VP Flight Ops appeals to pilots directly in bulletin

[rudder]

Well Jazz won’t be taking any work away. We still can’t staff the operation. Lots of 500hr F/O now but no one to upgrade.

Less hiring at AC will mean lower flow attrition from Jazz (as if it could go any lower).

AC may get bumped down as the principal Jazz attrition destination (Porter may become #1).

[rookiepilot]

full of more shit than a 16 hrs flight returning from Mumbai

Can’t unsee that

[Dockjock]

Reads like someone who realized he might have wrote a cheque that won’t cash. Told the C-suite his men would whip the pilots into submission. Take the travel passes. Stonewall. Don’t release them from DH. Stagger the RAPs by 5 minutes. Squash the vacation availability. Threatening lanyard memo, retracted. Cancel PressReader (now we’re really getting petty). Condescending counterfactual “how did we get here I thought we were friends,” memo. Nothing sticking.

One bullet left and it’s the big one; lockout. CEO and BoD have bigger fish to fry politically, and that would nuke any clout they’ve got left in a fraught economy for political leaders with their eyes on an election. On clout; plummeting skytrax rating, industry worst OTP, negative share price growth. Massively profitable. Political leaders are going to line up behind this?

Is the next move then finding a different voice to repair this relationship quickly enough to prevent a strike? Or do they double down in the hope of “winning” a permanently impaired ability to find pilots.

[Dias]

an anxious Canadian pilot, working for the competition who is hoping you are all successful in reaching your WCC that you have been working towards. IF you win big, the industry wins big.

Please don't. If you want change at your job you need to be willing to strike for it too.

[RippleRock]

Notwithstanding the engine and delivery issues, it was surprising to see a reduction in required positions in the bid.

Lol.. you're serious?

It's the most classic union busting technique: threaten to take work away

Doesn't matter the industry, it's the same old company play

Luckily, the pilot group & ALPA are not going to fall for it

Flight Operations does NOT run the Company. They are simply one part of it.

Murray is given a mandate to crew aircraft that are allocated to certain routes by our Fleet Planning department. They must crew them within two parameters, the CARS and the contract....but the mandate is they MUST "crew the aircraft"......don't forget that. He reports directly to the CEO and the Board if he fails.

They wanna play "silly bugger" with bids and training??? So be it. It doesn't change the requirement to crew the aircraft that are purchased or leased by the Company to move passengers mandated by another department.

We MUST stop thinking that the "life and death" of this airline, and any other airline for that matter, and EVERY DECISION revolves around flight crews. It's lunacy.

The aircraft that need to be flown WILL BE CREWED. Don't worry about it. That's strictly a Flight Ops problem, not yours, not mine and not Fleet Plannings. Period.

[braaap Braap]

an anxious Canadian pilot, working for the competition who is hoping you are all successful in reaching your WCC that you have been working towards. IF you win big, the industry wins big.

Please don't. If you want change at your job you need to be willing to strike for it too.

They can’t strike if theyre not part of a bargaining unit

[altiplano]

Watching all these stories, AC, Encore, I am as far from a union mindset as one could get — by why isn’t anyone willing to actually strike for a week?

Walk the line for a week, refuse to move one inch on a hardline negotiating position, refuse to even talk, then sit down for real.

You all seem to cave so easily. Bizzare to me.

Air Canada Pilots aren't in a legal strike position. Yet.

We'll be on the picket line in September though unless the company gets a large attitude adjustment and accepts that we are taking back what was ours. I don't think that they will though. They need a change of culture and personnel first.

That bulletin is full of BS and an inaccurate portrayal of events from a management group that is desperate.

They thought we should have stayed in the old contract for it's benefits? What? 2% and a B-pass? ALPA offered that opportunity, staying in the deal, to them but it required immediate real wage uplift, they didn't even answer us.

Then ALPA gave notice to bargain and the company sat silent for over 6 months when we tried to engage. Silent that is until they threatened a lockout in January. Strom's bulletin seems to miss that part of it.

That's the reason we proposed mediation, to avoid a lockout and actually get some work done on this negotiation. But the company still stalls and complains. "It's too much work to negotiate a contract in good faith" "We only want to change 3 things" "Why won't you capitulate to our demands like the last guys"

They're going to find out in September.

Why did ALPA propose mediation and not attempt a strike sooner? If the company isn't cooperative, won't mediation just delay things further?

