photofly wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 7:38 am
At the moment there are very few small piston singles available on the market at a sensible price. Were I selling right now, I'd decline to allow an invasive inspection of my airframe. As far as I know, there are no defects with the airframe. If that's not good enough, there will be another buyer along in a minute. That might be different if there were a glut of aircraft, few purchasers, and I needed to sell quickly.
Patience.....as a buyer------this is going to change, soon and bigly, if I`m remotely right.
As for your other question, it`s cause people have been known to lie a time or 2.
digits_ wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 7:03 am
Because the actual important areas are only visible after removing panels or spark plugs.
it's all proportional: removing panels and spark plugs fall under elementary work; I wouldn't object to them. If you told me you wanted to pull a jug, I'd say no, thank you. You can stick a mirror or inspection tool down by the door post to look for cracks but I wouldn't let you unrivet part of the floor for a better view.
If I had a Piper, would I let you remove the wings so you can check the spar cap, as part of a pre-buy? No.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
with the carbon tax and other fuel taxes expect avgas price 2.50 liter in the coming years. next
.1) buy an airplane that has lots of others produced. ie 172 182.lower parts cost readily available vs types with a low production run with enhance your pleasure of ownership
2)look 10years out on who will buy your plane. Updates should reflect the current. market.
3)if you find a " barn find". sat in a hangar for more than 3 years. it will be cheaper in the long run to overhaul the eng. right off the bat vs big annual then have to go back n do a top or overhaul. in a year .then you get. the value .
It says $1 and valuable consideration. It's not a receipt. And if you did buy it for $1, the CRA would pursue you for the tax on the market value (by their judgement), regardless of what you paid for it.
Still waiting to find out if the tax applies to the sale of used aircraft or just new ones.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
digits_ wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 7:03 am
I'd wager that allowing a thorough prebuy will generally result in a higher sale price and a quicker sale.
Only if the prebuy shows no defects.
It's a roll of the dice. (Trivially: If the outcome was certain there'd be no point in doing an inspection.)
If the dice come up one way, the sale goes through. If the dice come up the other way, the sale fails, and the vendor is left with a known defective airplane. It depends on a balance of many things like how eager the seller is, how eager the buyer is, whether there are a lot of airplanes of a like type on the market, and so on.
An acquaintance sold his fixed-gear Cardinal a few years ago; the pre-purchase inspection he permitted came up with "too much play in the wing spar". By the time he'd sourced a new carry through, he'd spent more than half the sale value of the aircraft. He rolled the dice, and lost.
At the moment there are very few small piston singles available on the market at a sensible price. Were I selling right now, I'd decline to allow an invasive inspection of my airframe. As far as I know, there are no defects with the airframe. If that's not good enough, there will be another buyer along in a minute. That might be different if there were a glut of aircraft, few purchasers, and I needed to sell quickly.
PilotDAR wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:16 am It will affect the value of the plane by around $10,000. It's worth the inspection to know...
If I'm selling, and not flying the airplane, then I don't think it's worth the inspection to know. I don't want to know!
It sounds like you are the exact reason many buyers insist on a pre-purchase inspection. Your posts here reinforce the view of how important one can be. The current owner is the one that should be responsible for current defects. Unless agreed upon otherwise.
pelmet wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 11:49 am
It sounds like you are the exact reason many buyers insist on a pre-purchase inspection.
You ascribe to me a lot of influence, which is kind, but probably not true. Regardless:
The current owner is the one that should be responsible for current defects. Unless agreed upon otherwise.
This is not correct. The current owner is usually responsible for known defects. To be responsible for all current defects would be to offer a warranty should those defects come to light in future, which would be unusual for a private aircraft sale. The extent to which an owner will let a purchaser search for presently unknown defects is a matter for negotiation.
The reason I raised the issue is because the OP is being advised to do all sorts of prepurchase inspections, as if it was a right. It's not. It's something for which he'll have to negotiate with the vendor, especially when it comes to invasive inspections that would be needed to uncover some of the more significant defects being mentioned here. Caveat emptor, as they say.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
pelmet wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 11:49 am
It sounds like you are the exact reason many buyers insist on a pre-purchase inspection.
