3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

[JerryRig]

[/img]

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Vid ... ood-before

Blood cells before and then after vaccination. Looking at the images I can see how clotting issues may turn out to be the new issue for air travel.

I stopped listening after about ten seconds, when I heard "the lab and the doctor I am working with are remaining anonymous" - IOW, I have no way to actually verify the credibility of this source. I'm all for listening to opinions that I vehemently disagree with, but this is horsecrap.

Snoops (aka snopes) has been discredited for a while now as a leftist funded misinformation site. Start doing some REAL research, like perhaps looking at the thousands of deaths document on the VAERS site, and consider up to 10 times those numbers that are estimated to go undocumented.

REAL research means not counting the "10 times those numbers" that aren't documented and therefore, yanno, can't be researched. And being a leftist site means nothing - there are no truly neutral sources of news, and if you think otherwise, you are sadly mistaken. Snopes at least cites its sources, which is more than I can say for the rightist propaganda I've seen elsewhere in this thread (see what I did there?).

Beyond that, this voiceofthepeople.org site is a completely amateur, mickey-mouse operation that I could slap together in a couple of hours, even half asleep and drunk out of my tree. Clearly built from a bunch of howtos they found on the Internet. They claim to be American but somehow are registered and operating in Canada. They're using example encryption certificates never meant for real world use. It's utter and complete amateur bullshit. They might as well be a blog on Medium.com.

[JerryRig]

Fine. I get yall too busy flying to do proper research. Here are some bones.

DR. MARK TROZZI: THE SCIENCE BEHIND THE COVID VACCINES & WHY THEY ARE SO DANGEROUS
https://brandnewtube.com/v/Fqyn8L

VAERS data
https://takeactioncanada.ca/wp-content/ ... -2021.jpeg

DR. SHERRI TENPENNY AND DR. CARRIE MADEJ ON VACCINES, COVID 19 AND TRANSHUMANISM
https://www.bitchute.com/video/Yr8ZgdpxQPF5/

[photofly]

Doesn’t look like y’all are going to have a lot of choice, soon:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57592596

[TG]

I shamelessly stole that on another forum just for you JerryRig and the like:

"I've done my research" = "I've googled it and read 3 articles. I am now an expert on vaccines and am not interested in the views of scientists and medics who have dedicated their entire lives to immunology and vaccine research.
Presumably you'll all be doing the same thing if you get a fatal disease or need an organ transplant? "Oh no Doctor, I read a thing on Facebook thanks - I'm not having you remove a kidney when I can take Vitamin C....".

[pecessix]

TG, can you please let us know where to find reliable information?
Can you please answer those questions:
- What's in it?
- Who developed it?
- What is their track record?
- Do they have legal liability?
- How long was it tested for?
- Who is telling me to get it?
- What is their track record?
- How effective is it?
- Is it necessary for someone with my health condition?
- How many side effect reported?
- How many death reported?

Someone who does not want this covid vaccine is not necessarily an anti-vax, and not a flat earther... Please stop saying that.


This covid is a true killer.
So far it's killed the flu, cancer, heart disease, and other diseases. It killed the ability to think, logic and common sense. It killed the economy, the working class and millions of jobs. It killed human connection, love and compassion.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Someone who does not want this covid vaccine is not necessarily an anti-vax, and not a flat earther... Please stop saying that.

Absolutely true, I'll grant you that.

But it's also absolutely true that the safe bet is on them being wrong or misinformed. Sometimes decroum gets forgotten the argument gets politicized.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Someone who does not want this covid vaccine is not necessarily an anti-vax, and not a flat earther... Please stop saying that.

Absolutely true, I'll grant you that.

But it's also absolutely true that the safe bet is on them being wrong or misinformed. Sometimes decroum gets forgotten the argument gets politicized.

Someone who does not want the vaccine does not want it because they do not understand it. They may think that they do, but anyone in the right state of mind would understand that the risks from the vaccine are very low whereas the risks from COVID-19 are high.

"Oh, but 98% of people survive.."

Cool, do you want to risk being part of the 2% who die a painful death where you cannot breathe? Sure, by all means... be my guest.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Someone who does not want this covid vaccine is not necessarily an anti-vax, and not a flat earther... Please stop saying that.

Absolutely true, I'll grant you that.

But it's also absolutely true that the safe bet is on them being wrong or misinformed. Sometimes decroum gets forgotten the argument gets politicized.

