Contrail.....??

[Cat Driver]

I'm pretty sure the companies flying with contrail requirments charge a preimuim for those requirments

Pilots who meet contrail's requirements get paid better than those who do not meet the requirements?

Care to post proof of that?

[roger.roger]

For contrail flights the flight crews do recive a premium

[Carrier]

Sky’s the limit kindly responded to a request and has started a sticky at the top with the Contrail requirements. Missing from it are the PIC requirements for Categories B and E. Would somebody kindly add these. Then everyone will find the full requirements in one place.

It seems there are other requirements that are higher than those set by Contrail. These seem to be used by companies such as Shell.

Apparently there is a similar scheme operating in Saskatchewan for the mines. Is this also run by Contrail? If not, who does it? What are its requirements?

Perhaps these and any other requirements should be added to the sticky.

[CE-750Driver]

Hey All

There is a very similar thing in the U.S., the Wyvern Rating System. It sets minimums for flight crews, and training as well.

Some companies require you to have an Wyvern Rating before they will charter from you. Netjets is one of them. To do a flight for them, the flight crews have to meet the minimum time requirements. The company I worked for had to change flight crews around more than once to make sure the crews had the minimum times - usually because of a new pilot on the airplane.

http://www.charterx.com/mediafiles/stor ... 786638.pdf

[Captain X]

Apparently there is a similar scheme operating in Saskatchewan for the mines. Is this also run by Contrail? If not, who does it? What are its requirements?

The mins are set out by each mining company, Cameco and Areva. Unless things have changed in the last few years, that is how it used to be

[canpilot]

On the note of contrails and hiring mins..

It seems like mins. are back up again.. I think I saw more than a few places in the oilfields looking for 1000+ for a C206. If I read the contrail spreadsheet right *its been a long day* it seems like companies are requiring more time that those specified in contrail.

can this be attributed to the so called economic downturn?

Finding work at 800TT seems like it could be a lost cause this season.. Even in Alberta..


Whats your take? Please share!

[roger.roger]

[quote]Pilots who meet contrail's requirements get paid better than those who do not meet the requirements?

Care to post proof of that?
[quote]

you want me to post my pay stub?

[Cat Driver]

you want me to post my pay stub?

If you want to sure go ahead.

I guess the question I should have asked was is there a difference between flying on a charter under the contrails requirements and flying a charter for a client who is not under contrails requirements?

Or is that a little to deep a question for a pilot to examine and answer?

You might have to give me a little slack here as I have become rather jaded on the subject of pilots in general.

[roger.roger]

If you want to sure go ahead.

I guess the question I should have asked was is there a difference between flying on a charter under the contrails requirements and flying a charter for a client who is not under contrails requirements?

what the client pays for the charter.

The thing about the legality is - How can he publish that Company A isn't as safe as Company B when both operated in accordance with CARS and approval by the regulator?

He doesn't publish that A is better than B, He lay's down some easy to follow requirments for those charter companies and does audit's to ensure those requirments are being followed. No one says the companies that follow contrails have too, no one holds a gun to the heads of these companies. It's simple, you want to do the work you meet the requirments.

how is this any different from Mb requiring 500 MPIC and a ATPL for an aero medical or Ontario reqirering 2000 and with 500 MPIC and a valid ATPL. as long as you pay the bills you can require what ever you want out of your flight crew.

[Fresh Prince of King Air]

When Shell Charters with Jazz, Jazz has agreed to supply Shell Qualified crew.





ExxonMobil and Imperial Oil


Cheers

[Carrier]

Captain X: Thanks for the mine information.

Fresh Prince of King Air: Thanks for posting the missing Contrail and oil company information.

[Widow]

Widow, as far as I know there is nothing regulatory about contrails. Rather the brain child of somebody who has sold a parcel of goods to companies using charter air lines.

It wasn't so much that I thought this particular company was created by any regulatory agency, as that I wondered if it was perchance a "money-grab" reaction to the WCB initiated COR program.

[JULIETTE]

Allot of people have asked where Contrails came from and why the industry has put up with it an allowed, and the truth is, that it is actually something the majority of the industry helped create.

The Companies that currently follow contrails, gave great input into the design of Contrails and support. The reason for this is it gives the Contrails companies a monopoly over the major oil companies. There are many charter operators in Alberta, but there are only a few that the oil companies can fly with. This allows those few companies to charge more for their services, because there is really no other place to go.

It was not one guy that sold this to the oil companies, it was the operators as well.

Has anyone read the full Contrail book of requirements? It is a hard document to come by, because the actual rules and regulations of Contrails are constantly changing. Contrails can and does cover allot more than just pilot hours. It contains minimum rest periods, minimum aircraft equipment, minimum training, ect. It is basically a new set of CARS that either restates the legal requirements or suggest more stringent ones.

Allot of the rules are very strange. When Contrails rolled out, there were a couple companies that already had these rules in their COM, suggesting that Contrails was tailor made to something they comply with and no other company does. When these companies make changes to their COM, the Contrails change. Not the other way around. Contrails does not dictate the industry, the industry dictates contrail.

[Widow]

Juliette, what you've said makes me think even more that Contrails is a way to get aviation under the WCB COR program for reduced premiums.

As I understand it, you have to have a safety association for your industry in order to get "safe certified" and accepted into the WCB program. If the air op is being used by another industry, it may be a way to get around the lack of safety association for Aviation ... I was, at one time, wondering if the BC Forest Safety Council could include air ops used to transport forest workers under their umbrella.

All this would also explain the collusion Juliette describes ...

[JULIETTE]

Not quite. First off, Contrails is not a certifying agency. Their safety requirements are not for the industry, but rather the people who are serviced by the industry. The rules are not designed to protect charter employees, but are to protect the business people and employees of the oil companies that fly with these charter companies.

Contrails is not industry wide, it only applies to flying done for a select number of companies.

For it to come even close to qualifying for the COR program, it would need to be industry wide, relate to employee safety, and be issues by a certifying agency which contrails is not. Getting WCB premium reductions is small profits compared to what the oil companies, and charter companies pay to contrails. Getting something registered with COR is far too much work for far too little money compared to what they are doing now with very little effort.