Okay, it's 900 OVC and 1 mile......

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:13 pm

Arrogance or preceived arrogance is one thing, however dishonesty on the part of any TCCA employee while performing their duties as regulators is another issue all together.

Which is the more unacceptable behaviour, arrogance displayed by a pilot or dishonesty and abuse of power by a Government official?

I have never met Hedley so I can not form a fair opinion, I have however met dishonest power abusing TCCA officials, several in fact.

And I do have an opinion regarding these individuals.

They should be sitting in a jail cell, not collecting a pay cheque from us the public while sitting in plush public owned offices.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:05 pm

The problem is that if you can't even shoot the approach in this case at 900-1 then you can't get under the ceilling to pirep that the vis is better than 1. So you have to leave the airport envirnoment to "find a hole" as Doc put it and then come in and request the special. the is messed up.

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:33 pm

co-joe wrote:The problem is that if you can't even shoot the approach in this case at 900-1 then you can't get under the ceilling to pirep that the vis is better than 1. So you have to leave the airport envirnoment to "find a hole" as Doc put it and then come in and request the special. the is messed up.

99 times out of 100 if vis is a mile...RVR's SHOULD be 6000 or 6000+. Of course..no RVR or RVR u/s...

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:40 pm

Lilfssister
I think you have answered this before, BUT have you guys had any further direction (from TC)

. as to what to do if someone does an approach when you are reporting lower vis then whats on the approach plate?
Is there any kind reporting system?

Vortex_driver · Post by **Vortex_driver** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:41 pm

According to what I read in the CAP Gen, you CAN shoot the approach but only to the FAF. So some times you can get away with it if you can break before the FAF and then from there request your SVFR. But if the FAF for the approach is over 900ft AGL (Which might be the case cause we are assuming a advisory vis of over 2SM ) then your F***ed! you have to do it the Bush way as Doc said!

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:43 pm

2milefinal wrote:Lilfssister
I think you have answerd this before, BUT have you guys had any further direction (from TC) . as to what to do if someone does an approach when you are reporting lower vis then whats on the approach plate?
Is there any kind reporting system?

Nope, not yet. Our direction comes from NC. We have a kind of blanket "report any violations" thing re TC. But there's so many factors here,and NC has not elaborated yet, so we still have the old MANOPS direction re 1200 til further notice, as far as I can tell.

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:45 pm

wow that was quick

thanks

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:00 pm

WILL YOU GUYS SHUT UP!!!!!!!!

Don't you know that....hush...shhhh....TC reads this?....shhhh!

They will just find another way of f*&*&ing the whole SVFR thing, so SHUT UP!!!!!

I am posting here because I just heard that the approach ban just caused me and lots of other people massive inconvenience. (and money).... oh, did I mention safety too?
But, what else is TC for? Hmmm?

And no, it was not some idiot "scratching his ass" who thought this up.
Anyone knows that TC can't find their own ass.

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:08 pm

I dont think TC has to come to this crazy place to find out what were up to. At least I hope the hell not.

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:24 pm

2milefinal wrote:I dont think TC has to come to this crazy place to find out what were up to. At least I hope the hell not.

No...we're telling them

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:39 pm

I just can't wait for the day, I have to take a plane load of lawyers, or the judge to YWG, because YRL, YXL etc are less than 75% the required vis. Should go over like a "fart in church"! Maybe they'll enjoy ".. running"? I guess TC thinks it's a safer way to go. To the tune of "Six Days on the Road"
I can dodge all the trees alright. I don't see a moose in sight. Six feet off the deck, and I'm going to make it in tonight!

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:50 pm

Doc wrote:I just can't wait for the day, I have to take a plane load of lawyers, or the judge to YWG, because YRL, YXL etc are less than 75% the required vis. Should go over like a "fart in church"! Maybe they'll enjoy ".. running"? I guess TC thinks it's a safer way to go. To the tune of "Six Days on the Road"
I can dodge all the trees alright. I don't see a moose in sight. Six feet off the deck, and I'm going to make it in tonight!

I think we need to modify lyrics of that old favourite...It's forty below, and I don't give a....

"It's 400 and a half and I don't give a f%^&, I'm asking for SVFR..."

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:01 pm

Good...but ya can't ask for a SVFR with a half...you know that!

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:03 pm

OOOPS...last dozen or so were helis...they can!

So:

It's 400 and a mile...

