Onex buying Sunwing ?

[TFTMB heavy]

I can't see the WJ and TS fleets being compatible outside of the codeshare which is currently being drawn up. It's Boeing vs Bus.
With the desire for lower prices and increasing downward pressure on CASM, efficiency is key and fleet consolidation is one of biggest factors for operational reasons as well as purchasing negots.
I have no idea what will happen with Transat, but with the interest accruing on financing they somehow need to start turning a profit in a year, find more LTF, or get bought.

Fleet commonality is a good point but the way the EU did everything they could to deter AC I would guess that if Onex wanted TS they would have to run it separately and also keep the TS headquarters in Quebec to capitalize on the market.

[Old fella]

Well… whatever. Just another merger/re-alignment/buyout, various aircraft will be repainted/re-allocated/returned/disposed of,flight crews will come/go/retire/move on. It’s another “episode” of season whatever in the series called Airlines. In the meantime the sun will still rise in the east and set in the west

[ALPApolicy]

I think this is a win-win for both pilot groups. There might be some short term pain as the merger process occurs, but in the medium/long term the purchase helps secure the future of both the WestJet and SunWing brands.

[Greasy Greaser]

I think this is a win-win for both pilot groups. There might be some short term pain as the merger process occurs, but in the medium/long term the purchase helps secure the future of both the WestJet and SunWing brands.

Completely agree.

When and IF the time comes, I really hope and think we will merge lists DOH and no one gets BOTL just because. Only issue is I can't see how this will be done with separate CBA (Encore) hanging onto the list. It would be almost career ending for those at Sunwing, still bad for any mainline FOs currently 2016 doh'ish or junior and we can forget any new hires at wj/sun/swoop in the future.

This could propel us forward so many years if we finally get our act together.

[aerobod]

So the question is, will Onex acquire CargoJet next with the upcoming cargo emphasis, to complete the set of IATA codes of Canadian operators beginning with “W”? They have four of the five so far (WG, WO, WR, WS), is W8 next?

[cloak]

… Only issue is I can't see how this will be done with separate CBA (Encore) hanging onto the list. It would be almost career ending for those at Sunwing, still bad for any mainline FOs currently 2016 doh'ish or junior and we can forget any new hires at wj/sun/swoop in the future.
This could propel us forward so many years if we finally get our act together.

It likely creates challenges for recruiting at mainline/Swoop too and a better solution for retention at all companies might have been giving Encore YOS upon flow as opposed to reserved seniority. However, what do you mean by your last sentence?

[ToolShed]

So the question is, will Onex acquire CargoJet next with the upcoming cargo emphasis, to complete the set of IATA codes of Canadian operators beginning with “W”? They have four of the five so far (WG, WO, WR, WS), is W8 next?

That's a tad nerdy.

[dialdriver]

They will paint the sunwing aircrafts teal. Merge the pilot lists and open a YUL hub. This is what will happen

Aircraft will not likely be painted teal. The Sunwing brand will remain in order to retain the customer base, which is what this is about.

[Mac08]

All these Sunwing people happy to join under the disaster that ONEX/WJ management is. How long till Sunwing morale tanks to Westjet employee levels?

[YYJ_Jeff]

So it sounds like Sunwing vacations - which includes everything but the hotels - is operating as a standalone company under the Onex umbrella. So Westjet, Westjet cargo, and Swoop will be sister companies to Sunwing travel which will now be the tour group. This new division will be headed by Stephen hunter. everyone in the airline still reports to Stephen and he reports to the Onyx board.

So for now - it sounds like we are owned by Onex as a separate company, how long that lasts is anyone's guess....

No, you (SWG) will be owned by the WestJet Group which is owned by Onex. Stephen Hunter will report to the CEO of the WestJet Group and it's BOD.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

No, you (SWG) will be owned by the WestJet Group which is owned by Onex. Stephen Hunter will report to the CEO of the WestJet Group and it's BOD.

In the Sunwing townhall yesterday, Stephen Hunter said that He ONLY reports directly to ONEX and not WestJet. He made that very clear.

[ALPApolicy]

No, you (SWG) will be owned by the WestJet Group which is owned by Onex. Stephen Hunter will report to the CEO of the WestJet Group and it's BOD.

In the Sunwing townhall yesterday, Stephen Hunter said that He ONLY reports directly to ONEX and not WestJet. He made that very clear.

Our new CEO is German and therefore does not have much of a sense of humour.

HERR HUNTER IST HIERUNTER WESTJET!!!!!

Verstehen Sie?

HERR HUNTER IST HIERUNTER!!!

[tbaylx]

No, you (SWG) will be owned by the WestJet Group which is owned by Onex. Stephen Hunter will report to the CEO of the WestJet Group and it's BOD.

In the Sunwing townhall yesterday, Stephen Hunter said that He ONLY reports directly to ONEX and not WestJet. He made that very clear.

The SWG and WJA townhalls were very different and there was considerably more information given to the employees at WJA. WJA is not going to run 4 different AOC's for very long.

[imjustlurking]

The EU has no stake in this merger and will not shoot it down. They had an issue with the two main brands serving the EU/Canada market becoming the sole dominative brand (AC, TS)

The merging of Sunwing and WestJet pilots will happen and it will be very messy. In the end, the likely outcome is that SWG pilots slot in based on their date of hire and they ditch their current "union" to join WJ in ALPA.

The Hunters keep their finger in as many pies as they can while offloading the unprofitable airline and mostly-profitable travel agency to reduce their financial risk while maintaining a guaranteed funnel of customers to their hotels.

