So over at TransAt.......PAY ATTENTION!

[rookiepilot]

If you're not with us, you're against us.

George Bush has entered the chat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

[daedalusx]

Everyone has had enough time now...

Going forward no pilot will ride my jump:

- without a red WCC lanyard on their raic
- blue lanyard doesn't cut it until we ratify
- if upon looking at reportlink I see suspicious activity
- that they have VO in the last number of months
- slid days on RSV
- extended UOC

If you're not with us, you're against us.

No buying beers and coffees and covering tips for FOs without a WCC lanyard either. You stand to gain the most!

I'm looking at all of us. Get with the program, unity on display is what gets this done. If you aren't doing your part you are the reason we are going to strike. You hurt yourself, your colleagues, your airline, every day you aren't with it.

If every AC pilot had that same attitude, things would have changed a long time ago. But noooo, Canadian pilots are absolute cowards and will bitch and moan about flat pay and housing prices, yet they’ll be afraid to wear a lanyard

[Man_in_the_sky]

Everyone has had enough time now...

Going forward no pilot will ride my jump:

- without a red WCC lanyard on their raic
- blue lanyard doesn't cut it until we ratify
- if upon looking at reportlink I see suspicious activity
- that they have VO in the last number of months
- slid days on RSV
- extended UOC

If you're not with us, you're against us.

No buying beers and coffees and covering tips for FOs without a WCC lanyard either. You stand to gain the most!

I'm looking at all of us. Get with the program, unity on display is what gets this done. If you aren't doing your part you are the reason we are going to strike. You hurt yourself, your colleagues, your airline, every day you aren't with it.

Sorry, new about the whole reserve stuff

Is sliding day on RSV seen as bad ?

[unionism101]

Everyone has had enough time now...

Going forward no pilot will ride my jump:

- without a red WCC lanyard on their raic
- blue lanyard doesn't cut it until we ratify
- if upon looking at reportlink I see suspicious activity
- that they have VO in the last number of months
- slid days on RSV
- extended UOC

If you're not with us, you're against us.

No buying beers and coffees and covering tips for FOs without a WCC lanyard either. You stand to gain the most!

I'm looking at all of us. Get with the program, unity on display is what gets this done. If you aren't doing your part you are the reason we are going to strike. You hurt yourself, your colleagues, your airline, every day you aren't with it.

The Top Poster has spoken! Glad you to see you only work minimum hours so FOs don't have to fly with you that much. Working with you sounds like working with a dictator. Besides how are you going to keep that keyboard warrior, sorry, top poster badge while working like a normal person.

I wear my red lanyard, but I might just start doing VO whenever I can so I can watch you seethe.

Mac & Cheese,

You would only be so lucky to fly with altiplano.

If we had followed him instead of the idiot shills we would be WAY ahead to what we are now

If triggering guys by doing VO gets you off, you do your thing

[Dry Guy]

I honestly think this constant lanyard posting does more harm than good.

[Army of one]

Sorry, new about the whole reserve stuff. Is sliding day on RSV seen as bad ?

In a word, yes.

Things like sliding days, sim vol, VO, selling vacation, extending duty days may seem insignificant to many, but think of it this way.

Anything that seems good for you in the very short term helps the company more than it helps you.

Every time you help the company in the short term, it will negatively impact yourself, in the long term. We have overwhelming data to back that up, it has contributed greatly to your WAWCON, such as you being on shit flat pay for four years, among many many others.

The more of our pilots that do the small things right, the more we will all benefit in the long term.

Hang in there, appreciate you being on side.

[Army of one]

I honestly think this constant lanyard posting does more harm than good.

You might be right, pathetic that it's even an issue, but that is the Air Canada Pilot way. ALPA has not changed much it seems to me.. I honestly think that soon you won't have to worry about it.

Lanyards are the very tip of the iceberg. Have a look around and you will see many clear indicators pointing to another underwhelming and pathetic CA for the pilots at Air Canada.

