New Canadian Rant

[Cat Driver]

Tell me niss, what do you think of the Indian reserve system?

[niss]

Cat,

I think that reserves are a double edged sword. On the one hand they have an area where they could have been free from the "modern world" on the other hand it pigeon holes them and allows things to degrade. So instead of having a territory where an ancient culture can flourish and thrive you have a ghetto. I think that the governments of past have done a lot to @#$! up the lives of the people who were here first. I think that the conditions they live under only perpetuate their misery. I think that their lives need to be improved but that they cant be cut off instantly from the support network.

Remember the last government school to close did so in the mid 90's. The natives have been forced out of their land, and had restrictions imposed. Aswell, since confederation untill recently there has been a push by the Canadian government to assimilate the natives into Canada. You were either an Indian or a Canadian, you couldnt be both. Basically the Canadian government did what was convinient for them to solve the "native problem".

I was born in 1958, yet I am responsible for some first nations people being screwed out of their land in the 1700's.

http://www.canadiana.org/citm/themes/ab ... l#revision

Indian Act Revisions, 1951
In 1951, the Indian Act was changed so that many of the most oppressive laws banning key customs - including potlatches, pow-wows or other cultural ceremonies - were no longer effective. Aboriginals were also now allowed to possess and drink alcohol for the first time, but only on their own reserves.

Just as significant were changes made to the act allowing Aboriginals to sue the government over land claims. The provinces gained an increased role in determining Indian status. However, ultimate control over the Aboriginal peoples still resided (and still resides) with the federal government.

The Right to Vote, 1960
In 1958, Prime Minister John Diefenbaker named James Gladstone, a member of Alberta's Blood tribe, as the first Native Senator. Then, in 1960, he gave non-enfranchised Aboriginals the right to vote in federal elections. Despite these moves, though, the federal government was still opposed to the idea of Aboriginal self-government.

In March 1959, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police was sent into Six Nations Reserve near Brantford, Ontario, which, until 1924, had been completely self-governed. The police were there to evict Iroquois chiefs and clan mothers after traditionalists on the reserve seized control and, for all intents and purposes, declared the reserve separate from Canada.


White and Red Papers, 1969 - 1970
The year following Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau's rise to power in 1968, his government issued a White Paper on Aboriginal policy that argued that Canada shouldn't negotiate any further treaties with the Native peoples. Trudeau believed treaties were something only signed between sovereign nations. His government also did not agree with Aboriginal land right claims, either, because they were too broad and unspecific. Aboriginals feared this stance would undermine their special rights and status within Canadian society.

Aboriginals responded with their own document, named Citizens Plus, in 1970. This became more commonly known as the Red Paper. The Red Paper countered all of the proposals of the White Paper. An Aboriginal delegation, backed by other Canadian citizens, met with the government and successfully convinced it to radically change its policies and positions.

The White Paper, 1969

Citizens Plus, also known as The Red Paper, 1970

The Drybones Case, 1970
In 1969, an Aboriginal man named Joesph Drybones was found drunk in a Yellowknife hotel lobby and was arrested. While the Indian Act now allowed Aboriginals to drink, they could only do so on reserves. At the time, no reserves existed in the Northwest Territories.

Drybones fought his case all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, who found that the police had discriminated against him because of his race when they charged him with drunkenness. This ruling effectively caused the no-drinking clause in the Indian Act to fall into disuse.


The Calder Case, 1973
Frank Arthur Calder, a member of the federal Cabinet, sued the British Columbian government over land claims issues outstanding in the province with the Nisga'a tribe. The issue went to the Supreme Court of Canada, which ruled that aboriginal rights to the land did exist, particularly under the Royal Proclamation of 1763 and subsequent government implementation of that proclamation.

This ruling forced Pierre Trudeau's government to reconsider its federal Aboriginal policy once again, which opened the door to discussion on the intent and meaning of all Indian treaties.

The Berger Commission, 1974 - 1977

During the 1960s, new natural gas reserves were found in the Beaufort Sea in the Arctic, and oil companies began to express interest in building a pipeline straight through the fragile ecosystem of the northern Yukon and Mackenzie River Valley. In the mid-1970s, the Berger Commission, led by Thomas Berger, examined the effects of this proposed pipeline. Aboriginals in the region were particularly opposed to the pipeline, for several reasons:

Environmental concerns

Skepticism about the motives and interests of big business
Perceptions that it infringed upon their land rights and special status. Ultimately, the pipeline was never built.