You ascribe to me a lot of influence, which is kind, but probably not true. Regardless:
The current owner is the one that should be responsible for current defects. Unless agreed upon otherwise.
This is not correct. The current owner is usually responsible for known defects. To be responsible for all current defects would be to offer a warranty should those defects come to light in future, which would be unusual for a private aircraft sale. The extent to which an owner will let a purchaser search for presently unknown defects is a matter for negotiation.
The reason I raised the issue is because the OP is being advised to do all sorts of prepurchase inspections, as if it was a right. It's not. It's something for which he'll have to negotiate with the vendor, especially when it comes to invasive inspections that would be needed to uncover some of the more significant defects being mentioned here. Caveat emptor, as they say.
Sure, but how many buyers are pricing their airplane with unkown defects in mind? Almost none. They are almost all advertised as if they just came of the assembly band, with stellar maintenance, no snags, nothing broken, always hangared, polished after every flight etc.
If it's advertised that way, don't be surprised if a buyer wants to confirm what you are saying. It might not be your legal right to do a thorough inspection, I would say it is at least industry standard to have a pre purchase inspection done which you need screw drivers and wrenches to complete it.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
digits_ wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 1:39 pm
Sure, but how many buyers are pricing their airplane with unkown defects in mind?
Well every single one of them, I hope. All of them with a brain, anyway. Who ever bought a used plane and didn't find a whole bunch of things that needed fixing immediately, or at the first annual inspection?
If it's advertised that way
If you price an airplane according to how the vendor tells you it's been kept, you're a fool.
I would say it is at least industry standard to have a pre purchase inspection done which you need screw drivers and wrenches to complete it.
And I merely say that wrenches and screwdrivers can be used to remove the plugs, check the compression, and stick a flashlight into the wing cavities, which is all standard and reasonable, but also to start pulling jugs and taking the wings off, which isn't.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
dextronomos wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 11:54 am
Hello all!
I am new to this Forum.
I am looking at purchasing a used single-engine piston 6 seater for cross country missions. Do you have any tips on how to go about this process? I've heard about "Aviation consultant"s who can help with this? Is that right?
I note you didn't come back on this. Nice troll. It's easy to get the avcan crowd wound up these days....
I worked for a gent who bought a cessna 400 that had about 400TSOH on both engines and props. It hads flown 20 hrs in the last 3 years(prior owner lost interest). All the logs looked good, and numbers(compression/oil tests looked good) and I knew the AME. However it had the ECI cylinder(good to 900 according to AD). We had a hydraulic leak, while they were at it they found a cracked cylinder(AD). they also found a load of corrosion on the cams, and internals. Repairs cost 120k, If I am buying a 100k airplane, or a 300k one, I will insist on a jug being pulled. As will most people, I hope
photofly wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 7:38 am
At the moment there are very few small piston singles available on the market at a sensible price. Were I selling right now, I'd decline to allow an invasive inspection of my airframe. As far as I know, there are no defects with the airframe. If that's not good enough, there will be another buyer along in a minute. That might be different if there were a glut of aircraft, few purchasers, and I needed to sell quickly.
Patience.....as a buyer------this is going to change, soon and bigly, if I`m remotely right.
As for your other question, it`s cause people have been known to lie a time or 2.
Rookiepilot,
I think you and I are probably on the same wavelength as to what we think is coming. I put off buying a plane to do a massive reno to the house just prior to lumber prices exploding. Now I'm tinkering with my hangar this summer to make it a little nicer while I wait for the right deal to come up.
Over this past year I have been getting discouraged on C150s selling for as much as C172s used to sell for and all the ridiculous 50k+, 75k+, 100k+ scrap piles hitting the market. Same with the aircraft up for sale owned by people less than 2 months while they attempt desperate COVID flips.
