
You got that right... one in the same... Management/ACPA Reps just blend into one...
Took me awhile to get that one. :oops:
---------- ADS -----------
 
RippleRock
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:15 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by RippleRock »

Just a shout out thanks to our MEC for negotiating a 10% cargo discount and a 63 hour LET on pay while the executive suite was awarded an EIGHT figure bonus.

ACPA continues to drop the freaking ball HARD every single time. Will you "yes guys" EVER learn? Clueless. Between the yes camp and our union leadership, a complete train wreck is the only way to define it.

Stick to the contract. Backroom deals with ZERO snapback amount to nothing, and never, ever will.
---------- ADS -----------
 
notwhoyouthinkIam
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

RippleRock wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:05 am Just a shout out thanks to our MEC for negotiating a 10% cargo discount and a 63 hour LET on pay while the executive suite was awarded an EIGHT figure bonus.

ACPA continues to drop the freaking ball HARD every single time. Will you "yes guys" EVER learn? Clueless. Between the yes camp and our union leadership, a complete train wreck is the only way to define it.

Stick to the contract. Backroom deals with ZERO snapback amount to nothing, and never, ever will.
Time to join ALPA.
---------- ADS -----------
 
hithere
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 8:05 am

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by hithere »

or time for Ripplerock to run for a union position
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5680
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by altiplano »

RippleRock wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:05 am Just a shout out thanks to our MEC for negotiating a 10% cargo discount and a 63 hour LET on pay while the executive suite was awarded an EIGHT figure bonus.

ACPA continues to drop the freaking ball HARD every single time. Will you "yes guys" EVER learn? Clueless. Between the yes camp and our union leadership, a complete train wreck is the only way to define it.

Stick to the contract. Backroom deals with ZERO snapback amount to nothing, and never, ever will.
Right on brother.

The yes train just keep porking us. Fucking clueless group.
---------- ADS -----------
 
RippleRock
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:15 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by RippleRock »

hithere wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:43 pm or time for Ripplerock to run for a union position
I pay for my right to complain through union dues, and I pay plenty.

There is no way I would ever attempt a union position. The culture is toxic. Gag orders are the flavor of the day. Comply or be run out. I swear every single individual that has attained either MEC or LEC in the last decade has turned on the Constitution for some reason. Every one. There must be some form of "indoctrination training" through Management meetings that causes a paradigm shift away from the ACPA Constitution. Is it the promise of a Management position for those that excel at shifting "capital" out of our pool, under the guise of "streamlining or efficiency" or by creating further division amongst the group? The history of promotion certainly make this plausible.

However, I think it's simpler. I believe they are "taught" through their "meetings with upper Management" that the pilot groups "compliance" is an integral part of AC's plan to succeed in the market. "If you do this, it will result in more jobs for all,"....don't, and we will cut back, or not grow". Our sense of "self importance" causes us to be just smart enough to understand the concept, but too dumb to see where this will take us. We are also too dumb to understand that the marketing department and air regulations dictate how many aircraft we have, how big we grow, and how much we can fly. Pilots ARE NOT facilitators of anything, we are an essential tool of the trade, like an engine. Each plane needs two. When we understand that we have no direct effect on the direction the Corp chooses to take, nor have any serious effect on that outcome, we will be MILES ahead.

Put the Constitution first. It promotes unity and the betterment of the Membership --as a whole-- as its primary concern. Focus on making the contract better than it was, instead of chopping it into little bits, or ignoring it altogether (MOU). Stop ACPA's "disunity drive" by "SAYING NO" the active promotion of different payscales (cargo) and sub-sections within the pilot body that work under different rules and conditions. When we accepted a 10% pay cut on cargo flying within months of AC awarding upper management with millions in bonusses it's time we took a really close look at what's happening, and what the pilot groups priorities actually are.

Unfortunately, our ACPA leadership whatever their motives, thrive on taking advantage of our "detached" majority. All they have to do is "suggest" a yes on a vote and it passes. Until AC Pilots actually start to really look at, and care about what's happening, nothing will change. Nothing. So why would I waste my time?