Someone who does not want the vaccine does not want it because they do not understand it. They may think that they do, but anyone in the right state of mind would understand that the risks from the vaccine are very low whereas the risks from COVID-19 are high.

"Oh, but 98% of people survive.."

Cool, do you want to risk being part of the 2% who die a painful death where you cannot breathe? Sure, by all means... be my guest.

I fully agree. But there's something I just don't understand, and it is specific to pilots:

We are, as a group, far more aware of our mortality than the general public. We take risks every day that most people wouldn't ever consider. Oh - kickin' crosswind day? Let's get some nail-biting, terrorizing landing practice in! I fail to understand why as a group, pilots can accept the risks inherent with flight (or, at least, GA flight), but not understand the risk/benefit calculus of a vaccine that is quickly approaching a billion administered doses worldwide.

If nothing else, this pandemic has proven to me that humans simply cannot understand risk.

[montado]

When you choose a vaccine you take on any risk of that vaccine by choice.

People don’t choose to get covid.

If a vaccine had a 0.1 percent chance of death, and a disease had a 2 percent chance of death... does this mean it’s best to get the vaccine? You would need to know the chance of getting the disease to mathematically come up with the risk. Just because you don’t get a vaccine, doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee you get the disease.

The more people vaccinated, the less chance an unvaccinated person will catch covid. If the entire world was fully vaccinated except for one individual, it would absolutely make zero sense to take the risk of a vaccine when you chance of getting the disease is statically zero.

With our vaccine rates here in Canada, the people who choose not to get the shot have even less risk to a disease that was low risk to begin with. The risk of getting covid is very low. Don’t let the government restrictions fool you... it’s safe to live your life, but they might have you convinced otherwise.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

The more people vaccinated, the less chance an unvaccinated person will catch covid. If the entire world was fully vaccinated except for one individual, it would absolutely make zero sense to take the risk of a vaccine when you chance of getting the disease is statically zero.

With our vaccine rates here in Canada, the people who choose not to get the shot have even less risk to a disease that was low risk to begin with. The risk of getting covid is very low. Don’t let the government restrictions fool you... it’s safe to live your life, but they might have you convinced otherwise.

Mathematically, I can't argue with that. But morally, I can. That one person clearly does not understand the concept of collective risk and has zero sense of civic duty.

Case in point - I am not vaccinated for smallpox (which let's not forget, killed more people than war). My forebearers did that out of necessity, so I wouldn't have to.

[altiplano]

The more people vaccinated, the less chance an unvaccinated person will catch covid. If the entire world was fully vaccinated except for one individual, it would absolutely make zero sense to take the risk of a vaccine when you chance of getting the disease is statically zero.

With our vaccine rates here in Canada, the people who choose not to get the shot have even less risk to a disease that was low risk to begin with. The risk of getting covid is very low. Don’t let the government restrictions fool you... it’s safe to live your life, but they might have you convinced otherwise.

Mathematically, I can't argue with that. But morally, I can. That one person clearly does not understand the concept of collective risk and has zero sense of civic duty.

Case in point - I am not vaccinated for smallpox (which let's not forget, killed more people than war). My forebearers did that out of necessity, so I wouldn't have to.

Smallpox killed about 1/3 of people who got it and was a horrible sickness to everyone who went through it. It's not a fair comparator.

COV19? The majority of people don't even know they had it and are completely asymptomatic, most others have minor symptoms, and a very small minority - in the fractions of a percent - have severe symptoms.

It's endemic now, likely here to stay, just like influenza and with a similar risk profile to vulnerable people. Flu hits healthy people harder though I think.

Is it everyone's moral duty to get a flu shot every year? Do you do that?

[Maynard]

Fine. I get yall too busy flying to do proper research. Here are some bones.

DR. MARK TROZZI: THE SCIENCE BEHIND THE COVID VACCINES & WHY THEY ARE SO DANGEROUS
https://brandnewtube.com/v/Fqyn8L

VAERS data
https://takeactioncanada.ca/wp-content/ ... -2021.jpeg

DR. SHERRI TENPENNY AND DR. CARRIE MADEJ ON VACCINES, COVID 19 AND TRANSHUMANISM
https://www.bitchute.com/video/Yr8ZgdpxQPF5/

Look at the links you shared of your "research". If you're going to go on about "Proper research" at least have the damn courtesy to share legit links. Idiot

[altiplano]

We are, as a group, far more aware of our mortality than the general public. We take risks every day that most people wouldn't ever consider. Oh - kickin' crosswind day? Let's get some nail-biting, terrorizing landing practice in! I fail to understand why as a group, pilots can accept the risks inherent with flight (or, at least, GA flight), but not understand the risk/benefit calculus of a vaccine that is quickly approaching a billion administered doses worldwide.