[Army of one]

Working with you sounds like working with a dictator.

I wear my red lanyard, but I might just start doing VO whenever I can so I can watch you seethe.

Dictator? For real? Is that sarcasm? Surely thats sarcasm.

If you feel that distressed by red lanyards, toss yours in the garbage, put your Air Canada one back on. If you are the kind of pilot that hates lanyards, clip your RAIC on but wrap the Air Canada lanyard one around the handle of your flight bag.. If it's too long, throw it in the garbage, wear your Air Canada one. If red is not your colour, clashes with your eye color, again, throw it in the garbage. Who cares. Its just a lanyard.

And yaaaaaassssss!! Do some VO while you're at it, just so you can watch your bro seethe.. Don't stop there, jump into some SIM VOLs while you're at it, sell some Vacation, extend your duty days, dont book off when you're sick. You can watch your bro really seethe then,.. for a few days,.. and then,.. work under even more pathetic WAWCON for the next 3-5 years. Sounds like you got it figured out. In fact your's may be the post of the year, bravo.

You're welcome.

[Army of one]

Duplicate

[altiplano]

Everyone has had enough time now...

Going forward no pilot will ride my jump:

- without a red WCC lanyard on their raic
- blue lanyard doesn't cut it until we ratify
- if upon looking at reportlink I see suspicious activity
- that they have VO in the last number of months
- slid days on RSV
- extended UOC

If you're not with us, you're against us.

No buying beers and coffees and covering tips for FOs without a WCC lanyard either. You stand to gain the most!

I'm looking at all of us. Get with the program, unity on display is what gets this done. If you aren't doing your part you are the reason we are going to strike. You hurt yourself, your colleagues, your airline, every day you aren't with it.

Sorry, new about the whole reserve stuff

Is sliding day on RSV seen as bad ?

If you're helping the company by crewing flights and helping them cover voluntarily when you don't have to that's bad.

We need pressure on them now, when it's easy for us, at work with our normal paycheque twice a month. This pressure will help our NC bring us the deal we want by showing solidarity and costing them.

If we keep showing them that we are willing to continue to help, to do the extra, despite the shit contract, despite pulling our Bs, despite the layoffs, despite 4 year flat, despite FOS, despite not coming to the table in the spring when we asked them... it shows us as weak and lacking solidarity, this will drive us to have to pursue the difficult labour action when we get locked out or strike.

Fly your block. Enjoy your time off. Do it now when it's easy, or we are going to be forced to do it under less favorable conditions.

[WhataYoke]

So when are we going to finally see the results of these negots that have been going on for almost 6 months now? The rest of Canada is waiting on AC ALPA to do something sitting on the edge of our seats.

[altiplano]

No deal is better than bringing forward a bad deal.

With the amount of work we have tasked this NC with, it's no surprise that this takes a lot of time. I think we all know how deficient the AC Pilot contract is and in how many areas.

Also, look to the South, United took a couple years to get a deal.

Also, we all know how cheap Air Canada is. They'll blow money on bullshit, but they won't spend money on their pilots.

If we want a deal sooner than later, if we want the deal without having to be pressured by going to an extended lockout/strike situation, if we want the World Class deal we told the MEC/NC we wanted, then every line pilot needs to get on board.

We pressure the company today by following the contract and going to work only when necessary. When flights cancel it costs them and shows them a real consequence for dragging this out. The BOD starts asking the CEO questions. We get the deal we want by showing them we are serious. We present a United front when we wear our lanyards and pins. We present a United front when crew sked calls to cover flying get crickets in response.

Get behind your NC/MEC if you want the big contract this profession demands, if you want to be leaders again in this industry.

The MEC has asked everyone to wear their lanyard in solidarity. No excuses.

[Bingo Fuel]

Perhaps this would be a more useful discussion over on the AC Pilot forum.

[a2btrail]

No deal is better than bringing forward a bad deal.