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:04 pm

Never mind YWG Doc. How about YTL OR Pik for night. Now we are talking good times.
It does not happen that often but I have seen days when the southern (so-to-speek) airports are all at or below mins.
Cant wait.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:21 pm

We'll just cx the trip if there is a chance of an overnight at YPM! LOL! But I do carry a good chunk of petrol. Either way, I'll be flying with a calculator on the dashboard! Let's see, 1.5 miles X .75.......sorry guys, we're hitting the Keg!!! I mean, screw it! It ain't my money! I figure, when this starts costing operators money, or when some twat actually rolls one up in a ball fighting to remain VFR, maybe then, just maybe, TC will give their heads a shake? Probably not. They will just come up with more sparkling examples of STUPID!!!

Wasn't Me · Post by **Wasn't Me** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:23 pm

Let's not forget the old saying. If you cann't go IFR go VFR

sprucemonkey · Post by **sprucemonkey** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:52 pm

2R wrote:
They will still be flying gasoline VFR up north in 200 /and a half

.....and that's GOOD WX!! GOTTA love TC......

anyways · Post by **anyways** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:37 pm

Sorry if I'm rehashing stuff that's already been said - I didn't quite make it through the whole thread. Here's what what we got out of a few NavCan guys when we brough em coffee at the centre the other day (it's a cheap way to avoid holding if you're flying into YXL, hehe)

By the sounds of it, this new 'approach ban' is only a quasi approach ban at most. It's full of holes. For one thing, they mentioned that it is not their job to enforce the ban - they are relying on the pilots for that. We didn't believe it, so we clarrified, and yes - if the vis is 1/8sm and you request the approach, they will give it to you. (You might get a call from Transport though, as they will scribble it down in their little black book... funny, but they do have one of those sitting on the shift manager's desk).

That stuff about the 'qualified observer' also enters into the equation - and if that fails, you're allowed to continue the approach if you advise them that your observed vis is at or greater than the minimum required to do the approach.

Finally, I should mention that these are all 'what if' examples - things you COULD do to circumvent the rules. I'm not recommending that anyone should do this, nor am I suggesting that I myself would do this. Food for thought anyways!!

bigfssguy · Post by **bigfssguy** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:09 pm

lilfssister wrote:99 times out of 100 if vis is a mile...RVR's SHOULD be 6000 or 6000+. Of course..no RVR or RVR u/s...

Haa Haa, LFS, you have never worked in Churchill. I have had 1/8 nm at the tower barely able to see the terminal across the parking lot and my RVR is reading 6000+ and this happens fairly frequently here.

My personal favourite is in the winter when we have a south wind and it pushes the ice north then we have a front pass through then we go from skc and a million the wind changes and we have 330@030g040 and down to 1/8 nm in fog. I love it when i get the mandatory call from the aftercaster telling me that it this weather can't happen..........

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:51 pm

bigfssguy wrote:
lilfssister wrote:99 times out of 100 if vis is a mile...RVR's SHOULD be 6000 or 6000+. Of course..no RVR or RVR u/s...
Haa Haa, LFS, you have never worked in Churchill. I have had 1/8 nm at the tower barely able to see the terminal across the parking lot and my RVR is reading 6000+ and this happens fairly frequently here.

My personal favourite is in the winter when we have a south wind and it pushes the ice north then we have a front pass through then we go from skc and a million the wind changes and we have 330@030g040 and down to 1/8 nm in fog. I love it when i get the mandatory call from the aftercaster telling me that it this weather can't happen..........

No I've not worked there, and yes, I also get the calls from the aftercasters saying are you SURE that is really happening? DUH!

ODA · Post by **ODA** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:00 pm

Here's a question if you file for a trip where the weather at the destination and at the alternate is fine, then en-route the forecaster missed something and there is a snow storm at the destination airport and the approach ban is in effect. You go to your alternate and now there is a snow storm there as well and the weather is such there is an approach ban in effect can you do the approach? Honestly how many times has the weather been forecast good and some fog moves in or it starts snowing. Lets say the weather at destination is 3/4 of a mile in snow and you need 1 so you can't do the appoach. You go to your alternate and now that it is snowing there is a bunch of ammendments to the taf and when you get there the vis is 1/4 in snow and the required vis is 1. Should you have tried the approach at the destination where the vis was 3/4 or go to your alternate that was forecasted to be good weather, but is now 1/4. Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

2R · Post by 2R » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:37 pm

oh me oh my ,more rules to break

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:11 pm

Methinks I'll just shoot the approach....see ya in court! If I get to minimums and see a runway...I'm landing! Any questions??

rd1331 · Post by **rd1331** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:05 am

If you declare an emergency the approach ban is no longer in affect and u can do what you want. Thats the same with the old approach ban, if you declared an emergency the approach ban was no longer in affect.

So if you get to your alt and its below minimums. Declare an emergency, land, send a little report to your CP and let him deal with the rest. Not your problem.