Fourth wave discussion thread

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Funny how we can be so brainwashed when an apparent pandemic is happening and people are dying we all start to think we better not tell anyone why and how this is happening because it might be racist, sexist, or stigmatize certain groups… so let’s just deny some facts, say wear a mask… and watch shit unfold! Because rather than save lives it’s more important to be politically correct

It started with “how dare we say healthcare workers can get covid and bring it home”… let’s say “small businesses are super spreading and need to close”

I remember back a year ago everyone was saying kids don’t spread covid at school. Which is not very logical at all. I mean we know school age kids are always full of germs and that’s where they usually catch colds and flu… I think what we meant was kids can be spreading covid but most of them don’t get symptoms worse than a cold, if even that.

There's so much complaining on this forum but nobody cares enough about what they're complaining about to do a quick google search.

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/me ... .pdf?la=en

"blatant stupidity"
"Trump"

Blatant stupidity and Trump are often referenced together, yes.

Also, some people may not be stupid, but they are willfully ignorant... see the first half of this comment.

[altiplano]

"blatant stupidity"
"Trump"

Blatant stupidity and Trump are often referenced together, yes.

Also, some people may not be stupid, but they are willfully ignorant... see the first half of this comment.

Can't you advance past this? Or is it that you don't really want a discussion, you don't really want to discuss this? You're just looking for the quick dopamine hit from the reassurance of like-minded people piling on and agreeing with you, and a quick back patting and agreeing of your superiority?

Posting numbers and charts without question or understanding and resisting discussion doesn't make you superior or smarter.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

"blatant stupidity"
"Trump"

Blatant stupidity and Trump are often referenced together, yes.

Also, some people may not be stupid, but they are willfully ignorant... see the first half of this comment.

Can't you advance past this? Or is it that you don't really want a discussion, you don't really want to discuss this? You're just looking for the quick dopamine hit from the reassurance of like-minded people piling on and agreeing with you, and a quick back patting and agreeing of your superiority?

Posting numbers and charts without question or understanding and resisting discussion doesn't make you superior or smarter.

Once again, your argument against my argument is that my language is foul.

F*ck. Sh*t. ^ss. B*tch. C*nt. Am I missing any?

Now, will you get past your prudish nature and address the facts that were laid out several comments ago?

[altiplano]

Wow... top notch.

You said:
You are trying to reject the fact that 95% of COVID cases in Ontario are coming from 50% of the population who overwhelmingly have one thing in common; being unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.

Not exactly, I'm trying to discuss that claim... I did point out that your 95% number is inaccurate at this moment in time and there's more to it, and the fact that even if it was accurate, 95% of 95% less people is still a number that is decreasing rapidly.

I also posited that perhaps the communities where covid cases are highest, even pre-vaccine - service industry, immigrant communities - are also the communities least likely to be vaccinated. It would be nice to have a better look at those numbers from the community. So perhaps a correlation not relating 100% to causation... If a particular community already made up majority of covid cases, and that same community is least likely to be vaccinated, and they still make up the majority of cases... well... maybe lack of vaccine isn't necessarily the reason...

I'm trying to discuss that.

[photofly]

Those are communities where people work in jobs that are least able to be done from home, and least able to maintain extra distance.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Wow... top notch.

You said:
You are trying to reject the fact that 95% of COVID cases in Ontario are coming from 50% of the population who overwhelmingly have one thing in common; being unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.

Not exactly, I'm trying to discuss that claim... I did point out that your 95% number is inaccurate at this moment in time and there's more to it, and the fact that even if it was accurate, 95% of 95% less people is still a number that is decreasing rapidly.

I also posited that perhaps the communities where covid cases are highest, even pre-vaccine - service industry, immigrant communities - are also the communities least likely to be vaccinated. It would be nice to have a better look at those numbers from the community. So perhaps a correlation not relating 100% to causation... If a particular community already made up majority of covid cases, and that same community is least likely to be vaccinated, and they still make up the majority of cases... well... maybe lack of vaccine isn't necessarily the reason...