The goal has always been to bargain. We don't want a rushed deal with our members on the street and our airline shutdown.

The company didn't engage in meaningful bargaining in 2023.

In early January the company said that they were going to declare an impasse and lock us out in April, they wanted to force ALPA into a rush agreement ahead of their highest profit Q3 and "protect their summer."

The mediation deal extended the timeline and forced negotiations. It got some of the work completed, as much as could be done without the real pressure being applied.

Now is the time to apply that pressure.

Take the work we've achieved until now, and build on it over the summer, and if they aren't moving forward with us, September strike.

[digits_]

Air Canada Pilots aren't in a legal strike position. Yet.

We'll be on the picket line in September though unless the company gets a large attitude adjustment and accepts that we are taking back what was ours. I don't think that they will though. They need a change of culture and personnel first.

That bulletin is full of BS and an inaccurate portrayal of events from a management group that is desperate.

They thought we should have stayed in the old contract for it's benefits? What? 2% and a B-pass? ALPA offered that opportunity, staying in the deal, to them but it required immediate real wage uplift, they didn't even answer us.

Then ALPA gave notice to bargain and the company sat silent for over 6 months when we tried to engage. Silent that is until they threatened a lockout in January. Strom's bulletin seems to miss that part of it.

That's the reason we proposed mediation, to avoid a lockout and actually get some work done on this negotiation. But the company still stalls and complains. "It's too much work to negotiate a contract in good faith" "We only want to change 3 things" "Why won't you capitulate to our demands like the last guys"

They're going to find out in September.

Why did ALPA propose mediation and not attempt a strike sooner? If the company isn't cooperative, won't mediation just delay things further?

The goal has always been to bargain. We don't want a rushed deal with our members on the street and our airline shutdown.

The company didn't engage in meaningful bargaining in 2023.

In early January the company said that they were going to declare an impasse and lock us out in April, they wanted to force ALPA into a rush agreement ahead of their highest profit Q3 and "protect their summer."

The mediation deal extended the timeline and forced negotiations. It got some of the work completed, as much as could be done without the real pressure being applied.

Now is the time to apply that pressure.

Take the work we've achieved until now, and build on it over the summer, and if they aren't moving forward with us, September strike.

I'm happy there was a strategy behind it. I don't fully understand it though. If the company was applying pressure, or was worried about their summer, would it not have been better to negotiate in April? Why would the company be more inclined to succumb to negotiating pressure in September than in April?

If the company is applying pressure, it means they want something, which is generally a way in to negotiations, no?

[PostmasterGeneral]

Why did ALPA propose mediation and not attempt a strike sooner? If the company isn't cooperative, won't mediation just delay things further?

The goal has always been to bargain. We don't want a rushed deal with our members on the street and our airline shutdown.

The company didn't engage in meaningful bargaining in 2023.

In early January the company said that they were going to declare an impasse and lock us out in April, they wanted to force ALPA into a rush agreement ahead of their highest profit Q3 and "protect their summer."

The mediation deal extended the timeline and forced negotiations. It got some of the work completed, as much as could be done without the real pressure being applied.

Now is the time to apply that pressure.

Take the work we've achieved until now, and build on it over the summer, and if they aren't moving forward with us, September strike.

I'm happy there was a strategy behind it. I don't fully understand it though. If the company was applying pressure, or was worried about their summer, would it not have been better to negotiate in April? Why would the company be more inclined to succumb to negotiating pressure in September than in April?

If the company is applying pressure, it means they want something, which is generally a way in to negotiations, no?

It’s been said a dozen times already, but a summer strike was never on the table.

[rudder]

The reality is that the parties have not been in traditional bargaining for nearly two decades. There were always extenuating circumstances (CCAA), hopes for third party intervention (Conservatives/Raitt), or just cyclic economic impact. Now (hopefully) none of that will come into play.

You also have a massive amount of both pilots and senior managers that have no familiarity or recollection of normal course bargaining.

The playbook used by management never changes. Never. Entirely predictable.

Thankfully, this time there are adults in the room (ALPA). So the process may seem protracted, tedious, and frustrating - but there is a supporting organization whose sole enterprise is representing pilots in collective bargaining.

The AC CBA is a litany of division. Senior vs junior. WB vs NB. DB vs MEPP. Mainline vs Rouge. A-scale vs B-scale.

