Is Flow to AC over?

[Inverted2]

They have no reason to honour the 60% agreement. Why would they? It’s in their best interest to take pilots from the competition and keep you at Jazz making peanuts.
Are any of you AC hopefuls going to call them out on it? They could make flat pay 35k a year and most of you would be jumping over each other to get there. Sure the union can stomp its feet and issue statements but it won’t change a thing.

[Fanblade]

They have no reason to honour the 60% agreement. Why would they? It’s in their best interest to take pilots from the competition and keep you at Jazz making peanuts.
Are any of you AC hopefuls going to call them out on it? They could make flat pay 35k a year and most of you would be jumping over each other to get there. Sure the union can stomp its feet and issue statements but it won’t change a thing.

I think you may have miss read the thread.

Canada is a large thinly populated country. As such AC and WJ for that matter, are far more dependent on regional lift than their US counterparts. Many cities in the US have catchment areas with populations large enough they don’t need feed into them, and can still support flying by multiple carriers all over the world

Air Canada with possibly the exception of YYZ has no such catchment areas. AC is dependent on regional lift to meet its international ambitions.

Air Canada’s intent with the flow through was to use it as a carrot to staff Jazz at a wage discount. Much like the US carriers did. Initially it worked. However the pilot shortage eventually rendered the carrot ineffective on its own. Exactly what is happening now at Jazz.

This is about what AC is doing to attract talent at Jazz. It has nothing to do with attracting talent to AC. Currently AC is contracting its regional feed due to the failure to attract and retain talent. This isn’t a go forward strategy.

Jazz can’t attract talent with its current wages and a flow through. It will only get worse if the flow carrot vanishes, becomes inconsistent or unpredictable.

[CanadianBronco]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CobTK6gNxt1/

[truedude]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CobTK6gNxt1/

Right... And he knows what? Nothing most likely. And you know, not everyone wants to work for AC.

[PostmasterGeneral]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CobTK6gNxt1/

Right... And he knows what? Nothing most likely. And you know, not everyone wants to work for AC.

That one sailed right above you I think…

[truedude]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CobTK6gNxt1/

Right... And he knows what? Nothing most likely. And you know, not everyone wants to work for AC.

That one sailed right above you I think…

Suppose I walked into that one... well played!

[JoeyBarton]

They have no reason to honour the 60% agreement. Why would they? It’s in their best interest to take pilots from the competition and keep you at Jazz making peanuts.
Are any of you AC hopefuls going to call them out on it? They could make flat pay 35k a year and most of you would be jumping over each other to get there. Sure the union can stomp its feet and issue statements but it won’t change a thing.

I think you may have miss read the thread.

Canada is a large thinly populated country. As such AC and WJ for that matter, are far more dependent on regional lift than their US counterparts. Many cities in the US have catchment areas with populations large enough they don’t need feed into them, and can still support flying by multiple carriers all over the world

Air Canada with possibly the exception of YYZ has no such catchment areas. AC is dependent on regional lift to meet its international ambitions.

Air Canada’s intent with the flow through was to use it as a carrot to staff Jazz at a wage discount. Much like the US carriers did. Initially it worked. However the pilot shortage eventually rendered the carrot ineffective on its own. Exactly what is happening now at Jazz.

This is about what AC is doing to attract talent at Jazz. It has nothing to do with attracting talent to AC. Currently AC is contracting its regional feed due to the failure to attract and retain talent. This isn’t a go forward strategy.

Jazz can’t attract talent with its current wages and a flow through. It will only get worse if the flow carrot vanishes, becomes inconsistent or unpredictable.

Very well, we all know that in all honesty. Now what does the future hold and is AC management working on the staffing issues at Jazz yes or no?

[truedude]

They have no reason to honour the 60% agreement. Why would they? It’s in their best interest to take pilots from the competition and keep you at Jazz making peanuts.
Are any of you AC hopefuls going to call them out on it? They could make flat pay 35k a year and most of you would be jumping over each other to get there. Sure the union can stomp its feet and issue statements but it won’t change a thing.