I'm trying to discuss that.

72.7% in Waterloo region
https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/most-new-c ... -1.5503378

95% in Niagara region
https://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/new ... cases.html

83% across Ontario
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/202 ... uly-6.html

And as someone who is doing vaccine bookings for the province, I can tell you that the majority of bookings I have done have been for people who have heavy accents and live. Mind you, I only get phone calls, so I cannot attest to the numbers coming in through the online portals, pharmacies, or popups.

[altiplano]

Wow... top notch.

You said:
You are trying to reject the fact that 95% of COVID cases in Ontario are coming from 50% of the population who overwhelmingly have one thing in common; being unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.

Not exactly, I'm trying to discuss that claim... I did point out that your 95% number is inaccurate at this moment in time and there's more to it, and the fact that even if it was accurate, 95% of 95% less people is still a number that is decreasing rapidly.

I also posited that perhaps the communities where covid cases are highest, even pre-vaccine - service industry, immigrant communities - are also the communities least likely to be vaccinated. It would be nice to have a better look at those numbers from the community. So perhaps a correlation not relating 100% to causation... If a particular community already made up majority of covid cases, and that same community is least likely to be vaccinated, and they still make up the majority of cases... well... maybe lack of vaccine isn't necessarily the reason...

I'm trying to discuss that.

72.7% in Waterloo region
https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/most-new-c ... -1.5503378

Non-specific, but sounds like over the last 3-4 months.


95% in Niagara region
https://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/new ... cases.html

Since December.

83% across Ontario
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/202 ... uly-6.html

Difficult article to read... what's recent?

And as someone who is doing vaccine bookings for the province, I can tell you that the majority of bookings I have done have been for people who have heavy accents and live. Mind you, I only get phone calls, so I cannot attest to the numbers coming in through the online portals, pharmacies, or popups.

"At this moment in time."


Statistics are funny things... particularly wwith changing variables.

Over these time periods the majority of people weren't vaccinated, vaccine efficacy aside, of course they would represent the majority of infections.

Using numbers like 95% is an inaccurate portrayal of what's happening now from looking at your chart 2B. The number of vaccinated breakthrough cases relative total number of cases has substantially increased, that's expected because the number of vaccinated people has risen, during that time we've seen the total number of new cases fall substantially, and we've seen a huge drop in unvaccinated case numbers, and huge drop off the number of the overall unvaccinated cases relative total case number.

So again, 95 That's not a good number from your own data for a number of statistical reasons - but it makes a good headline. Again, statistics are funny things... find what you want to say and you can angle them to achieve it.

Anyway, that aside, as I said, I think it would be interesting to look deeper at the groups driving the new cases: young people and service industry immigrant groups were driving case numbers before, and they're probably driving case numbers now.

Knowing that these are groups with some of the lowest vaccination rates, I wonder how that affects the numbers?Would higher vaccination rates among this group make a significant difference in that as they are among the highest risk, most exposed groups due to cultural/social/lifestyle situations?

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

You're splitting hairs.

Yes, information changes as time goes on, but that is no reason to dismiss it.

The VAST majority of cases over the past few weeks (let alone the course of this pandemic) are from people who are not vaccinated. Stop trying to hide that fact and accept that pretending it doesn't exist is disingenuous.

[altiplano]

You're splitting hairs.

Yes, information changes as time goes on, but that is no reason to dismiss it.

The VAST majority of cases over the past few weeks (let alone the course of this pandemic) are from people who are not vaccinated. Stop trying to hide that fact and accept that pretending it doesn't exist is disingenuous.

100% of Covid cases in Canada in 2020 were unvaccinated.

No, it's not splitting hairs. When you're looking at a period in time with a vastly changing vaccination rate from mostly unvaccinated to vaccinated it's a skewed statement.

As I said. Look at the most recent period. Certainly not 95%.

Let's suppose we had 100% vaccination... then it would be "100% of covid cases among vaccinated."

Look harder at the numbers... the good thing is the numbers are falling... just like they have in every pandemic...

