A potential career with all the automation & artificial intelligence coming out

[CaptDukeNukem]

Everyone here is forgetting the fact that passengers will book a fare that is $20 cheaper than the one with 2 pilots

[CaptDukeNukem]

On a side note, aviation is not just about Airliners and one of the aircraft I fly for a living was built in 1943 (Rebuilt a few times since )

Cool! Which one?

[CaptDukeNukem]

If the auto throttle on the E2 is any indication on how technology is advancing to not need pilots, I think we’ll be safe for awhile.

In all honesty though, it’s one thing to have a plane capable of taking off, flying from point A to point B, and then landing all on its own, but I’d be very curious to know how long it would take for the background industry infrastructure to change. If ATC isn’t gonna talk to us, how are they going to manipulate the airplanes? Aviation is a pretty standardized industry worldwide, how long until most places are capable of having these new planes operate in its airspace/airports? I see that as a HUGE barrier for the new technology everyone talks about in our industry.

On top of that, I think anyone flying in a multi crew environment can quickly see how even a single pilot flight deck would be a sketchy operation. Humans make mistakes, and having that extra set of eyes to help manage the workload is absolutely essential for minimizing mistakes. Even with the automation currently in aircraft nowadays, they still act up and do funny things, needing to be babysat by the pilot (again, E2 is a perfect example of how an airplane can be so smart yet also so dumb at the same time with all this new tech installed).

I’m obviously bias af but I think anyone just starting out now would be fine tbh

How many jets have you flown with auto-throttle or auto thrust that you can compare the E2s FADEC systems?

Legit question.

Also, ATC can see pilot selected altitudes and airspeed with ADS-B, and Tesla cars can drive themselves pretty damn well from point a to point b.

I’m sure the technology can “talk to plane to controller”
Wait… they have that, CPDLC. This decade’s version still has you click accept.

*edited for dyslexia

[8895]

If the auto throttle on the E2 is any indication on how technology is advancing to not need pilots, I think we’ll be safe for awhile.

In all honesty though, it’s one thing to have a plane capable of taking off, flying from point A to point B, and then landing all on its own, but I’d be very curious to know how long it would take for the background industry infrastructure to change. If ATC isn’t gonna talk to us, how are they going to manipulate the airplanes? Aviation is a pretty standardized industry worldwide, how long until most places are capable of having these new planes operate in its airspace/airports? I see that as a HUGE barrier for the new technology everyone talks about in our industry.

On top of that, I think anyone flying in a multi crew environment can quickly see how even a single pilot flight deck would be a sketchy operation. Humans make mistakes, and having that extra set of eyes to help manage the workload is absolutely essential for minimizing mistakes. Even with the automation currently in aircraft nowadays, they still act up and do funny things, needing to be babysat by the pilot (again, E2 is a perfect example of how an airplane can be so smart yet also so dumb at the same time with all this new tech installed).

I’m obviously bias af but I think anyone just starting out now would be fine tbh

How many jets have you flown with auto-throttle or auto thrust that you can compare the E2s FADEC systems?

Legit question.

Also, ATC can see pilot selected altitudes and airspeed with ADS-B, and Tesla cars can drive themselves pretty damn well from point a to point b.

I’m sure the technology can “talk to plane to controller”
Wait… they have that, CPDLC. This decade’s version still has you click accept.

*edited for dyslexia

Another tail got a MAU fail. Would love to see a computer put that plane on the ground…

[CaptDukeNukem]

If the auto throttle on the E2 is any indication on how technology is advancing to not need pilots, I think we’ll be safe for awhile.

In all honesty though, it’s one thing to have a plane capable of taking off, flying from point A to point B, and then landing all on its own, but I’d be very curious to know how long it would take for the background industry infrastructure to change. If ATC isn’t gonna talk to us, how are they going to manipulate the airplanes? Aviation is a pretty standardized industry worldwide, how long until most places are capable of having these new planes operate in its airspace/airports? I see that as a HUGE barrier for the new technology everyone talks about in our industry.

