WestJet Dedicated Freighters

[ALPApolicy]

....plus there are folks among us who actually enjoy the night flying....

I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.

You'll outgrow giving a poop.

[AnonPilot]

....plus there are folks among us who actually enjoy the night flying....

I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.

You'll outgrow giving a poop.

Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.

You'll outgrow giving a poop.

Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.

The flight attendant in back asked me to let her know when we arrived...

[flyingcanuck]

I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.

You'll outgrow giving a poop.

Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.

[ALPApolicy]

I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.

You'll outgrow giving a poop.

Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.

I understand that sentiment.

After years of trying to milk a smooth landing out of the approach, and accepting all the praise forthcoming, I reached the phase a couple of years ago where I just don't want to be the guy running off the end or off the side of a taxiway. I like to put the plane down reasonably close to where I plan to put it down. I have issues with former Q400 drivers (sorry to generalize) who are used to carrying power on until touch down, or carry it until just prior and then slap the thrust levers back. That residual thrust floats a 37 good way further than necessary.

(That said, I landed in my parachute last week in a tree because I thought I was all that and a bag of chips, so maybe disregard anything I have to say...)

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

You'll outgrow giving a poop.

Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.

I understand that sentiment.

After years of trying to milk a smooth landing out of the approach, and accepting all the praise forthcoming, I reached the phase a couple of years ago where I just don't want to be the guy running off the end or off the side of a taxiway. I like to put the plane down reasonably close to where I plan to put it down. I have issues with former Q400 drivers (sorry to generalize) who are used to carrying power on until touch down, or carry it until just prior and then slap the thrust levers back. That residual thrust floats a 37 good way further than necessary.

(That said, I landed in my parachute last week in a tree because I thought I was all that and a bag of chips, so maybe disregard anything I have to say...)

As a former Q pilot, I am here to remind other Q pilots that you don't need to add power in the flare.

[tbaylx]

You'll outgrow giving a poop.

Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.

I understand that sentiment.

After years of trying to milk a smooth landing out of the approach, and accepting all the praise forthcoming, I reached the phase a couple of years ago where I just don't want to be the guy running off the end or off the side of a taxiway. I like to put the plane down reasonably close to where I plan to put it down. I have issues with former Q400 drivers (sorry to generalize) who are used to carrying power on until touch down, or carry it until just prior and then slap the thrust levers back. That residual thrust floats a 37 good way further than necessary.

(That said, I landed in my parachute last week in a tree because I thought I was all that and a bag of chips, so maybe disregard anything I have to say...)

That's a common turboprop transition issue. If your Q pilots are getting through sim and line indoc and still doing that then your training department has an issue.

[airway]

As a former Q pilot, I am here to remind other Q pilots that you don't need to add power in the flare.

For Flap 35 true.

If you are at Flap 15 and flaring at or below Vref, with intentions of touching down at or near your aiming point, quite often you do need a touch of power to prevent a "very firm" landing.

I don't know what Encore does, but Jazz has a procedure where you can add 10 Knots to the Flap 15 Vref on a normal landing, runway length permitting. If you do this you rarely need to add power in the flare. This also helps at busier airports to fit in with the jets.






.

[Tolip]

As a former Q pilot, I am here to remind other Q pilots that you don't need to add power in the flare.

For Flap 35 true.

If you are at Flap 15 and flaring at or below Vref, with intentions of touching down at or near your aiming point, quite often you do need a touch of power to prevent a "very firm" landing.

I don't know what Encore does, but Jazz has a procedure where you can add 10 Knots to the Flap 15 Vref on a normal landing, runway length permitting. If you do this you rarely need to add power in the flare. This also helps at busier airports to fit in with the jets
.

it's not really about "can" in my mind. "Can" you land a Q at vref without adding power. Yes you can, but you defs cant walk it back to idle b4 touchdown, not if you are at or close to vref. I find it is more of a mitigating risk issue, if your trying to touch down without the additional power that close to ref, your margin of error is very small, if you flair abit too high (smash), loose a gust (smash), get hit with minor windshere (smash). Or worse case scenario tail strike. Either that or you wind up adding the power later on in your flair to compensate for the error. Which, now you are right where you started. I've noticed that if you are 5-10 kts above vref, and you add about 5 % power once in flair attitude then you consistently land with about a 4 degree nose up attitude, which I think is a safe but effective use of the limited pitch authority we have in the Q. The problem comes in when you are way over ref or add way too much power and are landing with like 1 degree pitch, that's excessive and you notice it with you landing distance. I make it my goal every landing to touch down and have the aircraft stable below 60 kts, within 4000 ft runway.

[cloak]

In the short term, this is a good way to maximize the size of the fleet and in the long term, obviously this is good for the corporation.

[bobcaygeon]

Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters
Post by digits_ » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:06 am

Does that mean that recalled junior pilots will have the joy of flying night freight for the next 10 years?

Beats the S..it out of not working. Lots of pilots enjoy the steady wages earned from Large Cargo Air operators.

Does it?

It's probably safe to assume that if the junior westjet pilots wanted to fly night cargo, they would have gone to a night cargo operator.

I haven't flown night cargo, but I did night medevac, and I can honestly say I would take a non aviation job over going back to the night flying any day.