The only thing standing between the AC pilots and their objectives is unwavering support.

[digits_]

It’s been said a dozen times already, but a summer strike was never on the table.

I did see some people hinting at that, but I haven't been able to find an explanation. Would love to find out why if you're able to share!

[altiplano]

Why did ALPA propose mediation and not attempt a strike sooner? If the company isn't cooperative, won't mediation just delay things further?

The goal has always been to bargain. We don't want a rushed deal with our members on the street and our airline shutdown.

The company didn't engage in meaningful bargaining in 2023.

In early January the company said that they were going to declare an impasse and lock us out in April, they wanted to force ALPA into a rush agreement ahead of their highest profit Q3 and "protect their summer."

The mediation deal extended the timeline and forced negotiations. It got some of the work completed, as much as could be done without the real pressure being applied.

Now is the time to apply that pressure.

Take the work we've achieved until now, and build on it over the summer, and if they aren't moving forward with us, September strike.

I'm happy there was a strategy behind it. I don't fully understand it though. If the company was applying pressure, or was worried about their summer, would it not have been better to negotiate in April? Why would the company be more inclined to succumb to negotiating pressure in September than in April?

If the company is applying pressure, it means they want something, which is generally a way in to negotiations, no?

We are trying to make major changes in our collective agreement. If we were locked out in April we couldn't have achieved as much, there would have been a rush to just get a deal with a few gains and get back to work.

Now we get to dial the pressure all summer. Who isn't working to rule? Who is still helping out? Our individual behavior this summer will have a major effect. They rely on our goodwill to keep this airline running.

The public messaging of labour disruption all summer will all also have an effect. Then we drop the hammer on Labour Day. More impact than April would have been, with a lot of items already secured, and a group that is more prepared to stay out until we achieve our goals.

[Xander]

Would you like to know more?

[altiplano]

It’s been said a dozen times already, but a summer strike was never on the table.

I did see some people hinting at that, but I haven't been able to find an explanation. Would love to find out why if you're able to share!

Because the company was going to lock us out in April. We would have had to stay out for 3 month to get to the summer...

[newlygrounded]

Notwithstanding the engine and delivery issues, it was surprising to see a reduction in required positions in the bid.

Lol.. you're serious?

It's the most classic union busting technique: threaten to take work away

Doesn't matter the industry, it's the same old company play

Luckily, the pilot group & ALPA are not going to fall for it

Take a 10% pay cut or we will cancel the cargo flying despite hiring a VP the next day and having planes undergoing conversion

[FNGYYZ]

Notwithstanding the engine and delivery issues, it was surprising to see a reduction in required positions in the bid.

Lol.. you're serious?

It's the most classic union busting technique: threaten to take work away

Doesn't matter the industry, it's the same old company play

Luckily, the pilot group & ALPA are not going to fall for it

Take a 10% pay cut or we will cancel the cargo flying despite hiring a VP the next day and having planes undergoing conversion

Where are the ACPA Reps that negotiated the cargo deal anyways?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Notwithstanding the engine and delivery issues, it was surprising to see a reduction in required positions in the bid.

Lol.. you're serious?

It's the most classic union busting technique: threaten to take work away

Doesn't matter the industry, it's the same old company play

Luckily, the pilot group & ALPA are not going to fall for it

Take a 10% pay cut or we will cancel the cargo flying despite hiring a VP the next day and having planes undergoing conversion

Don’t forget “cancelling” planned cargo conversations at a cost of $20M.

[Dockjock]

The thing I’m most offended by is not just the claim that their lack of promised fleet growth being the fault of COVID, which is true, but the implication that ALPA enforcing it nonetheless (trigger not met to continue the final year of the 10-year framework) was an unreasonable action. It couldn’t be more reasonable, or expected. To feign surprise is to expose a deep ignorance of this relationship.

