Pilot Guild?

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Cat Driver
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Post by Cat Driver »

" 3. Ensure pilots receive the required initial and recurrent trainning on company aircraft at no cost to them (outlaw buying PPCs). "
Two suggestions:

(1) Force TC to recind the transferrable PPC.

(2) If a pilot receives training on a given aircraft and jumps ship before the employer received proper use of said training, kick the pilots ass out of the guild or association or whatever it would be called.
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snaproll20
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Post by snaproll20 »

Odysseus, have you checked how much lawyers cost?

No fund could support all the actions that would be taking place.
And good luck extracting $25grand a year from senior AC pilots.

I offered to run this thing about a year ago and now I am retired, I have the time.
Just send me $10 initial sign-up fee and I will tell you who you can work for and how much you can make and when to forward more money to support this worthwhile cause. (Promotion may be adversely affected if you are behind on your payments.)

Oddly, nobody bit last time, but it's worth a second try!
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Odysseus
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Post by Odysseus »

Hey Snaproll, yeah I have an idea how much lawyers cost, some of my buddies are finishing up their law degrees and they'll be making lots more money right out of school than will for quite a while. That's part of the reason we need some sort of fund to help with legal fees, because its out of reach for most of us. I'm not saying every single pilot out there should get a free lawyer once they join, I'm just pointing out the fact that its near impossible to defend oneself in court against an operator with deep pockets or against TC for that matter.

I hope that by the time I'm happilly retired as you are now, I never will have set foot in court, but what if one day I'm being sued by TC, or what if my employer fires me for unjust cause? Even if I personnaly never use my share of what I donate to the fund, if it helps a pilot who truly needs it then I'll be happy to contribute.

Basically there's no line of defense for pilots, if something goes wrong, its the pilot's fault and that's the end of the matter. In some cases, I'd dare say the issues stretch a little further than the pilot's responsibility and we need to have legal options outside of a one sided court battle.
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Dust Devil
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Post by Dust Devil »

Odysseus wrote:Hey Snaproll, yeah I have an idea how much lawyers cost, some of my buddies are finishing up their law degrees and they'll be making lots more money right out of school than will for quite a while.
And they likely have alot more training in their field right out of school than you did.

When being a pilot requires the same dedication to education as being a doctor or lawyer then you can compare salaries.
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happily.retired
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Post by happily.retired »

Why don't we start small by providing an honnest source of opinion free info for other pilots.

1-Let each other know what we're making for doing the same job at other places.

2-Let people who are thinking of entering the industry know what they can expect to make.

These are extremely simple and fair.
They give pilots valuable information to negotiate with
They will reduce the number of people who invest $50K to earn $10K on the other end
Supply goes down. Demand remains constant. Wages go up. No pilots have to give up money or power.

I'll even start

PPL, CPL, MIFR and Instructor rating - 4 years about $50,000

1st job - 8 months seasonal instructing and dispatching. More than 40 hrs/week at the airport. About $1,000/month

2nd job - 7 months seasonal instructing and unpaid dispatch / telephone operator. More than 40 hrs/ week at airport. About $500/month

3rd job - Full time. Perminant. Full benefits. Pension after 20 years. Paid training. About $4,000/month *Not in aviation*
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happily.retired
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Post by happily.retired »

Yes I know I was getting severely screwed in both cases. I was obviously promised far more than I got, but while operators have bonds to insure they don't get burned rookie pilots have no such safety nets and are led to believe they are lucky to have any job at all.
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Panama Jack
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Post by Panama Jack »

Four1oh wrote:I hear China is still communist...
I'm afraid you would be mistaken.

Common myths:

1) China is Communist
2) Canada is democratic
3) USA provides noble examples to follow
4) The jelly in jelly donuts is really jelly.

There are a few others.
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Cod Father
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Post by Cod Father »

I don't like the term Guild. Professional Association has a better ring to it. Think of it more along the lines of what Doctors and Lawyers belong to (colleges of physicians and surgeons and the bar associations or law societies)

Yes. Senior, retired, active, ATPL and commercial pilots, helping active underemployed, and unemloyed pilots, lobbying government for working conditions and forcibly boycotting employers who are sub par. Pilots who go to work for banned employers get penalized by the professional association, ie: good luck getting a job elsewhere for a term period.

Yes, pilots equivalent to Doctors and Lawyers.
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Orsen Madjeans
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Great ideas

Post by Orsen Madjeans »

There are some great ideas here and if we can all agree on something it's that there is a problem in this industry/profession.
We have common goals between operators and pilots the most important is that we all need to make a living/profit. When one group exploits another or allows ones self to be exploited we all lose in the long run.
It begs the question that, doctor's and lawyers aside, why does our profession on average pay so poorly and demand so much when there is money to be made. It seems that it is the order of the day, and possibly unfortunate mindset, that we are made to believe that salaries are killing aviation.
We can't control fuel, overhead, landing fees, aircraft costs or insurance like we can control salaries. You can't say to an insurance company, "sorry we can't pay that much so take it or leave it" and by the way "if you want to insure my airplane, you will have to come and answer the phones every weekend". It's people against people. The average pilot is on their own, they don't know what others are getting or how to define their worth.
Canadians in particular have come to expect more for less in general and nowhere like air tickets. People will pay for nice vacations, fancy meals and fancy cars but an air ticket is like paying taxes or having your furnace fixed. Not a luxury. You can fly to Europe and back for much less than you could in the 60's or 70's. Wal-Mart has done nobody any favours in our society.
We need an organization to bring perspective to our industry, to advance common goals and represent people and operators alike. The airline industry is largely represented by ATAC and presents a lopsided perspective to government.
We need to have a voice with government, support each other through communication and education, and advance technical and safety issues through a common effort. This has been said eloquently through earlier posts on this thread.
I want to work for an operator that respects me for my contribution and solicits my efforts as part of a team and rewards me or shares the fruits of our labours fairly. I am really tired of being lied to and exploited.
We do a valuable job, a high risk demanding job that although does not require 10years of university, demands constant learning, checking, risk and responsibility. We are the first to condemn our peers and collegues when they fail and this has to change. :idea:
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