Why I can be such a dick

[Dust Devil]

I'm wondering if there is another subject other than global warming or the middle east that we can bitch and complain about for a while. Hmmmmmm anyone want to buy a ppc by chance? That one hasn't been beat to death has it?

[sky's the limit]

Global warming
BIG DEAL
Who cares, you people are turning it into a religion to be worshipped.

I, as a Catholic, believe God will end this world one day, not us humans
So who gives a damn
This doesn't mean we should treat the world like a garbage hole

But it doesn't mean you have to get freaky and turn global warming into a damn religion

I feel sorry for you. What's the view like with your head so far up your ass?

Now Catholics, perhaps we should start a thread on the death and suffering that little group of people have caused over the centuries, and continue to this day....

stl

[taxiway_matthew]

Now Catholics, perhaps we should start a thread on the death and suffering that little group of people have caused over the centuries, and continue to this day....

No ones stopping you..I'd like to hear what you have to say
Let me get the ball rolling for ya...
1) Inquisition
2) Crusades
3) Pius XII and WWII

Perhaps God, if he exists, gives a damn. He gave us Eden, and we pooched it the first time - do you think He'll be happy that we did our best to mess it up again?

Now God was more pissed the Adam and Eve sinned rather than they 'ruined' the tree. Of course He cares about this planet...and we ought to care about it too (Vatican is becoming the first carbon neutral state)...but there's more pressing matters at hand to worry about then to get all wrapped up in this environmentalist crap.

[North Shore]

but there's more pressing matters at hand to worry about then to get all wrapped up in this environmentalist crap.

Uhh, hardly. Does it really matter which ideology runs the world, or how our economy is faring if the world can no longer comfortably support our living on it? It's not like we can move elsewhere.

[sky's the limit]

Where's Tin Tin when you really need him anyway?

stl

[erics2b]

Let's take a look at how long the earth has been around for. Now compare that to how long (real, sophisticated) human beings have been around for.

Now I'm no rocket scientist, but one number is at least slightly bigger then the other.

Because of the lack of a significant observation time, to even pretend that humans can accurately predict the subject of global warming/cooling is just ignorant. It would be like if a toddler started to predict the stock market .

I agree that polluting is not the best things humans can do for the planet, but corp joe is some hypocrite: he flies a couple old rich dudes around all day, then lectures us on global warming.

[Rockie]

To even pretend that humans can accurately predict the subject of global warming/cooling is just ignorant. It would be like if a toddler started to predict the stock market

And your scientific credentials to make this statement would be...

[erics2b]

To even pretend that humans can accurately predict the subject of global warming/cooling is just ignorant. It would be like if a toddler started to predict the stock market

And your scientific credentials to make this statement would be...

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

[Rockie]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

Very clever. I must remember to write that down for future use.

There is a warning being given by the vast majority of the worlds environmental scientists that lots of people still aren't believing. It's like all those people who refused to believe the Titanic was sinking when the guy who should know, the Captain, was telling them so. You think you know more than scientists who have spent lifetimes studying this and are bonofide experts in the subject. And your personal contribution to this problem is attacking people who you deem hypocrates because they fly corporate jets with two people on board. I'm not singling you out here but rather speaking about the collective "you" who are so intent on criticizing individuals that they don't see the problem.

I dislike bandwagons myself and am naturally suspicious of them, but I'm at least open to the fact that bandwagons occasionally go in the right direction. As pilots we are trained to take the safest course of action in any situation which is why I'm puzzled at the dogmatic rejection of this in the face of so much scientific evidence. If we do nothing to address global warming and the scientists are right, what have we done to ourselves? Personally I would rather clean up the world.

[...]

Where's Tin Tin when you really need him anyway?

stl

I love that guy...I even have a painting hanging over my bed. It's the only thing the 'clinic' lets me have in my room. Otherwise they would have to up my daily 'Ritalin' intake.

[Dust Devil]

Personally I would rather clean up the world.

Nothing wrong with cleaning up the world and trying to do better but it needs to be done at a reasonable pace. Alot of these enviromentalist fanatics want us to move at such a rate that the current style of economy that we have would be devastated. Alot of them say ya but an economy could be built around the new enviromental movement. And they are right but if it isn't done at a reasonable rate the transition will be very difficult.

[Rockie]

Personally I would rather clean up the world.

Nothing wrong with cleaning up the world and trying to do better but it needs to be done at a reasonable pace. Alot of these enviromentalist fanatics want us to move at such a rate that the current style of economy that we have would be devastated. Alot of them say ya but an economy could be built around the new enviromental movement. And they are right but if it isn't done at a reasonable rate the transition will be very difficult.

That's very true and I completely agree. It takes a cool head to balance all of society's requirements. I believe that is the Prime Minister's approach to this, it has to be done in a measured way or risk severe economic damage as well. That doesn't appeal much to the more rabid environmentalists but then they don't have to run the country.

[cyyz]

You all enjoy your Summer BBQ's, eating those burgers??

Well guess what, your cows(the meat) are the biggest producers of methane.

Don't worry about driving a prius or a hybrid, stop eating Beef, have the beef sellers go broke, kill their stock and have no more cows on the planet and we won't worry about such high producers of pollutants...

Milk for your cereal, sorry just soy...

But wait a minute, our Prime Minister hasn't told anyone about the cows?? Why not, oh wait, he's got a seat in Alberta..

What happened to cattle when mad cow occured and to the Albertan farmers?

But it's okay, he's fighting it at a cars level,good he has oil companies that can make and refine cleaner oil... What??? He's having the ontario Auto makers make cleaner and more efficient cars and letting the oil companies create the same crappy oil with their same dirty inefficient ways??

