Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:39 am

qwe221sd wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:43 am

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:41 am

Just curious to which other careers they went into? I am thinking of leaving aviation as well and am considering my options...

Why did you want to come? And why do you want to leave? Isn't it recovering?

I got into flying in my 20s for the love of the craft. Now I am in my 30s with a family, mortgage, cars and need more money to support all of that. I still love the flying just not the industry. It is recovering but wages are stagnant while cost of living is out of control.

What are you flying now? I think a 705 captain makes acceptable pay compare to average wage in Canada.
But I don't know the real circumstance I am considering to do flight training.

I dont even know how someone explains to their spouse the pay & schedule at AC

qwe221sd wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 5:09 am

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:39 am

qwe221sd wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:43 am
Why did you want to come? And why do you want to leave? Isn't it recovering?

I got into flying in my 20s for the love of the craft. Now I am in my 30s with a family, mortgage, cars and need more money to support all of that. I still love the flying just not the industry. It is recovering but wages are stagnant while cost of living is out of control.

What are you flying now? I think a 705 captain makes acceptable pay compare to average wage in Canada.
But I don't know the real circumstance I am considering to do flight training.

I am a 705 captain at a regional. Pay is only enough if you are single, forget raising a family on regional captain pay in YYZ/YVR...

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:18 am

qwe221sd wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 5:09 am

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:39 am
I got into flying in my 20s for the love of the craft. Now I am in my 30s with a family, mortgage, cars and need more money to support all of that. I still love the flying just not the industry. It is recovering but wages are stagnant while cost of living is out of control.

What are you flying now? I think a 705 captain makes acceptable pay compare to average wage in Canada.
But I don't know the real circumstance I am considering to do flight training.

I am a 705 captain at a regional. Pay is only enough if you are single, forget raising a family on regional captain pay in YYZ/YVR...

What's your plan? move on ULCC and fly b737? I guess that you didn't consider AC because of flat pay .
Honestly, buy a house in yyz or yvr is hard not only for pilot.

There is definitely a pilots shortage. One thing we don't talk about is how big fleet numbers have become. Even before major airline mergers, the sum of the two airlines didn't equal what they are today. Commercial airline fleet numbers have exploded in the past two decades.

SWA 700+
Delta 800+
United 800+
AA. 900+

Then consider how big the Asian commercial airline industry has grown in the 2000.

Then there's Europe.


Then think of all the not so big name airlines.

qwe221sd wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:48 am

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:18 am

qwe221sd wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 5:09 am
What are you flying now? I think a 705 captain makes acceptable pay compare to average wage in Canada.
But I don't know the real circumstance I am considering to do flight training.

I am a 705 captain at a regional. Pay is only enough if you are single, forget raising a family on regional captain pay in YYZ/YVR...

What's your plan? move on ULCC and fly b737? I guess that you didn't consider AC because of flat pay .
Honestly, buy a house in yyz or yvr is hard not only for pilot.

I plan on leaving Canada and flying in the US or Asia for more money if I can. If not I will most likely leave the industry and do a top US MBA and try and get into finance/consulting or go back to engineering (my previous career).

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:07 am

qwe221sd wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:48 am

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:18 am

I am a 705 captain at a regional. Pay is only enough if you are single, forget raising a family on regional captain pay in YYZ/YVR...

What's your plan? move on ULCC and fly b737? I guess that you didn't consider AC because of flat pay .
Honestly, buy a house in yyz or yvr is hard not only for pilot.

I plan on leaving Canada and flying in the US or Asia for more money if I can. If not I will most likely leave the industry and do a top US MBA and try and get into finance/consulting or go back to engineering (my previous career).

Good job ! Mostly asian carriers hire 737/320 PIC maybe middle east accept NTR but aisa is recovering slowly. My plan is go to asia too after I get some experience.
US is a good option if you have green card or try cape air for sponsoring .

GoHomeLeg wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:26 pm There is definitely a pilots shortage. One thing we don't talk about is how big fleet numbers have become. Even before major airline mergers, the sum of the two airlines didn't equal what they are today. Commercial airline fleet numbers have exploded in the past two decades.

SWA 700+
Delta 800+
United 800+
AA. 900+

Then consider how big the Asian commercial airline industry has grown in the 2000.