With the amount of work we have tasked this NC with, it's no surprise that this takes a lot of time. I think we all know how deficient the AC Pilot contract is and in how many areas.

Also, look to the South, United took a couple years to get a deal.

Also, we all know how cheap Air Canada is. They'll blow money on bullshit, but they won't spend money on their pilots.

If we want a deal sooner than later, if we want the deal without having to be pressured by going to an extended lockout/strike situation, if we want the World Class deal we told the MEC/NC we wanted, then every line pilot needs to get on board.

We pressure the company today by following the contract and going to work only when necessary. When flights cancel it costs them and shows them a real consequence for dragging this out. The BOD starts asking the CEO questions. We get the deal we want by showing them we are serious. We present a United front when we wear our lanyards and pins. We present a United front when crew sked calls to cover flying get crickets in response.

Get behind your NC/MEC if you want the big contract this profession demands, if you want to be leaders again in this industry.

The MEC has asked everyone to wear their lanyard in solidarity. No excuses.

Well said.

[ALPAisAwesome]

Sounds like this whole lanyard issue is a little myopic. Was the red pen effort used years ago a successful tactic?

I wear my red lanyard but I’m certainly not going to insult or berate anyone else that doesn’t. It’s just a symbol of support after all.

[rudder]

Sounds like this whole lanyard issue is a little myopic. Was the red pen effort used years ago a successful tactic?

I wear my red lanyard but I’m certainly not going to insult or berate anyone else that doesn’t. It’s just a symbol of support after all.

I have no dog in this fight but my experience tells me that all of the guns need to be pointed outwards not inwards for a successful outcome. Management is watching and loves to see pilots squabbling with each other. That has been their recipe for success for 20 years and results in 51% ratifications of marginal TA’s.

This process is going to take a while, particularly if the goal is truly a “world class contract”. Don’t let impatience resulting in infighting become an impediment to achieving that objective.

[unionism101]

Sounds like this whole lanyard issue is a little myopic. Was the red pen effort used years ago a successful tactic?

I wear my red lanyard but I’m certainly not going to insult or berate anyone else that doesn’t. It’s just a symbol of support after all.

Take a look at the pilots with the best contracts in the world

Was there any farting around with them when it came to lanyards?

Friends tell friends when they are being stupid. So yes, tell your peers to put on their damn lanyard

[altiplano]

That's it. Behave like United and Delta if you want United and Delta like results.

It's really fucking easy. The MEC has asked everyone to do something very very simple here: wear the lanyard.

Is that seriously too much? If you can't follow your leadership for one simple thing that they have said is important, something they went up against the company on, how can you be expected to really follow them when the chips are down and shit really hits the fan?

The company sees it. "Half the pilots wouldn't even put on a lanyard when their leadership told then to, they're going to fold like cheap shirts on their demands when we lock them out."

Symbols of solidarity are important because it translates to the calculations at the table and the discussions in the executive dining room.

If they see 5000 of us shoulder to shoulder with WCC lanyards, following Charlene and the MEC, following our MEC's direction, the company will be the ones folding at the table. They will calculate it's a fight that they don't want to take, they will know that they can't break us.

If everyone stops answering their phones on days off, stops helping them cover flying, the bottom line will be hit, guys at the top will start asking questions and the company's calculation will be to get the deal done, pay the pilots, we can't let this drag into Spring Break or Q3.

Doing these things will get us a better deal and get it to us sooner and with less disruption to our paycheques.

Not showing the company that you follow your MEC and that you don't stand in solidarity hurts all of us.

The stakes here are in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The stakes here are your standard of living and quality of life for the rest of your career.

Your leaders and your united brothers and sisters are screaming for you to join them and help us all earn the contract we all want and deserve.

It takes effort and lifting from every one of us for this to happen. Solidarity isn't something you can watch around you, it's something you have to be a part of.

[RippleRock]

There are a different breed of pilots on this side of the border. It's sad but true.