I think you may have miss read the thread.

Canada is a large thinly populated country. As such AC and WJ for that matter, are far more dependent on regional lift than their US counterparts. Many cities in the US have catchment areas with populations large enough they don’t need feed into them, and can still support flying by multiple carriers all over the world

Air Canada with possibly the exception of YYZ has no such catchment areas. AC is dependent on regional lift to meet its international ambitions.

Air Canada’s intent with the flow through was to use it as a carrot to staff Jazz at a wage discount. Much like the US carriers did. Initially it worked. However the pilot shortage eventually rendered the carrot ineffective on its own. Exactly what is happening now at Jazz.

This is about what AC is doing to attract talent at Jazz. It has nothing to do with attracting talent to AC. Currently AC is contracting its regional feed due to the failure to attract and retain talent. This isn’t a go forward strategy.

Jazz can’t attract talent with its current wages and a flow through. It will only get worse if the flow carrot vanishes, becomes inconsistent or unpredictable.

Very well, we all know that in all honesty. Now what does the future hold and is AC management working on the staffing issues at Jazz yes or no?

Who knows what the future holds. And if AC is working on staffing issues, there has been no indication that they are taking it seriously, or are even seem to care.

[Fanblade]

I think you may have miss read the thread.

Canada is a large thinly populated country. As such AC and WJ for that matter, are far more dependent on regional lift than their US counterparts. Many cities in the US have catchment areas with populations large enough they don’t need feed into them, and can still support flying by multiple carriers all over the world

Air Canada with possibly the exception of YYZ has no such catchment areas. AC is dependent on regional lift to meet its international ambitions.

Air Canada’s intent with the flow through was to use it as a carrot to staff Jazz at a wage discount. Much like the US carriers did. Initially it worked. However the pilot shortage eventually rendered the carrot ineffective on its own. Exactly what is happening now at Jazz.

This is about what AC is doing to attract talent at Jazz. It has nothing to do with attracting talent to AC. Currently AC is contracting its regional feed due to the failure to attract and retain talent. This isn’t a go forward strategy.

Jazz can’t attract talent with its current wages and a flow through. It will only get worse if the flow carrot vanishes, becomes inconsistent or unpredictable.

Very well, we all know that in all honesty. Now what does the future hold and is AC management working on the staffing issues at Jazz yes or no?

Who knows what the future holds. And if AC is working on staffing issues, there has been no indication that they are taking it seriously, or are even seem to care.

They plan summer peak for staffing. They aren’t currently looking beyond summer 2023. Give it 6-8 months. The deeper they dig the better.

[truedude]

So sad that they essentially abandoned this summer. Didn't need to be like this had they chosen to deal with the problem, instead of pretending there wasn't one.

[Nick678]

Since the MEC still hasn’t grieved the flow issue and the process is monitored quarterly, why the F wasn’t this dealt with last year? Before 300 Jazz pilots got screwed. Great to see how many WJ/encore pilots going over taking Jazz spots.

[kiaszceski]

Since the MEC still hasn’t grieved the flow issue and the process is monitored quarterly, why the F wasn’t this dealt with last year? Before 300 Jazz pilots got screwed. Great to see how many WJ/encore pilots going over taking Jazz spots.

Did you ask the MEC about this?

[Nick678]

Reps don’t know anything, I asked.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Reps don’t know anything, I asked.

They know they are retiring with a very healthy pension.

[averageatbest]

Since the MEC still hasn’t grieved the flow issue and the process is monitored quarterly, why the F wasn’t this dealt with last year? Before 300 Jazz pilots got screwed. Great to see how many WJ/encore pilots going over taking Jazz spots.

Are you a Jazz pilot?

You had the opportunity to file a grievance, but lost it 30 days after you became aware of the situation as per 26-2.01 of you CBA.

[pirep]

In the last earnings report last week, they said they have no problem filling ground schools in anticipation for flow so...?