How is this any different than doing the red-eyes from YVR/YYC to YYZ/YHZ, etc? Did you read anything factual that said its dedicated crews ? I haven't

[digits_]

Beats the S..it out of not working. Lots of pilots enjoy the steady wages earned from Large Cargo Air operators.

Does it?

It's probably safe to assume that if the junior westjet pilots wanted to fly night cargo, they would have gone to a night cargo operator.

I haven't flown night cargo, but I did night medevac, and I can honestly say I would take a non aviation job over going back to the night flying any day.

How is this any different than doing the red-eyes from YVR/YYC to YYZ/YHZ, etc? Did you read anything factual that said its dedicated crews ? I haven't

That's what my question was: if there would be dedicated crews or not. If junior crews would be stuck on freight only for the next few years. So no, nothing factual, just asking in the hope someone would have known the answer.

[Blue42]

Does it?

It's probably safe to assume that if the junior westjet pilots wanted to fly night cargo, they would have gone to a night cargo operator.

I haven't flown night cargo, but I did night medevac, and I can honestly say I would take a non aviation job over going back to the night flying any day.

How is this any different than doing the red-eyes from YVR/YYC to YYZ/YHZ, etc? Did you read anything factual that said its dedicated crews ? I haven't

That's what my question was: if there would be dedicated crews or not. If junior crews would be stuck on freight only for the next few years. So no, nothing factual, just asking in the hope someone would have known the answer.

There’s no junior/senior when it comes to bidding schedules….

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

There’s no junior/senior when it comes to bidding schedules….

"Spread the shit around" is not an industry standard, so I'm not surprised that some aren't aware of it.

[WestJet Puke]

No need to disparage potential WJ cargo night flying. There are a some guys in our midst who enjoy the night flying, who will happily bid the cargo stuff. For some folks, flying in the o'dark hours, the lower-keyness of it (want to say showtime was only 45 minutes prior, on the cargo side), no airport terminals and security, plus no pax and fa drama sounds awfully good.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

No need to disparage potential WJ cargo night flying. There are a some guys in our midst who enjoy the night flying, who will happily bid the cargo stuff. For some folks, flying in the o'dark hours, the lower-keyness of it (want to say showtime was only 45 minutes prior, on the cargo side), no airport terminals and security, plus no pax and fa drama sounds awfully good.

Benefits of flying at night:

• Less likely to have GDP
• No late passengers
• No cranky flight attendants
• Less likely to have to wait for gate/stand
• No worrying if the bumps are too much for the pax
• No pax announcements
• No waiting for pax to deplane before heading to the car

[ALPApolicy]

No need to disparage potential WJ cargo night flying. There are a some guys in our midst who enjoy the night flying, who will happily bid the cargo stuff. For some folks, flying in the o'dark hours, the lower-keyness of it (want to say showtime was only 45 minutes prior, on the cargo side), no airport terminals and security, plus no pax and fa drama sounds awfully good.

Benefits of flying at night:

• Less likely to have GDP
• No late passengers
• No cranky flight attendants
• Less likely to have to wait for gate/stand
• No worrying if the bumps are too much for the pax
• No pax announcements
• No waiting for pax to deplane before heading to the car

I would add: Less likely to meet someone who will tell you what their pronouns are.

[Mostly Harmless]

I would add: Less likely to meet someone who will tell you what their pronouns are.

I identify as a Toaster.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

I would add: Less likely to meet someone who will tell you what their pronouns are.

I identify as a Toaster.

I'm a broom

[fish4life]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-07-12/

Related at all?

[Eric Janson]

I am always amazed when I work with a pilot who is upset about working weekends, holidays, or nights. Did they not understand the career they chose? There are many, many wonderful jobs in the world that work from 8-6 weekdays only.

If you are signing up for a job flying pax, somewhat during daylight hours-ish, and that suddenly changed to a full night freight schedule for the next few years (my original question/premise), I'm sure quite a few pilots would be unhappy with that.

But hey, good for you if you don't mind, if it scares other people off, it will only be good for your seniority number!

Freight flying is not necessarily a night operation any more than passenger flying is exclusively a day operation.

My Company was one of the first to remove the seats from our aircraft and start flying cargo. Didn't notice much difference in timings vs passenger ops.

In the beginning we couldn't overnight in China so we flew out and back with 6 Pilots. We lived on board for 2+ days. Nowhere near as bad as you might think.

I did multiple "Eastbound around the World flights" and even flew 15+59 non stop with cargo on board. Didn't know the aircraft could do this.

Most of us didn't mind the change at all.

Personally - I enjoyed the challenge.

[acpaleaks]

Would be an even greater challenge doing it for 10% less!

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Would be an even greater challenge doing it for 10% less!

That's the difference between ALPA and ACPA.

[acpaleaks]

Would be an even greater challenge doing it for 10% less!

That's the difference between ALPA and ACPA.

Not the only difference, sadly.

ACPA = Management Training Club.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Would be an even greater challenge doing it for 10% less!

That's the difference between ALPA and ACPA.

Not the only difference, sadly.

ACPA = Management Training Club.

It sucks that you are having such a bad experience with your union. I was part of Teamsters for a short time, so I'm well aware of the stress and discomfort a shitty union can cause.