I don't know what Onex is doing, but it seems that they are trying to turn WestJet into a "funk you" to the airline industry by competing with as many companies in as many markets as they possibly can. I am concerned for the future of WestJet.

[boeingboy]

WJA is not going to run 4 different AOC's for very long.

Of this I have no doubt. Eventually I see it will be folded into the mainline (or swoop). I can see some of the Westjet owned tails being painted in the Sunwing scheme for branding. The pilots and cabin crews will merge - with our side getting the very short end of the stick. Whether this happens Jan 1 2023 or sometime in 2026 or more could only be answered by the upper echelon - and at this point they probably don't even know.

I guess the only straw I could hope for is that Westjet is making a serious competitor to Rouge. This makes the most sense to me. As a business - A Westjet/Sunwing would crush AC Rouge in the vacation market. How they execute that is really anyone's guess right now.

From a strictly personal point of view - it would make sense to me (business wise) to fold Swoop into the new vacation division and have mainline simply offer a swoop class of fairs (much like AC did with Tango) As was said - running multiple AOC's doesn't make sense in the long run.

[tbaylx]

WJA is not going to run 4 different AOC's for very long.

Of this I have no doubt. Eventually I see it will be folded into the mainline (or swoop). I can see some of the Westjet owned tails being painted in the Sunwing scheme for branding. The pilots and cabin crews will merge - with our side getting the very short end of the stick. Whether this happens Jan 1 2023 or sometime in 2026 or more could only be answered by the upper echelon - and at this point they probably don't even know.

I guess the only straw I could hope for is that Westjet is making a serious competitor to Rouge. This makes the most sense to me. As a business - A Westjet/Sunwing would crush AC Rouge in the vacation market. How they execute that is really anyone's guess right now.

From a strictly personal point of view - it would make sense to me (business wise) to fold Swoop into the new vacation division and have mainline simply offer a swoop class of fairs (much like AC did with Tango) As was said - running multiple AOC's doesn't make sense in the long run.

I'd say you're pretty much bang on with all of that. I'd guess 2024 for the pilot group merger to be completed.

[x-wind]

I don't know much about anything least the pilot workings of Sunwing.

I have heard the pilots cycle to Europe in the summer to keep flying.

Any insights with this merger that Sunwing will still have Europe based flying for its pilots? I'm wondering if the purchase just included the N. American aspect of airline operations.

[cloak]

It was announced that more Canadian aircraft will be used(25?) to cover the winter flying that was previously done by EU aircraft and therefore likely summer deployments will come to an end since it was based on reciprocity.

It is also expected that few airplanes that used to be deployed in the summer will be put to use for year round sun destination flying. Previously Sunwing did not do much Sun flying in the summer since they could not fill the planes, but now they can be consolidated with WestJet’s flights.

It has also been said that Sunwing and WestJet tour operators will be combined to create a larger tour operator, likely WestJet tours? And likely operations will be merged rather swiftly to increase efficiency and make room for new growth. And barring any disasters, there should be lots of that, WB program will grow significantly, cargo is just beginning and will grow and 737 will grow too.

Post pandemic there will likely be more growth in price sensitive travel initially and as a result Swoop will grow more. Also in response to new entrants in the sector. It will be interesting to see how that will develop since all three new players, Flair, Lynx and Jetlines are heavily foreign funded and be interesting how they navigate the competitive landscape and foreign ownership and control laws at the same time.

[Babar350]

And again, Encore pilots will get screwed and will only be able to flow to swoop/sunwing which will make the career progression even longer with a C-scale.
I’m wondering how many will join AC in the coming years…

[imjustlurking]

And again, Encore pilots will get screwed and will only be able to flow to swoop/sunwing which will make the career progression even longer with a C-scale.
I’m wondering how many will join AC in the coming years…

I can't afford to go to AC and make second year Encore FO rates. Seriously, what the funk is up with that?

[JBI]

I can't afford to go to AC and make second year Encore FO rates. Seriously, what the funk is up with that?

AC 1st year flat pay is slightly higher than 6th year Encore FO pay rates.

It should be higher, but it's not as low as you suggest.

[cloak]

And there lies the biggest problem with Canadian aviation in terms of pilots pay. Supposedly the highest paying company is also one of the lowest paying! There is no justification for 4 long years of flat pay.

[Loon-A-Tic]

And there lies the biggest problem with Canadian aviation in terms of pilots pay. Supposedly the highest paying company is also one of the lowest paying! There is no justification for 4 long years of flat pay.

Call it what it is; purely a training bond, it's as simple as that.

[Hangry]

And again, Encore pilots will get screwed and will only be able to flow to swoop/sunwing which will make the career progression even longer with a C-scale.
I’m wondering how many will join AC in the coming years…

I can't afford to go to AC and make second year Encore FO rates. Seriously, what the funk is up with that?

Much better to stay at Encore and collect those riches.

[imjustlurking]

And again, Encore pilots will get screwed and will only be able to flow to swoop/sunwing which will make the career progression even longer with a C-scale.
I’m wondering how many will join AC in the coming years…

I can't afford to go to AC and make second year Encore FO rates. Seriously, what the funk is up with that?

Much better to stay at Encore and collect those riches.

Don't kid yourself... Encore pilots make more money than McDonalds fry cooks! They are treated better than Gulag prisoners, happier than Paramore fans, and don't have to worry about deicing more than six times in a day...