I retire soon anyway. The Membership can't seem to open its eyes to the divisive, concessionary path we are on, that will not make one fig of difference to the Corps success or failure. It's an issue they will have to contend with with far longer than I. The reprecussions of the path we are on are huge, but you have to care first. I do, but I'm in the minority.
---------- ADS -----------
 
bcflyer
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1357
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:35 am
Location: Canada

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by bcflyer »

RippleRock wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:57 am
hithere wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:43 pm or time for Ripplerock to run for a union position
I pay for my right to complain through union dues, and I pay plenty.

There is no way I would ever attempt a union position. The culture is toxic. Gag orders are the flavor of the day. Comply or be run out. I swear every single individual that has attained either MEC or LEC in the last decade has turned on the Constitution for some reason. Every one. There must be some form of "indoctrination training" through Management meetings that causes a paradigm shift away from the ACPA Constitution. Is it the promise of a Management position for those that excel at shifting "capital" out of our pool, under the guise of "streamlining or efficiency" or by creating further division amongst the group? The history of promotion certainly make this plausible.

However, I think it's simpler. I believe they are "taught" through their "meetings with upper Management" that the pilot groups "compliance" is an integral part of AC's plan to succeed in the market. "If you do this, it will result in more jobs for all,"....don't, and we will cut back, or not grow". Our sense of "self importance" causes us to be just smart enough to understand the concept, but too dumb to see where this will take us. We are also too dumb to understand that the marketing department and air regulations dictate how many aircraft we have, how big we grow, and how much we can fly. Pilots ARE NOT facilitators of anything, we are an essential tool of the trade, like an engine. Each plane needs two. When we understand that we have no direct effect on the direction the Corp chooses to take, nor have any serious effect on that outcome, we will be MILES ahead.

Put the Constitution first. It promotes unity and the betterment of the Membership --as a whole-- as its primary concern. Focus on making the contract better than it was, instead of chopping it into little bits, or ignoring it altogether (MOU). Stop ACPA's "disunity drive" by "SAYING NO" the active promotion of different payscales (cargo) and sub-sections within the pilot body that work under different rules and conditions. When we accepted a 10% pay cut on cargo flying within months of AC awarding upper management with millions in bonusses it's time we took a really close look at what's happening, and what the pilot groups priorities actually are.

Unfortunately, our ACPA leadership whatever their motives, thrive on taking advantage of our "detached" majority. All they have to do is "suggest" a yes on a vote and it passes. Until AC Pilots actually start to really look at, and care about what's happening, nothing will change. Nothing. So why would I waste my time?

I retire soon anyway. The Membership can't seem to open its eyes to the divisive, concessionary path we are on, that will not make one fig of difference to the Corps success or failure. It's an issue they will have to contend with with far longer than I. The reprecussions of the path we are on are huge, but you have to care first. I do, but I'm in the minority.
Couldn’t agree more!
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Lt. Daniel Kaffee
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:43 am

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by Lt. Daniel Kaffee »

Give me a break....faithful to the Constitution yada yada yada...

Oh i won't run because they're all corrupt every single one etc etc...

Gag orders....

You guys sound like you should start a group called ACPA Oath Keepers
---------- ADS -----------
 
RippleRock
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:15 pm

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by RippleRock »

McKaffee. The biggest ACPA cheerleader of them all. Break out the Pom-Poms.

The Constitution is a piece of $hit. Exactly.

Why don't you take a moment of your precious time "saving us all from ourselves" with your superior intellect and actually read it. The entire MEC should take a bit of time off golf or barbecuing by the pool and do a short study session. Maybe the Membership should demand that they each recite a single sentence from it by memory. Just one.

Not one elected official has likely even read it in the last 10 years, as it is disregarded regularly with impunity.
---------- ADS -----------
 
bcflyer
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1357
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:35 am
Location: Canada

Re: ACPA MEC

Post by bcflyer »

Lt. Daniel Kaffee wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:16 pm Give me a break....faithful to the Constitution yada yada yada...

Oh i won't run because they're all corrupt every single one etc etc...

Gag orders....

You guys sound like you should start a group called ACPA Oath Keepers

Perhaps if you on the MEC (and it pretty obvious that you are) actually followed the constitution we wouldn’t be in this position. Given ACPA’s recent track record you are either incompetent or corrupt. Since you imply they aren’t corrupt it must be that you are incompetent. Either way there needs to be a major house cleaning. (Funny how you managed to make that much more difficult in the not so distant past…)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”