Have You Signed A Bond?

x-wind · Post by **x-wind** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:37 am

$500.00 deposite, C-206 for 1 year.

My first job.

fougapilot · Post by **fougapilot** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:39 am

Max,

a bond is a contract...

7000hrs;
7PPC;
5 type ratings;
countless hand shakes;
Zero bonds.

F

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:48 am

Anyone know when bond started coming into effect.

Was it AC and Jazz's last hiring spurt?

happily.retired · Post by **happily.retired** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:52 am

But not every contract is a bond. Most times a contract is a good thing for everyone involved, but bonds I'd have to disagree with. My concern is that good quality pilots are eliminated from the hiring pool because they can't come up with thousands of dollars once the've already invested so heavily in their careers. Demand a time commitment, fine, but demanding cash is IMHO uacceptable and unheard of in every other industry in the world. Even those with equaly high training costs.

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:15 am

What other industry has training costs this high? Do you think that short, prorated bonds that require no cash upfront are unreasonable? Those are bonds, and currently I see them as the only fair way to protect both pilots and employers in the current state of this industry.

Crazymax · Post by **Crazymax** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:20 pm

Lommer wrote:What other industry has training costs this high? Do you think that short, prorated bonds that require no cash upfront are unreasonable? Those are bonds, and currently I see them as the only fair way to protect both pilots and employers in the current state of this industry.

Any professional career. Engineers are paid crap in their first years and yet, they have paid huge amounts for their education... That is just 1 example...

Max

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:28 pm

Crazymax wrote:
Lommer wrote:What other industry has training costs this high? Do you think that short, prorated bonds that require no cash upfront are unreasonable? Those are bonds, and currently I see them as the only fair way to protect both pilots and employers in the current state of this industry.
Any professional career. Engineers are paid crap in their first years and yet, they have paid huge amounts for their education... That is just 1 example...

Max

What are you talking about? I have an engineering degree. I worked 1 year as an engineer after getting laid off from an aviation company (non flying) right after Sept 11. I have never made as much money in aviation before or since that time.

I paid more for my flight training than my engineering degree.

Crazymax · Post by **Crazymax** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:34 pm

You must have been lucky... Many of my friends still have shitty pay and paid 50K for their studies....

That's why I went for the free education/free flight training thing

Max

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:18 pm

Crazymax wrote:
That's why I went for the free education/free flight training thing

Max

I did too. Then I quit. 7 years of my life wasn't worth the sacrifice. Especially when the training aircraft I would have flown wasn't training people yet.

I don't know what your friends are doing as engineers, but I could quit flying today and make 50k.

I won't because I really have no interest in an office job. Been there, done that and would rather be at FL250.

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:35 pm

Crazymax wrote: Any professional career. Engineers are paid crap in their first years and yet, they have paid huge amounts for their education... That is just 1 example...

My brother is an engineer too and his 5 year degree was much cheaper than my 4 year degree (when you factor in flight training costs). He's on his first job right now and is making low pay ($50k... ironically, it will be years before I see this much). He was just offered a job last nite in California starting at $85k USA with a whole bunch of incentives and allowances. And that's with less than 10 months work experience. If only aviation was like that...

oncle · Post by **oncle** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:54 pm

one time ONLY 10,000 with guy marcoux(QUEBEC AIR EXPRESS AND I LOSS ALL. IT WAS A DEPOSIT AMOUNT OF 10,000 IN CASCH .IT WAS A FIRST TIME FOR ME AND THE LAST...............

Crazymax · Post by **Crazymax** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:54 pm

I'm on my first job as a pilot and I make 50K a year and I'm not even trained to their standards yet. Something's wrong with what you guys do

Jokes aside, most of my buddies are still junior engineers, which means they can't sign anything yet. They work in Quebec, I don't know if it makes any difference... Anyways, I admit that their salary's far from the 15-25K a year a junior pilot makes but it's nothing big. How much did you Aviation Degree cost you???

Max

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:27 pm

2 year training bond, stayed five. 2 jet types.
Fair, honest, no money up front. Excellent company, great flying, great pay. I'd do it again.

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:32 pm

Crazymax wrote:I'm on my first job as a pilot and I make 50K a year and I'm not even trained to their standards yet. Something's wrong with what you guys do

Drug Mule isn't a long term flying career

The Mole · Post by **The Mole** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:45 pm

Refused to sign a bond last summer, with my current employer. They didn't react well. I stood my ground and they gave the training anyway. After a some negotiations. Don't let a company push you around.

Meatloaf · Post by **Meatloaf** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:12 pm

My word is my bond. I will never work for a company that would force me to sign one. I leave, I pay. That simple.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:09 pm

Never had one. I'd go drive a truck (not that there's anything wrong with trucks) before I'd even consider signing anything. If I say I'll be there for a year, I will. If that's not good enough....so long, farewell, ta ta!

LostinRotation · Post by **LostinRotation** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:03 am

Doc wrote:Never had one. I'd go drive a truck (not that there's anything wrong with trucks) before I'd even consider signing anything. If I say I'll be there for a year, I will. If that's not good enough....so long, farewell, ta ta!

I hear ya, but if your word is your bond, whats wrong with signing one if your planning on keeping your word ne-way ?

I did my research before I signed mine...to me it's a non issue because I plan on staying and they spent far more on me than my bond is.

-=0=LiR=0=-

wingtip · Post by **wingtip** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:18 am

With all the opportunities in this industry, I can't believe: a) pilots are still working the dock/ramp, b) people are stupid enough to finance a company through paid training bonds.

Give your heads a shake whores!!

RB211 · Post by **RB211** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:31 am

Doc wrote:Never had one. I'd go drive a truck (not that there's anything wrong with trucks) before I'd even consider signing anything. If I say I'll be there for a year, I will. If that's not good enough....so long, farewell, ta ta!

You know that, but a company doesn't know that about you. Unfortunately you are probably in the minority when it comes to keeping your word. Sadly, most employers have probably been burned believing someone's "word". It seems to me there is a general lack of integrity in today's society.

With all the opportunities in this industry, I can't believe: a) pilots are still working the dock/ramp, b) people are stupid enough to finance a company through paid training bonds.

Give your heads a shake whores!!

This topic has to differentiate between paying upfront for the cost of training and signing a bond whereby one will reimburse a company for a prorated amount of training costs should they elect to leave before a specified time.

A company wants an oportunity to receive some return on their investment in you. This comes in the form of work.

The next argument/justification for leaving early is that if a comany just paid "well" people would stay. While there is truth to this, if you don't take the time to know what the pay/working conditions of a job are before you take it that's your fault.