[montado]

My wife is a teacher and we have been busy this summer putting together the kindergarten curriculum. We created a new song to get the kids singing and learning about pandemic safety! What do you all think!

Science says… Wear a mask!
Science says…. Social distance two meters
Science says….get a vaccine!
Play with your friends, at the park! OPPS! I didn’t say science says!

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eySDeBdqxGY

[acpaleaks]

My wife is a teacher and we have been busy this summer putting together the kindergarten curriculum. We created a new song to get the kids singing and learning about pandemic safety! What do you all think!

Science says… Wear a mask!
Science says…. Social distance two meters
Science says….get a vaccine!
Play with your friends, at the park! OPPS! I didn’t say science says!

Just give up already. As mentioned earlier your attempts at trolling are pathetic.

[TG]

Lockdowns and restrictions where put there to delay the inevitable, give Health care a break, give time for a vaccin to pop up, etc...

Right.

So why are we still facing lockdowns?

Health care is not in crisis, in fact they are dismantling units that were set up to handle the overflow and never saw a single patient.

We have vaccination numbers on the rise and we ought to have the knowledge at this point on his to protect vulnerable individuals.

Time to let it go... the reason for lockdown... recall those first 3 weeks in March 2020 , it as to flatten the curve, and then on it went with no end and moving goalposts. No more, time to move on.

About why we are still facing lockdown, I think you missed my previous post (July 10th) saying: It’s simply because we cannot “physically” vaccinate fast enough…
Well not fast enough to beat these variants it seems.
And health care not in crisis!? Might be because lockdowns/Restrictions are actually working.

But yes I'm tempted to say like you, time to let it go. Unfortunately it will remain only a Monday morning quarterback opinion as I do not have the expertise to confirm if it would be a good idea or not.

[altiplano]

Not in crisis and as I said they're packing up the capacity built for overflow that never came.

We have never even been as bad as their "best case" modelling, not even close.

We've done the time. Time to let it go.

[montado]

Lockdowns and restrictions where put there to delay the inevitable, give Health care a break, give time for a vaccin to pop up, etc...

Right.

So why are we still facing lockdowns?

Health care is not in crisis, in fact they are dismantling units that were set up to handle the overflow and never saw a single patient.

We have vaccination numbers on the rise and we ought to have the knowledge at this point on his to protect vulnerable individuals.

Time to let it go... the reason for lockdown... recall those first 3 weeks in March 2020 , it as to flatten the curve, and then on it went with no end and moving goalposts. No more, time to move on.

About why we are still facing lockdown, I think you missed my previous post (July 10th) saying: It’s simply because we cannot “physically” vaccinate fast enough…
Well not fast enough to beat these variants it seems.
And health care not in crisis!? Might be because lockdowns/Restrictions are actually working.

But yes I'm tempted to say like you, time to let it go. Unfortunately it will remain only a Monday morning quarterback opinion as I do not have the expertise to confirm if it would be a good idea or not.

If I told you 12 months ago, in a year we will have a vaccine that is 90 percent effective and over 70 percent of Canadians will have taken it and its available now to anyone who wants it. Hospitalizations because of covid are down 90 percent from the covid peak ICU's... Would it be acceptable to go back to normal then? What would your answer have been?

Its like everyone wants this to continue, they look for reasons to say we cant. They say things they don't even understand, such as "variant", because all the evidence I see says vaccine is still effective against variants, and variants are not more deadly. So all this chatter is just to find more reasons why we cant go back to normal. The goal post will keep moving because every month we can just say a word like "variant". We don't even have to understand it or think about it, we just know when we say a word, the word is there to say we cant be normal. In the fall what will your word be? Cases? Are cases going up in the fall? Will this be why we cant? lol

FYI the flu vaccine has never beaten the flu variants and we have had flu vaccines for decades. Were you ever convinced the covid vaccine will beat covid? Seriously?

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

If you haven't gotten vaccinated, go get your shot.

Unfortunately, our governments are going to wait as long as possible because it's election year and the Liberals are pushing the "we are in a pandemic and we need to do everything we can, unlike the Conservatives" whereas the Conservatives are pushing "the Liberals are taking away our rights and our freedoms."