On top of that, I think anyone flying in a multi crew environment can quickly see how even a single pilot flight deck would be a sketchy operation. Humans make mistakes, and having that extra set of eyes to help manage the workload is absolutely essential for minimizing mistakes. Even with the automation currently in aircraft nowadays, they still act up and do funny things, needing to be babysat by the pilot (again, E2 is a perfect example of how an airplane can be so smart yet also so dumb at the same time with all this new tech installed).

I’m obviously bias af but I think anyone just starting out now would be fine tbh

How many jets have you flown with auto-throttle or auto thrust that you can compare the E2s FADEC systems?

Legit question.

Also, ATC can see pilot selected altitudes and airspeed with ADS-B, and Tesla cars can drive themselves pretty damn well from point a to point b.

I’m sure the technology can “talk to plane to controller”
Wait… they have that, CPDLC. This decade’s version still has you click accept.

*edited for dyslexia

Another tail got a MAU fail. Would love to see a computer put that plane on the ground…

Wow. Recent?

But absolutely, computer components can fail and apparently do so. I don’t think we are anywhere close to single pilot or automated flight yet.

Of course, I’ve said things and then been surprised the next day.

[Red_Comet]

I've written long, analytical posts on the absurdity of "AI taking our jobs" posts before, so I won't waste my time again.

Suffice to say that people without knowledge of LLMs and transformers basically see GPT chatbots as magic. They are not, and you would not trust them to do anything meaningful if you understood how they worked. Insurance companies most definitely won't trust them. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that you'll need AGI before flight is automated, and I would have to agree. AGI means Arnold from Terminator. Once AGI shows up at your door, you've got bigger problems than your job.

My friend who is a Tesla engineer let me drive his model 3 a few months ago. It got stuck in the first cul de sac it encountered and almost rammed another car in a roundabout. Funnily enough, cars will also not drive themselves until AGI, so don't trust your life to a Tesla.

But of course, everyone is an expert on everything, so don't let me harsh your Cyberpunk dreams.

[Eric Janson]

I fly a highly computerised aircraft that is 25+ years old.

Quite normal to have to do a "Computer Reset" to restore system functionality.

We even have a list (Reset Table) that tells you what can and can't be reset in the air.

I had my map display fail after take-off last week. A reset of the FMGEC (Flight Management Guidance and Envelope Computer) during cruise solved the issue.



Single Pilot Airliners/Pilotless Airliners are a fantasy story imho.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I fly a highly computerised aircraft that is 25+ years old.

Quite normal to have to do a "Computer Reset" to restore system functionality.

We even have a list (Reset Table) that tells you what can and can't be reset in the air.

I had my map display fail after take-off last week. A reset of the FMGEC (Flight Management Guidance and Envelope Computer) during cruise solved the issue.



Single Pilot Airliners/Pilotless Airliners are a fantasy story imho.

I literally have to reset the FAs coffee makers to get coffee.

[‘Bob’]

But of course, everyone is an expert on everything, so don't let me harsh your Cyberpunk dreams.

The self proclaimed expert said.

[Red_Comet]

But of course, everyone is an expert on everything, so don't let me harsh your Cyberpunk dreams.

The self proclaimed expert said.

LMAO, the regression of grown ass men to juvenile children never ceases to amaze me. It's like getting a window into the mind of the average NPC. All those "gotchas" and "quips" that they would never say in real life, come out in the internet.

I have a feeling that the men who made this country would no longer recognize the creatures that inhabit it now. Most wouldn't even self-identify as men

[digits_]

But of course, everyone is an expert on everything, so don't let me harsh your Cyberpunk dreams.

The self proclaimed expert said.

He's right though. Those 'AI' systems are at least a decade away of being anywhere near the accuracy and reliability that it's useful for automatic flight. We made a big leap forward now with chatgpt and the likes, but it will take a while before the next significant step happens.

That doesn't mean that automation won't evolve, but it will be the 'classic' programming that improves those systems, and it will need ground station changes and improvements for full automatic flights. All that technology already exists, it's just a matter of connecting it all, paying for all the testing and being economically brave enough to actually start using it.