If nothing else, this pandemic has proven to me that humans simply cannot understand risk.

I'm not so sure your ideas of superior mortality awareness are valid.

Anyway, I think we are in the business of assessing and managing risk.

Personally I assessed the risk of covid at the height of the pandemic as extremely low, and even lower now. However, with a history of anaphylaxis to an unknown exposure I assess a personal risk of reaction to a vaccine as somewhat higher than the statistic.

That said, if I decide to take a vaccine I currently assess the risk of not getting the vaccine to the manufacturer specification as 100% likely. I also assess a high level of unknowns and more information needed regarding things like vaccine passport requirements to other jurisdictions I travel to. For example look at US jurisdictions not recognizing AZ as fully vaccinated to FDA approved levels. Would that mean I would have to do another round of shots and accept another round of risk if that was something I needed for work/personal travel? How about mixed vaccines? Delayed doses? As an aside it's interesting that we still haven't seen full FDA/HC approvals for these vaccines. What's holding that up?

I assess policy around Cov19 as a general clusterfuck and something I'm happier to steer clear of until the misinformation and politics get out of the way.

[montado]

The biggest risk of not taking the vaccine to young people is that the government will restrict your movement.

Funny how this works. I don’t know anyone under 50 who said they got the vaccine because they were concerned about covid... I keep hearing “I got the shot because I just want normal” or “I got the shot so I can travel”. Who would have guessed the vaccine was designed to prevent the disease “government restrictions”... I really don’t want that disease, please give me my shot so I don’t get “government restrictions”. It is one of the worst diseases I know as it mutates and makes little sense.

Why is it people are taking a vaccine to cure government restrictions? Is this even logical? You can add me to the list of the primary reason I got my shot was for normalcy. Funny enough my plan is not working out because now the government is still holding out in vaccinated people saying they need to be restricted to prevent the spread to people who choose not to vaccinate.

Insanity!

Americans do many things wrong. I can’t stand Andrew Cuomo, But he said one thing right in my opinion. He said the vaccine is there for those who want it and life will now go back to normal. If you don’t want the vaccine that risk is on you. Things will open up, so make your choice and live with it.

It’s time to stop the politics and move on.

[CpnCrunch]

It's endemic now, likely here to stay, just like influenza and with a similar risk profile to vulnerable people. Flu hits healthy people harder though I think.

Is it everyone's moral duty to get a flu shot every year? Do you do that?

No, that's simply untrue. covid-19 has a much higher mortality and hospitalization rate.

[BTD]

It's endemic now, likely here to stay, just like influenza and with a similar risk profile to vulnerable people. Flu hits healthy people harder though I think.

Is it everyone's moral duty to get a flu shot every year? Do you do that?

No, that's simply untrue. covid-19 has a much higher mortality and hospitalization rate.

There is so much varying information and experts in the field disagree. The numbers from this peer reviewed study posted to the WHO put the covid infection fatality rate at a median of 0.05% for those under 70.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_fir ... 265892.pdf

Using the CDCs flu numbers for the 2018/2019 season for those under 65 would get an IFR of approx 0.026%

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Over 65 flu infection fatality rate would be approx. 0.83% according to the cdc numbers. The covid study above doesn’t separate out over 70, but from what I recall from other sources covid is approx 3 times worse for seniors.

[altiplano]

It's endemic now, likely here to stay, just like influenza and with a similar risk profile to vulnerable people. Flu hits healthy people harder though I think.

Is it everyone's moral duty to get a flu shot every year? Do you do that?

No, that's simply untrue. covid-19 has a much higher mortality and hospitalization rate.

I am speaking of now and moving forward. This was a novel virus that ran quickly through much of the population that has never been exposed to it and is now part of what's floating around out there - endemic -and as exposures and re-exposures increase, whether through immunizations or past exposure we will see that come down. We are already seeing death rates plummeted.

So of course it's true. Look at a real pandemic like the Spanish Flu... H1N1 and it's variants are now just part of what's out there every year and when it's the dominant strain of the year it doesn't hit as hard as when it first surfaced.