@#$!, that makes me sound like I support the Liberals o.O

[CpnCrunch]

Not in crisis and as I said they're packing up the capacity built for overflow that never came.

We have never even been as bad as their "best case" modelling, not even close.

We've done the time. Time to let it go.

Maybe you should tell that to me, who hasn't been any to see my family because the ICUs were overflowing here as I've mentioned to you before but you don't seem to have listened. Just sod off with your ridiculous BS. You know less than nothing and I'm ashamed you're a pilot, and I'm worried that you're an Air Canada captain.

What is the point of this thread again?

[altiplano]

Not in crisis and as I said they're packing up the capacity built for overflow that never came.

We have never even been as bad as their "best case" modelling, not even close.

We've done the time. Time to let it go.

Maybe you should tell that to me, who hasn't been any to see my family because the ICUs were overflowing here as I've mentioned to you before but you don't seem to have listened. Just sod off with your ridiculous BS. You know less than nothing and I'm ashamed you're a pilot, and I'm worried that you're an Air Canada captain.

What is the point of this thread again?

Why don't you write the forum admin again and try to get me banned?

What did I say in that quote that is incorrect? It's 100% factual.
- Health care is not in crisis
- Overflow facilities here were never needed
- Modelling has always overestimated
- Covid is in decline

So what your problem? You insult me over and over and think you're like doxxing me or something dragging my employment into it again and again, even though I politely PM'd you and suggested to keep it civil. I've been nothing but civil in my discussion with you.

So piss off, if you only want to discuss things with people that agree with you go wank in the mirror.

[montado]

Not in crisis and as I said they're packing up the capacity built for overflow that never came.

We have never even been as bad as their "best case" modelling, not even close.

We've done the time. Time to let it go.

Maybe you should tell that to me, who hasn't been any to see my family because the ICUs were overflowing here as I've mentioned to you before but you don't seem to have listened. Just sod off with your ridiculous BS. You know less than nothing and I'm ashamed you're a pilot, and I'm worried that you're an Air Canada captain.

What is the point of this thread again?

You haven't been able to see your family because of politics, and that you decided politicians should control your decisions. The same politicians who were caught traveling when they told you its not safe to travel. Hmm...I think the more people who can see through the politics and the real BS, the faster we can get back to normal.

[CpnCrunch]

You haven't been able to see your family because of politics, and that you decided politicians should control your decisions. The same politicians who were caught traveling when they told you its not safe to travel. Hmm...I think the more people who can see through the politics and the real BS, the faster we can get back to normal.

My family situation / political situation is immaterial for this particular part of this thread (I just brought it up to point out I have first-hand experience). The point is misinformation. OP (altiplano) said hospitals were never in overflow, but clearly they were, and I have first-hand experience of this. It's just BS and lies. There's no rule against lying here so no point reporting all these posts. If there was a rule then the entire covid forum wouldn't be here.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

You haven't been able to see your family because of politics, and that you decided politicians should control your decisions. The same politicians who were caught traveling when they told you its not safe to travel. Hmm...I think the more people who can see through the politics and the real BS, the faster we can get back to normal.

My family is immaterial. The point is misinformation. OP said hospitals were never in overflow, but clearly they were, and I have first-hand experience of this. It's just BS and lies. There's no rule against lying here so no point reporting all these posts. If there was a rule then the entire covid forum wouldn't be here.

Yeah, but someone took a photo of a room in a hospital and it wasn't overcrowded, so you must be lying. /s

[montado]

You haven't been able to see your family because of politics, and that you decided politicians should control your decisions. The same politicians who were caught traveling when they told you its not safe to travel. Hmm...I think the more people who can see through the politics and the real BS, the faster we can get back to normal.

My family is immaterial. The point is misinformation. OP said hospitals were never in overflow, but clearly they were, and I have first-hand experience of this. It's just BS and lies. There's no rule against lying here so no point reporting all these posts. If there was a rule then the entire covid forum wouldn't be here.