I carefully re-read the posts in this thread and there seems a half dozen that are "triggered" by the simple ask to wear the red lanyard. A half dozen on this forum actually posting means hundreds others flying the line that are acting the same. This is an abomination. There is NO WAY Delta pilots would NOT DO what their union asks of them. Look at where they are now, and look at where we are. EXACTLY. We were asked to wear the red lanyard, and there is NO excuse not to unless you truly believe this set of negotiations is a --wasted effort-- and Charlene does NOT have your best interest at heart.

The problem is, as Alti pointed out, is that UNLESS WE PUT ON A UNIFIED FRONT as asked, we are doomed. Full stop.

For those resistant to putting it on, I ask, "What is --your-- endgame?' What is your plan? Have you got this all sorted, so that "your path forward" to improving your quality of life and pay is the right one, and Charlene somehow has it all wrong? Or are you feeling guilty that the Company maybe pays you too much, or doesn't work you enough, having pension indexing stripped away isn't a big deal, the complete lack of a Commuter policy is just fine, or the 10% Cargo decrease isn't worth fighting for, or the B1's didn't really matter that much to you? Maybe you think ACPA had it "all sorted" with that last MOA and was about to use that "massive stockpile of dry powder" and "drawers full of letters of goodwill" that are now wasted, and that trusting a group of colluding traitors to "do us right" after 20 years of "backroom dealing" resulting in utter failure time after time was the "better play". Maybe you think 2% per year is just fine while continuing inflation absolutely destroys your paycheck and jeopardizes any future financial plans or hopes to have any significant purchases paid off....ever.

I'll let you in on a little secret. ACPA is DEAD. Any "powder" or "goodwill letters" died with them and they aren't ever coming back. Your new Union, ALPA and complying with their direct asks is your ONLY way to WACON redemption. Full stop.

For the record, our WACON is the worst of all Legacy Carriers on the Continent. PERIOD.

The ONLY WAY....ONLY WAY forward is to come together as ONE and stand up and fight. If you don't, you and I and everybody else will LOSE. Don't underestimate how bad that loss will be. You think you will make it up on VO? That's purely a fools errand. You and your family could be out to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, and literally hundreds of days more work -away from your family- and any leisure activities you enjoy over the span of your career.

Still think it's worth it not to comply with a simple Union request? Watch and see how it works out. This isn't a threat or bullying, it's just a simple fact. It's the way negotiations with Unions work. This is the time to make what will be likely the most impactful change to the way you live your life and how you are compensated for the time you work. DON'T BLOW IT.

[altiplano]

Right!?

I'd like to hear the reasoning from those of you that won't represent. Why don't you want to support your Association and colleagues on something so important.

- I'm spiteful and don't like ALPA
- i don't like the lanyard material
- I'm not a lanyard guy
- I'm pro-company and don't support us achieving gains
- I own 15000 AC shares I bought at $40 and that's my priority
- I'm too apathetic to reach out and get one
- I'm a coward and I don't want Murray to see me wearing it, just like I don't want other pilots to see my comments requesting VO in ReportLink

Or is it something else?

Whatever it is, it doesn't cut it. You are hurting yourself, your colleagues, and this profession by not being engaged and in solidarity with your peers. Get on board.

[kiaszceski]

Don't you guys have a private Telegram or Signal or FB page you can encourage your peers to do what's right and follow Charlene directives?
Seems flying the flag is worth sitting on a 60% raise... oh well.

[eyebrow737]

Right!?

I'd like to hear the reasoning from those of you that won't represent. Why don't you want to support your Association and colleagues on something so important.

- I'm spiteful and don't like ALPA
- i don't like the lanyard material
- I'm not a lanyard guy
- I'm pro-company and don't support us achieving gains
- I own 15000 AC shares I bought at $40 and that's my priority
- I'm too apathetic to reach out and get one
- I'm a coward and I don't want Murray to see me wearing it, just like I don't want other pilots to see my comments requesting VO in ReportLink

Or is it something else?