So how about you? Do you get the flu shot every year? How about when we had world pandemic influenza in '09-'10. Even in a typical flu year they project over a half a million deaths - every year, year in, year out... so you always get your flu shot, right?

Should it be a requirement to go out for dinner? Go to work? Take a trip? Should people be shamed for shunning their societal responsibility for choosing not to get a flu shot?

[CpnCrunch]

So how about you? Do you get the flu shot every year? How about when we had world pandemic influenza in '09-'10. Even in a typical flu year they project over a half a million deaths - every year, year in, year out... so you always get your flu shot, right?

Yes, I get the flu shot every year because my mother-in-law is immunocompromised. The flu would very likely kill her, as would covid.

Even apart from that, now I'd probably still get the flu vaccine. It's a pretty unpleasant virus.

[JerryRig]

Here’s an informative piece for the individuals out there such a Maynard who operate on a grade 2 level and don’t know how to converse without name calling.

https://videopress.com/v/p8R7ebPy

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Yes, I get the flu shot every year because my mother-in-law is immunocompromised. The flu would very likely kill her, as would covid.

Even apart from that, now I'd probably still get the flu vaccine. It's a pretty unpleasant virus.

For sure. I came down with the flu in January (not Covid - got tested twice). I was couchridden for two weeks, and didn't leave the house for four. Very unpleasant. Curled up on the bathroom floor in the fetal position kind of sick. I hadn't taken a day off sick in about ten years.

I don't often get sick, but when I do, I get very sick. More than anything, that's what scares me about this coronavirus.

[altiplano]

So how about you? Do you get the flu shot every year? How about when we had world pandemic influenza in '09-'10. Even in a typical flu year they project over a half a million deaths - every year, year in, year out... so you always get your flu shot, right?

Yes, I get the flu shot every year because my mother-in-law is immunocompromised. The flu would very likely kill her, as would covid.

Even apart from that, now I'd probably still get the flu vaccine. It's a pretty unpleasant virus.

I guess I'm speaking to the masses there... most people do not get vaccinated for flu unless they are high risk or exposed to high risk people. The rest aren't called names and locked out of things for choosing not to.

We'll probably see a combo flu/covid vaccine in the future.

[photofly]

I guess I'm speaking to the masses there... most people do not get vaccinated for flu unless they are high risk or exposed to high risk people. The rest aren't called names and locked out of things for choosing not to.

We'll probably see a combo flu/covid vaccine in the future.

Here is data on Canadian flu vaccine uptake:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... sults.html

It's probably more than you think:

Vaccine coverage for adults in the 2019/20 season was similar to the coverage in the previous season (42%).

Another difference from Influenza: the R0 number for seasonal (non pandemic) flu is estimated to be 1.28 (https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/ ... 334-14-480) while for COVID-19 it's 2-3 (https://ipac-canada.org/coronavirus-resources.php).

If you have flu you are much much less likely to spread it to those around you.

[Aviatard]

Here’s an informative piece for the individuals out there such a Maynard who operate on a grade 2 level and don’t know how to converse without name calling.

https://videopress.com/v/p8R7ebPy

Don’t Fall for the ‘VAERS Scare’ Tactic
Anti-vaxxers show how a precious vaccine adverse event reporting database can be used to scare the public


https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... AyqSO2vY14

[altiplano]

I guess I'm speaking to the masses there... most people do not get vaccinated for flu unless they are high risk or exposed to high risk people. The rest aren't called names and locked out of things for choosing not to.

We'll probably see a combo flu/covid vaccine in the future.

Here is data on Canadian flu vaccine uptake:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... sults.html

It's probably more than you think:

Vaccine coverage for adults in the 2019/20 season was similar to the coverage in the previous season (42%).

Another difference from Influenza: the R0 number for seasonal (non pandemic) flu is estimated to be 1.28 (https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/ ... 334-14-480) while for COVID-19 it's 2-3 (https://ipac-canada.org/coronavirus-resources.php).

If you have flu you are much much less likely to spread it to those around you.

No, It's exactly how many I think because I looked at the data.

+/- 40% is a minority of people getting vaccinated for flu. The other 60% aren't being labelled anti-vax or contemplated for being locked out of society.

Anyway, we're well over that with covid vaccinations at this point assuming most people follow up with second shots.