Ah I see. I can accept that some hospitals reached max capacity at some locations across Canada. In Ontario it appears they just throttled the ICU... they cut off surgeries to prevent reaching max capacity. All we did was lower the amount of care we provide. But by definition don't we always run the hospitals full? When is the last time you went to the hospital and didn't have a 5 hour wait? You had to wait because it was full right? I guess our hospitals are always over flowing because that's how we run them.

Ontario had 1k covid patients in ICU. Its actually pathetic that 1k ICU cases in a population of 14 million is considered overwhelming our healthcare system. Pretty damn vulnerable if that's all our system can handle.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5784075

Why should one give a shit about full hospitals when hospitals are always full? 100 covid cases in ICU? We are full!!! 2k cases? Still Full!!!

[altiplano]

You haven't been able to see your family because of politics, and that you decided politicians should control your decisions. The same politicians who were caught traveling when they told you its not safe to travel. Hmm...I think the more people who can see through the politics and the real BS, the faster we can get back to normal.

My family is immaterial. The point is misinformation. OP said hospitals were never in overflow, but clearly they were, and I have first-hand experience of this. It's just BS and lies. There's no rule against lying here so no point reporting all these posts. If there was a rule then the entire covid forum wouldn't be here.

If your family is immaterial then why do you add them to the conversation?

I'm not the OP, but I think you're referring to my comment that they're packing up the facilities built for overflow that never came. This is what I'm referring to:

Not a single patient:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton ... -1.6090112

Turned out not to be needed:
https://owensoundsuntimes.com/news/loca ... taken-down

And there are more just like them that saw minimal or limited use and are no longer needed because our health care isn't in crisis today, nor is it facing one.. My posts aren't misinformation, your comprehension of them is poor though.

What ICUs are overflowing today?

We have 300 people in ICUs in this entire country.

Screenshot_20210712-200535.png (190.3 KiB) Viewed 1573 times

As of 2019 there are 1244 hospitals in Canada.

Screenshot_20210712-200753.png (160.59 KiB) Viewed 1573 times

So we have 1 covid ICU patient for every 4 hospitals in the country. Is that overflowing? Is that crisis?

You say BS and lies... but all you're doing is proving that you believe every Chicken Little story you hear, you don't look deeper or try to understand the numbers, you don't like to have a conversation or listen to or try to understand reasoned critical views, you only insult and slander those that don't go along with your popular narrative.

[geodoc]

I have a friend in Sitka Alaska who is a public health nurse. She sent me an email telling me that the hospital there is overwhelmed with COVID cases to the worse extent she has seen so since this all got started. All delta variant. She also tells me that all, not most, but all of the in-patient cases have not been vaccinated. All the cases, again not most, but all that are out-patients have been vaccinated. Almost all the un-vaccinated cases attended a church there where the pastor preached against vaccinations.



.
.

[altiplano]

You haven't been able to see your family because of politics, and that you decided politicians should control your decisions. The same politicians who were caught traveling when they told you its not safe to travel. Hmm...I think the more people who can see through the politics and the real BS, the faster we can get back to normal.

My family situation / political situation is immaterial for this particular part of this thread (I just brought it up to point out I have first-hand experience). The point is misinformation. OP (altiplano) said hospitals were never in overflow, but clearly they were, and I have first-hand experience of this. It's just BS and lies. There's no rule against lying here so no point reporting all these posts. If there was a rule then the entire covid forum wouldn't be here.

Now you edit your post with no response to my subsequent replies to your insults and slander. Are you fucking stupid?

1. Politics and your personal biases are not immaterial, they clearly drive you
2. altiplano is not the OP of this thread
3. I did not say hospitals "were never in overflow," if I did post the quote

You have clear comprehension issues, go back to school and learn to understand things, like really, all you are apparently capable of is regurgitating political dogma while you slander me professionally and personally. Like you even try to get me banned from this forum for disagreeing with you? Batten down the hatches and cover your ears Chicken Little you ignorant prick. Learn to read.