Whatever it is, it doesn't cut it. You are hurting yourself, your colleagues, and this profession by not being engaged and in solidarity with your peers. Get on board.

Let me be clear. I've been in this game coming up 40 years now. I've seen the current attitude here a few times before. I wear the ALPA lanyard, and personally am excited to see what they can do for us..finally.

What I do have a problem with is the people coming out of the woodwork thinking that bullying, intimidating and threatening their peers for something as small as wearing a colored fabric around their neck will have a positive effect.

You may not think it, is that, but let me tell you, if you don't think that the verbiage used in this thread is not the above you are fully in the middle of the PROBLEM.
We are treading down the same path of another much larger (now almost defunct airline) I worked for many years ago. There was a toxic culture very much the same as what I am seeing here. It ended up turning a great place to work with the best WACON in the world into a pile of steaming dung.

Most of you probably haven't been around long enough to see these cycles and degradations, but I can tell you now, AC is in the middle of it.

Maybe you all should start thinking about the bigger picture. You think we are going to get a world class contract? here in Canada? you're having a laugh. This will never change, you know why? Because of this cycle we are all stuck in, that is the Canadian mindset. Change that, and we will have a chance.

[fish4life]

So has anyone heard what the difference between the 2 AT fa contract offers ?

[RippleRock]

Right!?

I'd like to hear the reasoning from those of you that won't represent. Why don't you want to support your Association and colleagues on something so important.

- I'm spiteful and don't like ALPA
- i don't like the lanyard material
- I'm not a lanyard guy
- I'm pro-company and don't support us achieving gains
- I own 15000 AC shares I bought at $40 and that's my priority
- I'm too apathetic to reach out and get one
- I'm a coward and I don't want Murray to see me wearing it, just like I don't want other pilots to see my comments requesting VO in ReportLink

Or is it something else?

Whatever it is, it doesn't cut it. You are hurting yourself, your colleagues, and this profession by not being engaged and in solidarity with your peers. Get on board.

Let me be clear. I've been in this game coming up 40 years now. I've seen the current attitude here a few times before. I wear the ALPA lanyard, and personally am excited to see what they can do for us..finally.

What I do have a problem with is the people coming out of the woodwork thinking that bullying, intimidating and threatening their peers for something as small as wearing a colored fabric around their neck will have a positive effect.

You may not think it, is that, but let me tell you, if you don't think that the verbiage used in this thread is not the above you are fully in the middle of the PROBLEM.
We are treading down the same path of another much larger (now almost defunct airline) I worked for many years ago. There was a toxic culture very much the same as what I am seeing here. It ended up turning a great place to work with the best WACON in the world into a pile of steaming dung.

Most of you probably haven't been around long enough to see these cycles and degradations, but I can tell you now, AC is in the middle of it.

Maybe you all should start thinking about the bigger picture. You think we are going to get a world class contract? here in Canada? you're having a laugh. This will never change, you know why? Because of this cycle we are all stuck in, that is the Canadian mindset. Change that, and we will have a chance.

You are coming on this forum voluntarily so you should expect a response. Your 40 year opinion will be followed by a 25 year opinion, mine.

If you are wearing a red lanyard, or at minimum have one on your bag, thank you. This opinion doesn't apply to you, but there are many with the attitude you're displaying that have alterior motives; this applies to them. I will assume you don't wear one at this point unless you say otherwise.



I think this is bigger than just the "red lanyard" for you. You are likely doing VO, or are an ACPA symathizer of sorts, and you can't do that wearing a red lanyard. I see you guys every day. Wearing a clip on RAIC or a dark colored one carefully tucked under the tunic. You're almost always surrounded by your younger collegues proudly wearing red. It must be "uncomfortable for you at minimum". Doing VO wouldn't work wearing red. The paradox would be too apparent as other "red lanyard wearers" would notice. I'll bet you would have preferred the "status quo", as the ACPA schills and "management plants" stood up for guys like you, while ignoring the needs of most others. They let the WACON slide for everyone else but the most senior while sacrificing and essentially "eating their young". Nice. Now you're at the top, and you want the "cake" ACPA promised, everyone else's needs or desire for real change be damned.