To recap, circa 2012;
1. ACPA agreed to below-inflation level pay scale raises (2% per year) in exchange for fleet growth. This was a massive risk, a HUGE bet on trusting management (Ben Smith and Rovinescu) with their “project ultra” Transat-killing plan (LCC aka rouge). It literally kicked off the “special relationship” that pilots were supposed to have, as company leaders. If we sign for 10 years, the other employee groups will too. And they did. Ben Smith deserves the credit, and he was SO HAPPY that he gave us B1 passes for 10 years. A tiny token for the massive, massive value we unlocked. The ensuing labour peace raised our credit rating, made borrowing cheaper, made raising equity possible, and funded the expansion. AC turned around. Oh ya we threw in the DB pension too. And we got profit sharing and an expanded ESOP.
2. The fleet growth was the pitch, by the airline, that our personal increases in earnings would come not from raises, but INSTEAD IN THE FORM OF RAPID PROMOTIONS. Not a raise, because the raises were nominal (2%), basically zero. Rapid promotions. Do I dare mention that the promotions basically only offset the stagnation yet to occur as a result of fly past 60? Nah, that would be petty. And it was our own pilots’ fault, not that of the airline.
3. Promotions require fleet growth. That happened! We went from 200 to 250 airplanes! Never mind that we somehow also agreed to the growth being at a B-scale, and for the 767 to be characterized as a narrowbody. It was growth. We made profit, and the share price went up.
4. In 2018 Ben Smith leaves to be CEO of KLM/Air France. But we’re on a good trajectory.
5. COVID. Global pandemic in year 6. We mutually decide to PUNT on the year 7-8-9 trigger. Neither side wants to open full negots. Makes sense. 2021 Rovinescu retires. Michael Rousseau becomes CEO.
6. So the promised growth stops. Instead we shrink. Layoffs, which the CEO publicly forgets about (insulting). The 737 was also grounded. Not their fault but…it wasn’t growth was it? Massive inflation. Pilots side of the deal is falling apart bigtime. CEO makes $12M. We pitch in to help save money AGAIN, with 55 hr blocks. No quid pro quo, we just do it. Does it save layoffs? Who can say, the CEO didn’t even remember we already had 600 pilots laid off.
7. Pandemic over. Layoffs recalled. 737 flying again. Massive profitability. Hiring. Demand for pilots never been higher. Fleet is at 200 fins, exactly where it was in 2013, our profit sharing looks positively anemic against our peers, and the share price is negative for the entirety of the current CEO’s tenure.

So when ALPA decided to say no, we didn’t get our side of the bargain at all we want to negotiate, it was with that background. The airline got everything it wanted and more- yes there were problems, big ones! But the CEO got $12M for solving them and we got squat! The airline made record profit on our backs, and now has the cheapest legacy pilots on the planet. I should be a middle-seniority 787 captain. Guess what? I’m not, and our pilot peers elsewhere are making $100-$200 more PER HOUR than we are.

Surprised.

[Fanblade]

Notwithstanding the engine and delivery issues, it was surprising to see a reduction in required positions in the bid.

Lol.. you're serious?

It's the most classic union busting technique: threaten to take work away

Doesn't matter the industry, it's the same old company play

Luckily, the pilot group & ALPA are not going to fall for it

Rudder doesn’t work at AC. He is probably just unaware of how AC plays with these bids around negotiations.

Rudder all they have to do is leave enough hiring room for the short term in the bid. Then put the reduced positions back in say September.

We have seen the reverse happen as well. Just prior to the MOA two years ago AC put out a massive bid. When the MOA was voted down they pulled it all back. Bad pilots. One year out all the positions slowly returned.

[ClearedDirect]

Lol.. you're serious?

It's the most classic union busting technique: threaten to take work away

Doesn't matter the industry, it's the same old company play

Luckily, the pilot group & ALPA are not going to fall for it

Take a 10% pay cut or we will cancel the cargo flying despite hiring a VP the next day and having planes undergoing conversion

Where are the ACPA Reps that negotiated the cargo deal anyways?

If you're looking for chair of the Negotiating Committee from from the Cargo deal, you will find Rob commuting on confirmed first class passes between Winnipeg and wherever as a management pilot

Reward for selling out the pilot group after refusing to leave till the end. It took a recall to get him to go after forwarding union emails to the company. All around great stuff from former ACPA reps

You will find the vice chair on Air Canada social media at company events "Rising Higher". These two guys also negotiated the worst reserve in the industry

They were certainly industry leading negotiators. Leading the industry into the toilet

[pelmet]

The thing I’m most offended by is not just the claim that their lack of promised fleet growth being the fault of COVID, which is true, but the implication that ALPA enforcing it nonetheless (trigger not met to continue the final year of the 10-year framework) was an unreasonable action. It couldn’t be more reasonable, or expected. To feign surprise is to expose a deep ignorance of this relationship.