Then there's Europe.


Then think of all the not so big name airlines.

The shortage is a lie. Here are US numbers

Except thats wildly simplistic. Pilots do not just replace retirements, every airline is expanding. The majors along said they need 15,000 new hires this year.

newlygrounded wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:42 pm

GoHomeLeg wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:26 pm There is definitely a pilots shortage. One thing we don't talk about is how big fleet numbers have become. Even before major airline mergers, the sum of the two airlines didn't equal what they are today. Commercial airline fleet numbers have exploded in the past two decades.

SWA 700+
Delta 800+
United 800+
AA. 900+

Then consider how big the Asian commercial airline industry has grown in the 2000.

Then there's Europe.


Then think of all the not so big name airlines.

The shortage is a lie. Here are US numbers

So which set of figures are you claiming is correct, the one in the text or the one in the graphic?

C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:02 pm Except thats wildly simplistic. Pilots do not just replace retirements, every airline is expanding. The majors along said they need 15,000 new hires this year.

AA/UA/DL/SW/FedEx/UPS/JB are hiring approx 8300 in 2022. Slightly more in 2023. So the 15000 number would be closer to a 2 year total.

Not included are carriers like Alaska/Frontier/Spirit and all of the regionals. If they were included, the number could approach 15000 for 2022.

Right now, the regionals and the 3 carriers listed above are being cleaned out by hiring of the majors (JB also losing pilots to the big 6).

rudder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:40 am

C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:02 pm Except thats wildly simplistic. Pilots do not just replace retirements, every airline is expanding. The majors along said they need 15,000 new hires this year.

AA/UA/DL/SW/FedEx/UPS/JB are hiring approx 8300 in 2022. Slightly more in 2023. So the 15000 number would be closer to a 2 year total.

Not included are carriers like Alaska/Frontier/Spirit and all of the regionals. If they were included, the number could approach 15000 for 2022.

Right now, the regionals and the 3 carriers listed above are being cleaned out by hiring of the majors (JB also losing pilots to the big 6).

Pilot shortage is exclusive for US. Canada side is a joke.

qwe221sd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:05 am

rudder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:40 am

C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:02 pm Except thats wildly simplistic. Pilots do not just replace retirements, every airline is expanding. The majors along said they need 15,000 new hires this year.

AA/UA/DL/SW/FedEx/UPS/JB are hiring approx 8300 in 2022. Slightly more in 2023. So the 15000 number would be closer to a 2 year total.

Not included are carriers like Alaska/Frontier/Spirit and all of the regionals. If they were included, the number could approach 15000 for 2022.

Right now, the regionals and the 3 carriers listed above are being cleaned out by hiring of the majors (JB also losing pilots to the big 6).

Pilot shortage is exclusive for US. Canada side is a joke.

The question in Canada is not the projected volume of hiring (quite high), but rather the amount of hiring in to good flying jobs. That is the critical difference between Canada and US.

rudder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:40 am The question in Canada is not the projected volume of hiring (quite high), but rather the amount of hiring in to good flying jobs. That is the critical difference between Canada and US.

There’s lot of postings out there right now for lots of 705 and higher end 704 ops. Obviously there are differences between all of them. For a guy or gal sitting at a 703 or flight school with 1000-2000 hours I’d argue there hasn’t been a better time to get into a long term gig.

Heck even for a kid with a fresh MIFR, getting right seat on a king air or b1900 at 250tt.

On top of that the choice we as pilots have for companies has never been better in Canada. Don’t feel like moving to YYZ or YVR? No problem, go work for several companies that have bases out of low cost of living areas. YEG, YWG, YOW, etc. Sorry if this is a bit of a tread drift. Obviously there are still the same old problems with aviation here which we all know too well, so I’m not gonna get into that. I think it’s safe to say most of us don’t have US Passports or we wouldn’t be here.

Start paying proper wages, give people reasonable schedule and chance to progress in their careers and you won't have a shortage.

Otherwise you will continue to have a "shortage" of slave pilots.

American Eagle ops decimated by pilot shortage - CEO

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... um=twitter

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:39 am I got into flying in my 20s for the love of the craft. Now I am in my 30s with a family, mortgage, cars and need more money to support all of that. I still love the flying just not the industry. It is recovering but wages are stagnant while cost of living is out of control.

