Again, the above numbers were not in dispute. It was generally accepted that AC pilots are undercompensated when compared to our peers in the industry.
The arbitration focused generally on Air Canada ability, or inability, to pay.
How happy are the AC drivers with ACPA?
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Why would anyone dispute the numbers when they were irrelevant? Please cut the union rhetoric, their can be no sacred cows in our future...Martin Tamme wrote:Again, the above numbers were not in dispute. It was generally accepted that AC pilots are undercompensated when compared to our peers in the industry.
The arbitration focused generally on Air Canada ability, or inability, to pay.
To answer the original question I think our once great company is being driven into failure again due to 2 main problems. A management that has no pride in AirCanada and cares nothing about it's fate and secondly ACPA's inability to lead the pilots.
ACPA has failed big time since CCAA in the fact that it allows certain issues to overule others. We have new hires owed thousands by the company in back pay but ACPA management refuses to step up and defend this 400+ strong group of future voters, while issuing memos to refuse to fly if your J class rest seat doesn't fully recline! Whats more important? We are on our third or fourth merger committee I mean come on!
There's far to much whining and wait till 2009 BS going on and not enough, lets fix the real issues and move on.
We are going to continue to get back doored by the company while this group of "Day late, Buck short" committee members continue to dwell on the past and not take us forward.
ACPA has failed big time since CCAA in the fact that it allows certain issues to overule others. We have new hires owed thousands by the company in back pay but ACPA management refuses to step up and defend this 400+ strong group of future voters, while issuing memos to refuse to fly if your J class rest seat doesn't fully recline! Whats more important? We are on our third or fourth merger committee I mean come on!
There's far to much whining and wait till 2009 BS going on and not enough, lets fix the real issues and move on.
We are going to continue to get back doored by the company while this group of "Day late, Buck short" committee members continue to dwell on the past and not take us forward.
Well at least somebody gets it around here!!!!sober up! wrote:To answer the original question I think our once great company is being driven into failure again due to 2 main problems. A management that has no pride in AirCanada and cares nothing about it's fate and secondly ACPA's inability to lead the pilots.
ACPA has failed big time since CCAA in the fact that it allows certain issues to overule others. We have new hires owed thousands by the company in back pay but ACPA management refuses to step up and defend this 400+ strong group of future voters, while issuing memos to refuse to fly if your J class rest seat doesn't fully recline! Whats more important? We are on our third or fourth merger committee I mean come on!
There's far to much whining and wait till 2009 BS going on and not enough, lets fix the real issues and move on.
We are going to continue to get back doored by the company while this group of "Day late, Buck short" committee members continue to dwell on the past and not take us forward.
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arewethereyet
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It also appears WestJet doesn't show a disabiltiy/retraining cost? It's not as good as ACPA but it's still there. Also, I know of one Captain in 2003 who made 220K and another the same year and scale who made 120K... so it's pretty hard to tell what a WestJet pilot makes since the Options vary so much.
Martin - reread the last few pages of the salary award, I stand by my statement. Otherwise I'm with sobering up (within 12 hours anyways 
). Between age 60, merger history, ACE payout, and ? other issues ACPA seems to always be running down roads that lead nowhere instead of leading a united pilot group into improving our lot in life. And WJ700 it's misleading to look at t4's only - the company's contribution's are shown there but the actual value is only realized when the shares are able/actually sold (is it one or two years?) down the road. We also have perks like share matching, performance incentive, and we can even try to factor in differences in medical/dental when comparing our companies. Our management did during the salary arbitration and as you know they won big time.
). Between age 60, merger history, ACE payout, and ? other issues ACPA seems to always be running down roads that lead nowhere instead of leading a united pilot group into improving our lot in life. And WJ700 it's misleading to look at t4's only - the company's contribution's are shown there but the actual value is only realized when the shares are able/actually sold (is it one or two years?) down the road. We also have perks like share matching, performance incentive, and we can even try to factor in differences in medical/dental when comparing our companies. Our management did during the salary arbitration and as you know they won big time.
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Jaques Strappe
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That comparison chart was manufactured by ACPA as a presentation tool in an attempt to show that AC pilots are not getting paid enough. While I believe that all pilot salaries should be higher, there is some information that has been left out by ACPA with regard to pension compensation.
Just because it came from ACPA, it doesn't mean it is actually accurate.
As for the original question about ALPA vs ACPA, having been a member of both, the biggest difference I find is that ACPA looks within its membership for volunteers who may have a degree or some form of formal education in a specific field. While these members devote much of their free time to the cause, they have little or no practical experience. ALPA just goes and hires a proffessional to do the job when it is needed, which I believe, is the way it should be done. ACPA prides itself as being a "grassroots" organization, which it was in the beginning. Most founding members won't have anything to do with todays ACPA.
Just because it came from ACPA, it doesn't mean it is actually accurate.
As for the original question about ALPA vs ACPA, having been a member of both, the biggest difference I find is that ACPA looks within its membership for volunteers who may have a degree or some form of formal education in a specific field. While these members devote much of their free time to the cause, they have little or no practical experience. ALPA just goes and hires a proffessional to do the job when it is needed, which I believe, is the way it should be done. ACPA prides itself as being a "grassroots" organization, which it was in the beginning. Most founding members won't have anything to do with todays ACPA.
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