The James Bay and Northern Québec Agreement, 1975

This was, notably, the first major land cession deal signed since the early twentieth century. It gave Inuit and Cree people in northern Québec significant amounts of money - $225 million - and hunting and fishing rights to land that was to be surrendered to the provincial government. The Québec provincial government wanted large portions of land in the northern half of the province for the purposes of building hydroelectric dams.

[Incu]

Niss. Thank you for advising me the official language of Quebec is French. That clears up every thing

As for the French culture being strong and vibrant in Quebec, it had better be with the billions and billions of dollars that the Canadian tax payer has pumped into it to prop it up (just a few dollars as so eloquently put it). Lets see how it survives without all the subsidization. If it does good for them and even better for the Canadian tax payer

I don’t recall mentioning anywhere one way or the other about subsidizing native culture. You are the one that suggested killing them off to save a dollar. That sir makes you an idiot.

I too am a Canadian who is proud of the different nationalities that have come together to build this country. I do not however support the culture of one them being singled out and propped up by Canadian tax dollars.

Childish comment re my Mother. Should have expected it after reading some of your previous 1881 posts

[cyyz]

I am a minority in Vancouver, Toronto and in every casino in this country.

So? The problem with being a minority is what, exactly? Besides that, I wonder what the First nations that you are mentioning below think about your presence here - now that they are a minority in their own land...

I was born in 1958, yet I am responsible for some first nations people
being screwed out of their land in the 1700's.

Sure, why not - you've benefitted hugely from said screwing.

Yeah, "first nations.." buddy they came over here and started killing the aboriginals....

Then the vikings came to trade, and they started killing them.

The spaniards.....

That's all they do is kill and steal, just happened that pox wiped out a good chunk of those genocidal maniacs....

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/stross/an ... ersons.htm

The extreme age of Peñon woman suggests two scenarios. Either there was a much earlier migration of Caucasian-like people with long, narrow skulls across the Bering Strait and that these people were later replaced by a subsequent migration of Mongoloid people.

[niss]

As for the French culture being strong and vibrant in Quebec, it had better be with the billions and billions of dollars that the Canadian tax payer has pumped into it to prop it up (just a few dollars as so eloquently put it). Lets see how it survives without all the subsidization. If it does good for them and even better for the Canadian tax payer

Did I miss something? Are Quebecers not Canadian Tax Payers?


2006

Population of Canada: 32,623.5 persons (thousands)
Population of Quebec: 7,651.5 persons (thousands)

Quebec makes up 23.45% of the population of Canada.

The GDP for Quebec in 2005 was $274.863 billion ranking 2nd overall in Canada (preceded by Ontario and followed by Alberta). The GDP of Quebec is comparable to the whole country of Switzerland.

The province of Quebec is hardly being carried by the rest of Canada. They have just as much a right to be here as anyone else, and the French Canadians have as much right to be represented just as much as any Anglophone.

You support spending to date 15 billion Canadian tax payer dollars to prop up a dying culture, I don’t but as long as there are enough MP’s in the province of Quebec to make it worth while for the party in power to pander to, it will continue.

Quebec has 74/307 MPs. I guess this is a moot point to you however, as you seem to be upset with the fact that Quebec (while having the 2nd largest population of all provinces and territories) is allowed to have the 2nd highest amount of MPs to parliment.

Quebecers pay their taxes, hell I pay my taxes and we all think Quebec has a right to representation. What the @#$! is so special about you? Its people like you who alienate others who are part of this country and make them want to leave.

I too am a Canadian who is proud of the different nationalities that have come together to build this country. I do not however support the culture of one them being singled out and propped up by Canadian tax dollars.

French is mostly spoken in Quebec, but there are substantial francophone populations elsewhere, mainly in the northern parts of New Brunswick, eastern, northern and southwestern Ontario, and southern Manitoba.