To compare both options: the AI system would be able to detect where a runway is based on a camera image and land there.
The classic automation system could follow an ILS or GPS signal all the way down to a pre defined runway and autoland based on a set of parameters (weight, temperature, wind, height, etc)

[‘Bob’]

But of course, everyone is an expert on everything, so don't let me harsh your Cyberpunk dreams.

The self proclaimed expert said.

LMAO, the regression of grown ass men to juvenile children never ceases to amaze me. It's like getting a window into the mind of the average NPC. All those "gotchas" and "quips" that they would never say in real life, come out in the internet.

I have a feeling that the men who made this country would no longer recognize the creatures that inhabit it now. Most wouldn't even self-identify as men

I can't tell if this comment is the product of blissful ignorance or deliberate irony.

[Red_Comet]

The self proclaimed expert said.

LMAO, the regression of grown ass men to juvenile children never ceases to amaze me. It's like getting a window into the mind of the average NPC. All those "gotchas" and "quips" that they would never say in real life, come out in the internet.

I have a feeling that the men who made this country would no longer recognize the creatures that inhabit it now. Most wouldn't even self-identify as men

I can't tell if this comment is the product of blissful ignorance or deliberate irony.

None can know but you, Bobby boy, the austere and poignant galaxy brain in the discussion, contributing his infinite wisdom and salient opinions on esoteric subjects in every post. Stochastic gradient descent doesn't just apply to synthetic neural nets, does it Bobby?

In all seriousness, my opinion of professional pilots has gone down the shitter since participating in this forum. I don't interact with too many airline guys, but its depressing seeing most are no different than the average rabble one has to deal with in this country. Truly depressing.

[Landingstrip]

LMAO, the regression of grown ass men to juvenile children never ceases to amaze me. It's like getting a window into the mind of the average NPC. All those "gotchas" and "quips" that they would never say in real life, come out in the internet.

I have a feeling that the men who made this country would no longer recognize the creatures that inhabit it now. Most wouldn't even self-identify as men

I can't tell if this comment is the product of blissful ignorance or deliberate irony.

None can know but you, Bobby boy, the austere and poignant galaxy brain in the discussion, contributing his infinite wisdom and salient opinions on esoteric subjects in every post. Stochastic gradient descent doesn't just apply to synthetic neural nets, does it Bobby?

In all seriousness, my opinion of professional pilots has gone down the shitter since participating in this forum. I don't interact with too many airline guys, but its depressing seeing most are no different than the average rabble one has to deal with in this country. Truly depressing.

While I agree with the opinion you shared on AI, and maybe Bob hurt your feelings by questioning you, you sound quite insufferable yourself. Get off your high horse. This is the internet, there are assholes and normal people all mixed in. And if you still come to the conclusion you can't stand pilots (which obviously not everyone on this website is) I'd recommend you find a different website to spend your time on.

[pitottubey]

LMAO, the regression of grown ass men to juvenile children never ceases to amaze me. It's like getting a window into the mind of the average NPC. All those "gotchas" and "quips" that they would never say in real life, come out in the internet.

I have a feeling that the men who made this country would no longer recognize the creatures that inhabit it now. Most wouldn't even self-identify as men

I can't tell if this comment is the product of blissful ignorance or deliberate irony.

None can know but you, Bobby boy, the austere and poignant galaxy brain in the discussion, contributing his infinite wisdom and salient opinions on esoteric subjects in every post. Stochastic gradient descent doesn't just apply to synthetic neural nets, does it Bobby?

In all seriousness, my opinion of professional pilots has gone down the shitter since participating in this forum. I don't interact with too many airline guys, but its depressing seeing most are no different than the average rabble one has to deal with in this country. Truly depressing.

First of all big pat on the back for using all those big words, truly commendable you must be a very smart person.
Secondly, not everyone on this forum are pilots.
Thirdly, "I don't interact with too many airline guys" ..... yet you in the next breath say you feel like you know us then? And have passed judgement? This truly doesn't make sense. I've spent thousands of hours in 1 on 1 conversations with pilots and disagree with you sir. But what do I know?

P.S. I actually went through your past comments and agree with your stances on most things. AI, contract negotiations, flight training. Just chill not everyone is out to get you.