If you have been here 40 years you know EXACTLY what you haven't done to protect the contract over the last 20, and YOU OWE THE MOST to the demographic that comes after you. Guys like you, myself included, should be ashamed about what we've let occur over the last 20 years. Most major changes went through a vote or poll. Most passed under your watch and mine.

The younger generation, now desperate for NEEDED change, know exactly who guys like you are. We see them every day. They need to start thinking about the legacy that 50 years of pilots built for them before they started here in the 80's and 90's, instead of seeing what they can "strip mine" from the WACON the pilots who came before them fought hard to create.....over decades.

Stand up and help the younger generation turn the contract around so it benefits everyone like it benefited you 40 years ago. At minimum, you do you, and stop whining about the change going on around you. It's LONG overdue to get back to what constitutes "real Unionism" around here.



What you guys are missing is that the faster we all "ACT AS ONE", the faster this is over (maybe without a strike) and all those VO hogs can hit the trough again with no guilt.


***Edited many times for poor grammer and poor spelling.

[altiplano]

Right!?

I'd like to hear the reasoning from those of you that won't represent. Why don't you want to support your Association and colleagues on something so important.

- I'm spiteful and don't like ALPA
- i don't like the lanyard material
- I'm not a lanyard guy
- I'm pro-company and don't support us achieving gains
- I own 15000 AC shares I bought at $40 and that's my priority
- I'm too apathetic to reach out and get one
- I'm a coward and I don't want Murray to see me wearing it, just like I don't want other pilots to see my comments requesting VO in ReportLink

Or is it something else?

Whatever it is, it doesn't cut it. You are hurting yourself, your colleagues, and this profession by not being engaged and in solidarity with your peers. Get on board.

Let me be clear. I've been in this game coming up 40 years now. I've seen the current attitude here a few times before. I wear the ALPA lanyard, and personally am excited to see what they can do for us..finally.

What I do have a problem with is the people coming out of the woodwork thinking that bullying, intimidating and threatening their peers for something as small as wearing a colored fabric around their neck will have a positive effect.

You may not think it, is that, but let me tell you, if you don't think that the verbiage used in this thread is not the above you are fully in the middle of the PROBLEM.
We are treading down the same path of another much larger (now almost defunct airline) I worked for many years ago. There was a toxic culture very much the same as what I am seeing here. It ended up turning a great place to work with the best WACON in the world into a pile of steaming dung.

Most of you probably haven't been around long enough to see these cycles and degradations, but I can tell you now, AC is in the middle of it.

Maybe you all should start thinking about the bigger picture. You think we are going to get a world class contract? here in Canada? you're having a laugh. This will never change, you know why? Because of this cycle we are all stuck in, that is the Canadian mindset. Change that, and we will have a chance.

I'm glad you are wearing your lanyard and are excited.

Pressure and expectation and firm resolve to achieve solidarity in the membership is not bullying. There is a loss of respect for individuals that chose to behave in a way that hurts the entire group. That's just a fact

There is a toxic culture at this airline, but it's not on the line or from the line. it comes from above. This is a top down organisation and they have created that with their decade plus of suppressing this group's quality of life, career control, and pay. Forcing people into pay rates so low for so long they can't live in base? Breaking the contract again and again? Lying to keep up appearances? That's toxic.

You want to see toxic? Read yourself:

You think we are going to get a world class contract? here in Canada? you're having a laugh. This will never change

That attitude and spreading that belief is toxic. This airline has had world class contracts in the past. We have been comparable to United and Delta in the past. We always were the highest paid Canadian airline. Now?

Canadian mindset? I don't know what that is, but we are bringing on a new way of doing business for AC Pilots. 3000+ are having their first real go at negots and with a REAL union behind us. It's a new page.

edited due spellcheck substitutions