Thats a lot of people that the Canadian tax payers are propping up. While were at it we might as well tell Nunavut to @#$! off! I mean why are we paying for the Inuit to have their own territory? They are allowed a place where their native language is one of 3 offical languages! Why are we pissing away millions of dollars to defend a chunk of Canada that is pretty much soley inhabitated by a minority? Why do these people get preferencial treatment?

Ill tell you why. Because like it or not.......ready?......THEY ARE CANADIAN.



Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada#Demographics
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo02a.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec
http://webinfo.parl.gc.ca/MembersOfParl ... Language=E

[Incu]

Niss, Niss

Quote: The province of Quebec is hardly being carried by the rest of Canada..

Equalization payments 2006-2007 from Canadian Tax Payers:

Newfoundland 687 million
Prince Edward Island 291 million
Nova Scotia 1.3 billion
New Brunswick 1.4 billion
Quebec 5.53 billion
Manitoba 1.4 billion
Saskatchewan 13 million
British Columbia 459 million
Ontario 0
Alberta 0

Quote: Its people like you who alienate others who are part of this country and make them want to leave

If you make no effort to contribute to the well being of this country through hard work and you fail to work to improve the quality of life for yourself and those whom you are responsible for then buy all means leave. Don’t come crying to the hard working Canadian tax payer with you hand out looking for financial support because you are to lazy to get out and work and go where ever in this country there is opportunity. And please don’t come crying to the hard working Canadian taxpayer with you hand out looking for financial support to prop up cultural beliefs that a majority of Canadians don’t support.

Yes Niss we are all Canadian. Some of us carry the load. Some of us want to be carried

Which Canadian do you support?

[niss]

You are not making the same argument. You were saying that French Canadians are a strain on society! I pointed out that they are infact a contributing member of Canada.

You are painting everyone with the same brush. You never said the lazy ones who suck on the social teat. you said french Canada, Quebec, etc.

And there are plenty of anglophones who mooch off social assistance as well, I pointed out that the quebecers provide enough to canada to have their culture recognized and protected.

[Brewguy]

...North Shore 657 post and if you reread a small portion of them the logic doesn’t change...

...Childish comment re my Mother. Should have expected it after reading some of your previous 1881 posts...

Incu:
--> member of this forum for 15 days.
--> total of 8 posts, all in this thread.
(yes, the rest of us can use the profile & search features too)

So, you start a thread here with some half-ass attempt at humour, and have spent the rest of your time defending that first post? Hmm, interesting.
... and based on that you feel justified in questioning the logic of long time, active, contributing members of this forum?

Good for you pal - you'll fit in right along with some of our more notable trolls.

[Incu]

Thanks Neil. I guess not all of us can come right out of the chute and be big time experienced articulate posters like yourself. But hey we all have to start somewhere.

Troll. Yes I have trolled this site for quite some time and have found the majority of the posters to be very informed and entertaining. Others are very up tight somewhat anal-retentive.

I guess you know where you fit in.

Again thank you for welcoming me to the site. I will do my best not to disappoint the majority

Cheers yourself

[cyyz]

Good for you pal - you'll fit in right along with some of our more notable trolls.

We are no longer accepting members



PS. I do like how you're all slagging the guy who's been here since 58, and all the other guys.... Wonder who will defend you guys in 20 years when the "locals" will be forced onto reserves and we'll be praising allah, ming ching or vishnu and you'll be shot if you don't.....

[cloudcounter]

The bucket of guilty cash handed to the natives has created band corruption and pedephile problems in their 'spirtual' leaders I have heard.
The carpet is never big enough.
cc

[trey kule]

Paradise wrote

CloudCounter reference your post 197 above.... @#$! off. You've posted 197 times in the 24 days since joining avcanada and not one of them worth the time spent reading them. @#$! off fruit cake.

And your well thought out, and challanging post was certainly worth reading. For whatever reason, his post got a number of replies and it looks like some posters went to alot of trouble to prepare their answers.
I, for one, am actually enjoying this thread so maybe you should cut him some slack.

Niss wrote:


By the same logic we should kill all the natives, as it would be cheaper than supporting them.




Where do I sign up to help?

Oh, wait a miniute, I just read your next post.
You were just kidding, right?
And......of course,,,,so was I....ah.....kidding about the
signing up part.

[/quote]