"Cleared to land" = Pointless use of words?

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dontcallmeshirley
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Re: "Cleared to land" = Pointless use of words?

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

digits_ wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:30 am 1977: Tenerife crash. Result: We're only allowed to use 'CLEAR' for take off and landing situations to prevent confusion and unsafe situations.

2024: 3 aircraft on final, 2 crossing the active runway? You're cleared to land sir!
Ground radar and taxiways parallel to the runway are a big help.
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pelmet
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Re: "Cleared to land" = Pointless use of words?

Post by pelmet »

I didn't read the whole thread yet but the mention of busy airports in the US with aircraft close in trail seems to mean that if the procedure of actually waiting until the runway is clear before issuing a landing clearance is issued.........aircraft will be on very short final when they receive the landing clearance. Due to frequency congestion, that means a lot of go-arounds in busy airspace.

Therefore, it has been decided that the clearance will be given ahead of time and then the pilot and controller have shared responsibility to make sure that the runway actually will be clear. Of course, if the visibility is poor, that may not be easy for the pilot to determine but perhaps there is increased spacing in poor weather.
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cjp
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Re: "Cleared to land" = Pointless use of words?

Post by cjp »

16SidedOffice wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:10 pm
cjp wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 7:47 pm Where have you experienced multiple landing clearances being issued in CAT 1 conditions?

PIC has ultimate responsibility when accepting a clearance. If ATC fails to monitor situation due to distraction when multiple clearances have been issued, PIC must ensure separation is maintained prior to landing. There are same runway separation limitations listed in the FARs.
Oh absolutely the PIC still has ultimate responsibility, but nothing changes using Multiple Landing Clearances or not. ATC still is there to ensure that the required runway separation exists.
As for where? The 4 Canadian majors do them.
When have you experienced those airports issuing multiple landing clearances on the same runway in CAT 1 min weather?

It matters cause they switch from assumed to standard separation once they, and the flight crew can't use visual cues. If you are breaking out at mins, you cannot adequately verify runway is clear, tower likely can't at 1/2 mile vis either.
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16SidedOffice
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Re: "Cleared to land" = Pointless use of words?

Post by 16SidedOffice »

cjp wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:18 am When have you experienced those airports issuing multiple landing clearances on the same runway in CAT 1 min weather?
Whenever it is IMC. There is no weather requirement with Multiple Landing Clearances as long as the runway isn't contaminated with snow, slush or ice etc. They are only permitted on specific runways at each airport and only in Landing configuration only, ie not mixed arrival and departures as well as few other requirements.
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