[Red_Comet]

Sorry gents, every man has a limit. This isn't just about one idiot on the internet. I've noticed the number of morons I interact with increasing rapidly offline and online. The childish mentality of "if I don't understand this, no one else does" seems to be rampant.

I obviously won't make judgements on anyone I haven't met, but the reality is that my perception of the profession has been tainted by the level of discourse here. I often hear pilots referred to as glorified truck drivers, which I genuinely thought was absurd considering the amount of work and knowledge it takes to become one (I would know, as a pilot myself).

But I'm starting to see it may not be far off the mark. My day job is as a professional in a technical field, and I don't opine on subjects that I don't understand. However, it seems many professional pilots love doing just that. Funny, given pilots operate some of the most complex machines on the planet, you would think we would have a respect for engineering concepts and try to understand them before sounding off. But alas, truck driver quips seem to rule the day here.

[digits_]

Sorry gents, every man has a limit. This isn't just about one idiot on the internet. I've noticed the number of morons I interact with increasing rapidly offline and online. The childish mentality of "if I don't understand this, no one else does" seems to be rampant.

I obviously won't make judgements on anyone I haven't met, but the reality is that my perception of the profession has been tainted by the level of discourse here. I often hear pilots referred to as glorified truck drivers, which I genuinely thought was absurd considering the amount of work and knowledge it takes to become one (I would know, as a pilot myself).

But I'm starting to see it may not be far off the mark. My day job is as a professional in a technical field, and I don't opine on subjects that I don't understand. However, it seems many professional pilots love doing just that. Funny, given pilots operate some of the most complex machines on the planet, you would think we would have a respect for engineering concepts and try to understand them before sounding off. But alas, truck driver quips seem to rule the day here.

Do you have a sociology or psychology degree that would allow you to make that statement

In all seriousness though, this happens everywhere. Even in engineering or technical fields, unfortunately.

[Landingstrip]

Sorry gents, every man has a limit. This isn't just about one idiot on the internet. I've noticed the number of morons I interact with increasing rapidly offline and online. The childish mentality of "if I don't understand this, no one else does" seems to be rampant.

I obviously won't make judgements on anyone I haven't met, but the reality is that my perception of the profession has been tainted by the level of discourse here. I often hear pilots referred to as glorified truck drivers, which I genuinely thought was absurd considering the amount of work and knowledge it takes to become one (I would know, as a pilot myself).

But I'm starting to see it may not be far off the mark. My day job is as a professional in a technical field, and I don't opine on subjects that I don't understand. However, it seems many professional pilots love doing just that. Funny, given pilots operate some of the most complex machines on the planet, you would think we would have a respect for engineering concepts and try to understand them before sounding off. But alas, truck driver quips seem to rule the day here.

Hate to break it to you but odds are you'd never be in the small minority that has what it takes to be an airline pilot, of which you look down upon. You can't seem to handle opposing viewpoints without having a mental breakdown so CRM would be out of the question. Let alone the eroding sanity of spending days on end with you. And the fact you are a PPL means nothing to me, all the ones I've flown with could barely fly at all. And the irony that you bitch about people who don't know what they are talking about. You think you understand what we do, newsflash you don't. "I don't opine about subjects that I don't understand". I've met many people like you that THINK they know about aviation because it's their hobby, and they don't. But I have an RPAL so I probably know what it takes to be a sniper right? But you can pass judgement on all pilots saying we're about on the level of truck drivers. Your own rules don't apply to you do they? You can dish it, can you take it though?

You harp on people who sling names and their childish behaviour, but don't hesitate to calling pilots truck drivers? Again the rules don't apply to you either do you? Could you follow SOPs or you'd make your own?

Great you've "hit your limit". Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[pitottubey]

Sorry gents, every man has a limit. This isn't just about one idiot on the internet. I've noticed the number of morons I interact with increasing rapidly offline and online. The childish mentality of "if I don't understand this, no one else does" seems to be rampant.

Dare I suggest that if you find everyone around you disagrees with you, maybe you are the asshole?