To recap, circa 2012;
1. ACPA agreed to below-inflation level pay scale raises (2% per year) in exchange for fleet growth. This was a massive risk, a HUGE bet on trusting management (Ben Smith and Rovinescu) with their “project ultra” Transat-killing plan (LCC aka rouge). It literally kicked off the “special relationship” that pilots were supposed to have, as company leaders. If we sign for 10 years, the other employee groups will too. And they did. Ben Smith deserves the credit, and he was SO HAPPY that he gave us B1 passes for 10 years. A tiny token for the massive, massive value we unlocked. The ensuing labour peace raised our credit rating, made borrowing cheaper, made raising equity possible, and funded the expansion. AC turned around. Oh ya we threw in the DB pension too. And we got profit sharing and an expanded ESOP.
2. The fleet growth was the pitch, by the airline, that our personal increases in earnings would come not from raises, but INSTEAD IN THE FORM OF RAPID PROMOTIONS. Not a raise, because the raises were nominal (2%), basically zero. Rapid promotions. Do I dare mention that the promotions basically only offset the stagnation yet to occur as a result of fly past 60? Nah, that would be petty. And it was our own pilots’ fault, not that of the airline.
3. Promotions require fleet growth. That happened! We went from 200 to 250 airplanes! Never mind that we somehow also agreed to the growth being at a B-scale, and for the 767 to be characterized as a narrowbody. It was growth. We made profit, and the share price went up.
4. In 2018 Ben Smith leaves to be CEO of KLM/Air France. But we’re on a good trajectory.
5. COVID. Global pandemic in year 6. We mutually decide to PUNT on the year 7-8-9 trigger. Neither side wants to open full negots. Makes sense. 2021 Rovinescu retires. Michael Rousseau becomes CEO.
6. So the promised growth stops. Instead we shrink. Layoffs, which the CEO publicly forgets about (insulting). The 737 was also grounded. Not their fault but…it wasn’t growth was it? Massive inflation. Pilots side of the deal is falling apart bigtime. CEO makes $12M. We pitch in to help save money AGAIN, with 55 hr blocks. No quid pro quo, we just do it. Does it save layoffs? Who can say, the CEO didn’t even remember we already had 600 pilots laid off.
7. Pandemic over. Layoffs recalled. 737 flying again. Massive profitability. Hiring. Demand for pilots never been higher. Fleet is at 200 fins, exactly where it was in 2013, our profit sharing looks positively anemic against our peers, and the share price is negative for the entirety of the current CEO’s tenure.

So when ALPA decided to say no, we didn’t get our side of the bargain at all we want to negotiate, it was with that background. The airline got everything it wanted and more- yes there were problems, big ones! But the CEO got $12M for solving them and we got squat! The airline made record profit on our backs, and now has the cheapest legacy pilots on the planet. I should be a middle-seniority 787 captain. Guess what? I’m not, and our pilot peers elsewhere are making $100-$200 more PER HOUR than we are.

Surprised.

Didn't you get rapid promotion and captains pay after like....two years when WJ pilots wait 12 years. Isn't that huge?

[Fanblade]

Didn't you get rapid promotion and captains pay after like....two years when WJ pilots wait 12 years. Isn't that huge?

That flawed logic is very short sighted and is in part why we are where we are today. Trading upgrades in lou of wages doesn’t work overall. Overall it just leads to substandard wages.

Yes some, and I stress some, pilots benefited. But what about the new hires hired to sit in the right seat? The ones enduring 4 years flat salary? What about the rest of the 5000 pilots making less?

The quick upgrade times at Air Canada are a reflection of the quality of the NB job at the bottom. If everyone upgraded as soon as they could it would be a decade to the left seat at Air Canada as well. The quick upgrades are more of a reflection that senior pilots view the position as inferior.

If pay and QOL were better it would be more senior.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

It's also just a hard freaking job to be an Air Canada Captain. I don't even want to do it. The amount of micromanaging they have to do just to keep show on the road is unbelievable. You'd have to pay me $750k+ to take on what they do every flight. That sounds like big number scary but it would still provide less take home pay than what airline Captains in other countries take home. Also, other countries Captains likely don't have to do a fraction of the management that they do at AC.

[NTPilot]

I'm starting to think diversity hiring is just a way to get employees that are more likely to put up with crap.

As a diversity hire, you are absolutely correct