Eagle Air

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pdw
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by pdw »

Studying ATC’s link above, there was lament about the fuel gauge accuracy and incidentally five years later the appeal got that criminal portion quashed (Grand forks news article). The 3/4 mark was the starting fuel level judged adequate for that 2002 3 hour flight-time estimate (to/from full payloads in mind).

On many fuel systems on cars …I found the two top quarters, the full quarter above the 3/4 line or the quarter below, are each at times capable of representing a lot more fuel (burn time) than is the bottom quarter. Not sure if that could happen on some aircraft as well.

A lady goes through a yellow light on our street and gets pulled over for running a red. Before her court case she spent three days with a stopwatch checking the yellow’s duration and could show the judge proof of her suspicion there was a two second difference between the lengths of the yellow light from longest to shortest. Judge agreed.
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sunk
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by sunk »

So do they get an. Audit? Or Is TC even worried about things like this?
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piperdriver
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by piperdriver »

sunk wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:05 pm So do they get an. Audit? Or Is TC even worried about things like this?
No, TC is too busy working from home.
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Roundel Randy
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by Roundel Randy »

cdnavater wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:01 pm There’s two paved roads that run north south on either end of the Selkirk strip and several farm fields in the vicinity, plus even more mile roads in the same area, just look at google maps, it’s plentiful with forced landing areas.
Even further, this pilot would have flown right past Selkirk on a direct track from Sachigo to YAV, he made a choice to try and cover up this mistake or the gauges were over reading, my money is on him hoping to make it to base and make up some bs to the passengers about why the engine quit, never ever filing a report.
But, I’m a pessimist!
A road, provided it is empty or mostly empty, is almost always a better option than a farmer's field or a short runway in a complete engine out procedure. It's mostly flat, even, and straight as well as extending for a considerable distance. A farmer's field presents many challenges to land on, especially with a retractable tricycle landing gear on an aircraft with a higher Vref than a 172 or Warrior.

The gravel road he landed on was probably empty at the time whereas the other paved roads would have likely had vehicle traffic. Anyways, he didn't have much time to make a decision, he made the decision, stuck with it, and executed it without damage or injury. There are lessons learned, but everything worked out in the end.
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2112
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by 2112 »

Roundel Randy wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:55 pm
cdnavater wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:01 pm There’s two paved roads that run north south on either end of the Selkirk strip and several farm fields in the vicinity, plus even more mile roads in the same area, just look at google maps, it’s plentiful with forced landing areas.
Even further, this pilot would have flown right past Selkirk on a direct track from Sachigo to YAV, he made a choice to try and cover up this mistake or the gauges were over reading, my money is on him hoping to make it to base and make up some bs to the passengers about why the engine quit, never ever filing a report.
But, I’m a pessimist!
A road, provided it is empty or mostly empty, is almost always a better option than a farmer's field or a short runway in a complete engine out procedure. It's mostly flat, even, and straight as well as extending for a considerable distance. A farmer's field presents many challenges to land on, especially with a retractable tricycle landing gear on an aircraft with a higher Vref than a 172 or Warrior.

The gravel road he landed on was probably empty at the time whereas the other paved roads would have likely had vehicle traffic. Anyways, he didn't have much time to make a decision, he made the decision, stuck with it, and executed it without damage or injury. There are lessons learned, but everything worked out in the end.

Worked out this time anyways. This was about as stupid as dumb luck can get.
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pelmet
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by pelmet »

2112 wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:22 pm
Roundel Randy wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:55 pm
cdnavater wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:01 pm There’s two paved roads that run north south on either end of the Selkirk strip and several farm fields in the vicinity, plus even more mile roads in the same area, just look at google maps, it’s plentiful with forced landing areas.
Even further, this pilot would have flown right past Selkirk on a direct track from Sachigo to YAV, he made a choice to try and cover up this mistake or the gauges were over reading, my money is on him hoping to make it to base and make up some bs to the passengers about why the engine quit, never ever filing a report.
But, I’m a pessimist!
A road, provided it is empty or mostly empty, is almost always a better option than a farmer's field or a short runway in a complete engine out procedure. It's mostly flat, even, and straight as well as extending for a considerable distance. A farmer's field presents many challenges to land on, especially with a retractable tricycle landing gear on an aircraft with a higher Vref than a 172 or Warrior.

The gravel road he landed on was probably empty at the time whereas the other paved roads would have likely had vehicle traffic. Anyways, he didn't have much time to make a decision, he made the decision, stuck with it, and executed it without damage or injury. There are lessons learned, but everything worked out in the end.

Worked out this time anyways. This was about as stupid as dumb luck can get.
Actually,

His potential future employers have had great ire dumb luck……AC and AT. This guy is now has proven his qualification and should get the same trophy award.
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pdw
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by pdw »

A trophy, wow! The PIC could speak up if the extra Gerry can fuel volume would have put it over legal gross for the outbound leg up or the turnaround one or two low— with all the baggage/gear going each way on regular basis where no fuel/defuelling is available. It’s doubtfull that it’s legal or practical to have your own spare fuel can up there in case of a slight homebase burn rate undercalculation, figured in advance for the homebound legs, where that so easily risks becoming that squeeze at play here, between the two weight concerns conflicting. (Two Gerry cans in one of the news photos).
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Last edited by pdw on Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PilotDAR
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by PilotDAR »

It’s doubtfull that it’s legal or practical to have your own spare fuel can up there in case of a slight homebase burn rate undercalculation,
Indeed... dangerous goods on a pax flight!?!

If you're flying a Navajo, and a gerry can of fuel is going to make the difference, you're already in bigger trouble that you realize!
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pelmet
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by pelmet »

PilotDAR wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:49 pm
It’s doubtfull that it’s legal or practical to have your own spare fuel can up there in case of a slight homebase burn rate undercalculation,
Indeed... dangerous goods on a pax flight!?!

If you're flying a Navajo, and a gerry can of fuel is going to make the difference, you're already in bigger trouble that you realize!
Twin Otters going to the North Pole back in the day used to carry a bunch of extra fuel drums for in-flight refueling using a system designed for refueling on the ground. It is tiring moving fully loaded 45 gallon fuel drums around at 13,000' and above.
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pdw
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by pdw »

That was to mean laterally “up there” and zero agl. I see now going that far up north to that lake via ground transportation is only possible by ice road in winter.

I realize the Gerry can is small against the full 192 US gallons. But here it’s 15lbs short of the runway after reserve burned through on a near full range trip. A number of smaller factors can still add up ….
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pelmet
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Re: Eagle Air

Post by pelmet »

C-GMOB, a Piper PA-31-350 operated by Eagle Air Enterprises Limited, was conducting a VFR
flight from Sachigo Lake Airport (CZPB), ON. to Winnipeg/James Armstrong Richardson
International Airport (CYWG), MB. with one pilot and six passengers. When the aircraft was
enroute and approximately 25 minutes north of CYWG, a fuel level concern was identified, and a
decision was made to divert to Winnipeg/St. Andrews Airport (CYAV), MB. During the diversion to
CYAV, the left engine ran out of fuel. ATC was notified and, at approximately 5.5 nm north of
CYAV, the right engine started to sputter. The pilot conducted a landing on a gravel road. There
were no injuries to the passengers and no damage to the aircraft. RCMP, the local fire department
and EMS attended to the scene.

...from TSB.
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