[Red_Comet]

Sorry gents, every man has a limit. This isn't just about one idiot on the internet. I've noticed the number of morons I interact with increasing rapidly offline and online. The childish mentality of "if I don't understand this, no one else does" seems to be rampant.

I obviously won't make judgements on anyone I haven't met, but the reality is that my perception of the profession has been tainted by the level of discourse here. I often hear pilots referred to as glorified truck drivers, which I genuinely thought was absurd considering the amount of work and knowledge it takes to become one (I would know, as a pilot myself).

But I'm starting to see it may not be far off the mark. My day job is as a professional in a technical field, and I don't opine on subjects that I don't understand. However, it seems many professional pilots love doing just that. Funny, given pilots operate some of the most complex machines on the planet, you would think we would have a respect for engineering concepts and try to understand them before sounding off. But alas, truck driver quips seem to rule the day here.

Hate to break it to you but odds are you'd never be in the small minority that has what it takes to be an airline pilot, of which you look down upon. You can't seem to handle opposing viewpoints without having a mental breakdown so CRM would be out of the question. Let alone the eroding sanity of spending days on end with you. And the fact you are a PPL means nothing to me, all the ones I've flown with could barely fly at all. And the irony that you bitch about people who don't know what they are talking about. You think you understand what we do, newsflash you don't. "I don't opine about subjects that I don't understand". I've met many people like you that THINK they know about aviation because it's their hobby, and they don't. But I have an RPAL so I probably know what it takes to be a sniper right? But you can pass judgement on all pilots saying we're about on the level of truck drivers. Your own rules don't apply to you do they? You can dish it, can you take it though?

You harp on people who sling names and their childish behaviour, but don't hesitate to calling pilots truck drivers? Again the rules don't apply to you either do you? Could you follow SOPs or you'd make your own?

Great you've "hit your limit". Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Looks like I hit a nerve. Flying is flying, airline pilots die everyday flying Cessnas. If you read accident reports regularly, you'd see it's that hotdog mentality that gets you and others killed. Truck drivers with egos

Your post encapsulates exactly why I'm done with this truck stop. Have fun bickering with each other like old women like its 1999.

[digits_]

the small minority that has what it takes to be an airline pilot

What makes you think only a small minority has what it takes to be an airline pilot?

[JHR]

Another AvCanada topic swirls down the shitter

[Landingstrip]

the small minority that has what it takes to be an airline pilot

What makes you think only a small minority has what it takes to be an airline pilot?

Because I spent years training hopeful future airline pilots... I was a flight instructor. I reckon you weren't.

[digits_]

the small minority that has what it takes to be an airline pilot

What makes you think only a small minority has what it takes to be an airline pilot?

Because I spent years training hopeful future airline pilots... I was a flight instructor. I reckon you weren't.

You'd reckon wrong.

If only a small minority of your students has what it takes to be an airline pilot, you must have been quite a shitty instructor

[Conflicting Traffic]

the small minority that has what it takes to be an airline pilot

What makes you think only a small minority has what it takes to be an airline pilot?

Because I spent years training hopeful future airline pilots... I was a flight instructor. I reckon you weren't.

I was. And I've returned to it after spending some time in the airlines. The claim that only a "small minority that has what it takes to be an airline pilot" is complete horseshit. In 30 years, I've worked with exactly 3 students who had no business being anywhere near an airplane. For everyone else, the difference between success and failure was tied entirely to the willingness (or lack thereof) to do the work. No special or rare qualities required. Sure, natural talent plays a role -- some people have to work harder than others. But ultimately, almost everyone can do it -- where by "almost", I mean north of 99% of anyone who can pass a medical.

Unless they're handicapped by shoddy instruction. I've spend a distressing amount of time helping people get past that...

If only a small minority of your students has what it takes to be an airline pilot, you must have been quite a shitty instructor

To contain the thread drift a little bit, The original topic was automation. Computers will absolutely take our jobs -- it's a question if when, not if. The "when" is probably later than we think, but sooner than we'd like. I'm old enough that it won't affect me. But I wouldn't want to be a 20 year old in flight school right now.