[wing'd]

They have been an insane amount of people getting hired.
I personally know 3 instructors with 600hrs who are getting in

[tdp19]

They have been an insane amount of people getting hired.
I personally know 3 instructors with 600hrs who are getting in

No different then hiring straight from Seneca or Saulte

[rudder]

They have been an insane amount of people getting hired.
I personally know 3 instructors with 600hrs who are getting in

No different then hiring straight from Seneca or Saulte

Yup.

Any hiring without an ATPL means unqualified for upgrade for quite a while, not that pilots with little or no 705 experience should be upgraded.

Jazz needs an upgrade matrix ………… and new pay rates.

[goldeneagle]

They have been an insane amount of people getting hired.
I personally know 3 instructors with 600hrs who are getting in

No different then hiring straight from Seneca or Saulte

Actually it's a big difference. The 600 hour instructor wont need pretend-a-pic time to get an ATPL.

[rudder]

They have been an insane amount of people getting hired.
I personally know 3 instructors with 600hrs who are getting in

No different then hiring straight from Seneca or Saulte

Actually it's a big difference. The 600 hour instructor wont need pretend-a-pic time to get an ATPL.

When you are having a debate over who is better qualified for a Part 705 job:

a) 250 hour pilot

b) 600 hour pilot

c) 1000 hour pilot

…… then that pretty well describes where the pilot supply chain sits in 2023. In the old days, this was the difference between the day you got your CPL and maybe 8 months later. Are there people that believe 8 months makes a difference? How about 2-3 years in the real flying world.

[ICauseProblems]

No different then hiring straight from Seneca or Saulte

Actually it's a big difference. The 600 hour instructor wont need pretend-a-pic time to get an ATPL.

When you are having a debate over who is better qualified for a Part 705 job:

a) 250 hour pilot

b) 600 hour pilot

c) 1000 hour pilot

…… then that pretty well describes where the pilot supply chain sits in 2023. In the old days, this was the difference between the day you got your CPL and maybe 8 months later. Are there people that believe 8 months makes a difference? How about 2-3 years in the real flying world.

Rudder. How dare you say something so controversial yet so brave.

[canadianpilot101]

Since the MEC still hasn’t grieved the flow issue and the process is monitored quarterly, why the F wasn’t this dealt with last year? Before 300 Jazz pilots got screwed. Great to see how many WJ/encore pilots going over taking Jazz spots.

Are you a Jazz pilot?

You had the opportunity to file a grievance, but lost it 30 days after you became aware of the situation as per 26-2.01 of you CBA.

Wasn't really Jazz Spots..

[cdnavater]

Since the MEC still hasn’t grieved the flow issue and the process is monitored quarterly, why the F wasn’t this dealt with last year? Before 300 Jazz pilots got screwed. Great to see how many WJ/encore pilots going over taking Jazz spots.

Are you a Jazz pilot?

You had the opportunity to file a grievance, but lost it 30 days after you became aware of the situation as per 26-2.01 of you CBA.

Wasn't really Jazz Spots..

Can you justify that statement?
There were ground school spots that should have gone to Jazz pilots based on a three party agreement, if a Jazz pilot should’ve been there, it is a de facto Jazz pilot spot.
Harm was done to Jazz pilots, financial and QOL based on how many pilots are now ahead of them, we will see what those, “Jazz Spots” are worth when the dust settles

[Loon-A-Tic]

Are you a Jazz pilot?

You had the opportunity to file a grievance, but lost it 30 days after you became aware of the situation as per 26-2.01 of you CBA.

Wasn't really Jazz Spots..

Can you justify that statement?
There were ground school spots that should have gone to Jazz pilots based on a three party agreement, if a Jazz pilot should’ve been there, it is a de facto Jazz pilot spot.
Harm was done to Jazz pilots, financial and QOL based on how many pilots are now ahead of them, we will see what those, “Jazz Spots” are worth when the dust settles

When did the flow percentage change from 60% to 100% for Jazz pilots. There remains 40% available for "other" equally deserving pilots hoping to advance their career as well.