I have been tracking all my current favorites up for sale. It's a list that used to sit at 5-10 aircraft with a constant stream of AC selling while others are being put up for sale. Now the list is 55 aircraft.
photofly wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 7:38 am
At the moment there are very few small piston singles available on the market at a sensible price. Were I selling right now, I'd decline to allow an invasive inspection of my airframe. As far as I know, there are no defects with the airframe. If that's not good enough, there will be another buyer along in a minute. That might be different if there were a glut of aircraft, few purchasers, and I needed to sell quickly.
Patience.....as a buyer------this is going to change, soon and bigly, if I`m remotely right.
As for your other question, it`s cause people have been known to lie a time or 2.
Rookiepilot,
I think you and I are probably on the same wavelength as to what we think is coming. I put off buying a plane to do a massive reno to the house just prior to lumber prices exploding. Now I'm tinkering with my hangar this summer to make it a little nicer while I wait for the right deal to come up.
Over this past year I have been getting discouraged on C150s selling for as much as C172s used to sell for and all the ridiculous 50k+, 75k+, 100k+ scrap piles hitting the market. Same with the aircraft up for sale owned by people less than 2 months while they attempt desperate COVID flips.
I have been tracking all my current favorites up for sale. It's a list that used to sit at 5-10 aircraft with a constant stream of AC selling while others are being put up for sale. Now the list is 55 aircraft.
I wonder if we have crossed the hump...
Suspect....if not yet, very, very soon....on so many assets, not just airplanes
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:28 am
And the fanboy groupies appear on schedule......they take your money, and you thank them.....LOL
I'm not sure what your post has to do with buying a used airplane, per the OP, but nice thread drift!
As I pointed out last time you and I got into this: nobody knows whether inflation is or is not going to persist over the next several quarters. You have your view, I have mine, and there are a lot of very smart investors out there who have their own views. Which is great: that's what makes markets work. It's just not as cut-and-dried as you like to make out, and to pretend otherwise makes you either a charlatan or a fool. Which is it?
It might be a good idea if you got out of your little Robinhood Bro day trading bubble, spent less time bloviating on Twitter (and on AvCanada!), educated yourself, and and learned to assess contrasting points of view, rather than mindlessly parroting random stuff you find on CNBC. Or read a few economic studies, unless of course you've still got that pesky hate-on for post-secondary education.
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:28 am
And the fanboy groupies appear on schedule......they take your money, and you thank them.....LOL
I'm not sure what your post has to do with buying a used airplane, per the OP, but nice thread drift!
As I pointed out last time you and I got into this: nobody knows whether inflation is or is not going to persist over the next several quarters. You have your view, I have mine, and there are a lot of very smart investors out there who have their own views. Which is great: that's what makes markets work. It's just not as cut-and-dried as you like to make out, and to pretend otherwise makes you either a charlatan or a fool. Which is it?
It might be a good idea if you got out of your little Robinhood Bro day trading bubble, spent less time bloviating on Twitter (and on AvCanada!), educated yourself, and and learned to assess contrasting points of view, rather than mindlessly parroting random stuff you find on CNBC. Or read a few economic studies, unless of course you've still got that pesky hate-on for post-secondary education.
Good rant there YYZ!
Med's forgot again, apparently.....
My advice on point the OP: Wait, be patient.
Used airplanes are highly likely to get cheaper in the coming period.
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:19 pm
Good rant there YYZ!
Med's forgot again, apparently.....
So, you're going to bark, right? Got it.
But you still haven't answered my question: are you a charlatan, or a fool?
And just to help you out, it's meds, not med's. Learn to distinguish between plural and possessive, mkay then?
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:19 pm
Good rant there YYZ!
Med's forgot again, apparently.....
So, you're going to bark, right? Got it.
But you still haven't answered my question: are you a charlatan, or a fool?
And just to help you out, it's meds, not med's. Learn to distinguish between plural and possessive, mkay then?
Calm down YYZ. Take a Xanax, but well before that next leg to Sudbury.
I wasn't even talking to you, just razzing the financial advisor community who can't read economic data if their life depended on it. Ritholtz is just the poster child, their firm was on TV talking inflation and it was a bizarre collection of doublespeak and denial to Zanax their client base.
Anyway -- Nothing personal.