I'd suggest that your complaint would be the same across pretty much any industry or career at the present time...
You've mentioned engineering, but your earning potential in aviation is somewhat greater, I think? Only problem is the pay cuts you've got to take to get there!

North Shore wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:22 am

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:39 am I got into flying in my 20s for the love of the craft. Now I am in my 30s with a family, mortgage, cars and need more money to support all of that. I still love the flying just not the industry. It is recovering but wages are stagnant while cost of living is out of control.

I'd suggest that your complaint would be the same across pretty much any industry or career at the present time...
You've mentioned engineering, but your earning potential in aviation is somewhat greater, I think? Only problem is the pay cuts you've got to take to get there!

Only in the last few years. You're likely to break 100k (and more) much sooner in your career. If you add everything up, it will likely be the same, with probably a bigger chance to go even higher as an engineer. I'd also say it's much more predictable in terms of employment and staying employed. Changing jobs rarely requires moving to another province.

But it's a completely different lifestyle. It might scare young people off (less adventure), but it might be appreciated by older folks.

digits_ wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:27 am

North Shore wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:22 am

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:39 am I got into flying in my 20s for the love of the craft. Now I am in my 30s with a family, mortgage, cars and need more money to support all of that. I still love the flying just not the industry. It is recovering but wages are stagnant while cost of living is out of control.

I'd suggest that your complaint would be the same across pretty much any industry or career at the present time...
You've mentioned engineering, but your earning potential in aviation is somewhat greater, I think? Only problem is the pay cuts you've got to take to get there!

Only in the last few years. You're likely to break 100k (and more) much sooner in your career. If you add everything up, it will likely be the same, with probably a bigger chance to go even higher as an engineer. I'd also say it's much more predictable in terms of employment and staying employed. Changing jobs rarely requires moving to another province.

But it's a completely different lifestyle. It might scare young people off (less adventure), but it might be appreciated by older folks.

I think it depends on the type of engineering. I have a background in tech/software and that happens to be the highest paid engineering at the moment, especially in the US if working on the TN visa.

Aviation is more fun though but fun doesn't buy the wife the house and car she wants...

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:18 am

digits_ wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:27 am

North Shore wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:22 am

I'd suggest that your complaint would be the same across pretty much any industry or career at the present time...
You've mentioned engineering, but your earning potential in aviation is somewhat greater, I think? Only problem is the pay cuts you've got to take to get there!

Only in the last few years. You're likely to break 100k (and more) much sooner in your career. If you add everything up, it will likely be the same, with probably a bigger chance to go even higher as an engineer. I'd also say it's much more predictable in terms of employment and staying employed. Changing jobs rarely requires moving to another province.

But it's a completely different lifestyle. It might scare young people off (less adventure), but it might be appreciated by older folks.

I think it depends on the type of engineering. I have a background in tech/software and that happens to be the highest paid engineering at the moment, especially in the US if working on the TN visa.

Aviation is more fun though but fun doesn't buy the wife the house and car she wants...

What engineering would pay worse? Or at least worse than pilots?

digits_ wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:03 am

Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:18 am

digits_ wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:27 am

Only in the last few years. You're likely to break 100k (and more) much sooner in your career. If you add everything up, it will likely be the same, with probably a bigger chance to go even higher as an engineer. I'd also say it's much more predictable in terms of employment and staying employed. Changing jobs rarely requires moving to another province.

But it's a completely different lifestyle. It might scare young people off (less adventure), but it might be appreciated by older folks.

I think it depends on the type of engineering. I have a background in tech/software and that happens to be the highest paid engineering at the moment, especially in the US if working on the TN visa.

Aviation is more fun though but fun doesn't buy the wife the house and car she wants...

What engineering would pay worse? Or at least worse than pilots?

Most of the other engineering fields (civil, mechanical, electrical) have a salary range from roughly 50-150K and don't really go above that unless you go into management, consult in a specialized niche, or start a company. I guess petroleum/chemical engineering pays well too but the jobs in that field are more variable and go up and down kind of like aviation depending on the price and demand for oil.