But it's okay, Alberta for all it's polluting can pay for their crimes with their high provincial sales tax... Wait a minute, they don't have a PST because they produce so much harmful oil???

You guys see a trend?? Preach, preach preach, no action...

[Dust Devil]

You all enjoy your Summer BBQ's, eating those burgers??

Well guess what, your cows(the meat) are the biggest producers of methane.

Don't worry about driving a prius or a hybrid, stop eating Beef, have the beef sellers go broke, kill their stock and have no more cows on the planet and we won't worry about such high producers of pollutants...

Milk for your cereal, sorry just soy...

But wait a minute, our Prime Minister hasn't told anyone about the cows?? Why not, oh wait, he's got a seat in Alberta..

What happened to cattle when mad cow occured and to the Albertan farmers?

But it's okay, he's fighting it at a cars level,good he has oil companies that can make and refine cleaner oil... What??? He's having the ontario Auto makers make cleaner and more efficient cars and letting the oil companies create the same crappy oil with their same dirty inefficient ways??

But it's okay, Alberta for all it's polluting can pay for their crimes with their high provincial sales tax... Wait a minute, they don't have a PST because they produce so much harmful oil???

You guys see a trend?? Preach, preach preach, no action...

Check the air quality of Calgary or Edmonton and compare it to Toronto. The Ontario auto industry is a bigger problem. Although I will admit that the air quality at 6:30am in Highlevel in the wintertime is the worst I've ever seen. You can hardly breath in that town sometimes.

[CID]

The comparison between Calgary and Toronto is troublesome. Toronto has pretty polluted air but it also is situated in major industrial area and is affected by other large industrial centers on both sides of the border.

Toronto also has about a third of the entire population of Canada within a couple of hundred miles radius.

[Dust Devil]

The comparison between Calgary and Toronto is troublesome. Toronto has pretty polluted air but it also is situated in major industrial area and is affected by other large industrial centers on both sides of the border.

Toronto also has about a third of the entire population of Canada within a couple of hundred miles radius.

Regardless it is voters in these Major cities that look out their windows and see smog and then look at the other side of the country and try to blame them for their hardships. How about trying to fix the problem in your own backyard.

And why is it ok to say Toronto can have poor air quality because it's in an industrial area? Why can't we say Western Canada can produce Co2 because they have one of the largest oil deposits in the world? If Toronto is located in a heavy industrial area then why not shut down their industry like they want done in Western Canada?

All the reasons you put for allowing Toronto to be such a heavy polluter are because of decisions made by man. Therefore all those decisions can be reversed.

[sky's the limit]

Where's Tin Tin when you really need him anyway?

stl

I love that guy...I even have a painting hanging over my bed. It's the only thing the 'clinic' lets me have in my room. Otherwise they would have to up my daily 'Ritalin' intake.

I always wanted a bedroom like that growing up... Nice to see someone had what I never did. Absolutely Classic Birdy.

stl

[dirtpoorflyr]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spi ... 56,00.html Hey, Look at the bright side......They are able to farm in Greenland now!!!!!....(to be read as sarcasm)......Keep up the battle Corporate Joe.

[CID]

And why is it ok to say Toronto can have poor air quality because it's in an industrial area? Why can't we say Western Canada can produce Co2 because they have one of the largest oil deposits in the world?

Actually I was addressing the fact that pollution is man made and that if you consider the per-capita effect on the environment, Toronto probably isn't worse than Calgary.

I'm not saying shut down the oil industry, I'm just explaining how comparisons between Calgary and Toronto are troublesome. You can't just consider the geographic area.

Having said that, I'm not only concerned about the pollution the oil production industry makes directly, I'm concerned about how the western world is addicted to fossil fuels.

The oil lobby works hard to convince us all that oil is the only viable source of energy. So they pollute while they produce, and we pollute as we consume the stuff. And not only is oil a non-renewable resouce, the Alberta oil industry figured out a way to pump fresh water (an essential resource) into the ground in such a way it can't be recovered. They do this to allow them to extract the oil from the gooey tar sands.

I read from one source that the Alberta oil industry pumps anm amount of water into the ground equivalent to the consumption of Calgary and Edmonton annually.

[Dust Devil]

I read from one source that the Alberta oil industry pumps anm amount of water into the ground equivalent to the consumption of Calgary and Edmonton annually.

Another example of a "statistic" taken out of context. Most of the water the oil industry pumps into the ground is heavy water that originated from the same formation. Cement jobs do use fresh water though but I doubt the volume annually you claim.

[CID]

Most everything I was able to find on the subject identifies the Athabasca River as the primary source of water for the Alberta oil industry. I wasn't able to find anything that supports your statements Dust Devil. Maybe you can help me out. Even the posts from the oil companies concentrate on reducing the dependancy on fresh water from the Athabasa. I couldn't find anything about the use of "heavy water".

Is that the right term anyway? I thought heavy water was water with deuterium in it used in atomic reactors.

But to produce one million barrels of oil a day, industry requires withdrawals of enough water from the Athabasca River to sustain a city of two million people every year.

http://oilsandstruth.org/projects-regio ... -tar-sands

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/200 ... 39858.html

http://www.blah3.com/article.php?story=2007061519193116

http://www.pembina.org/media-release/1384

http://www.canadians.org/WorldWaterDay/oil.html

http://www.canadians.org/WorldWaterDay/oil.html

http://www.tarsandswatch.org/running-out-steam

[sky's the limit]

I read from one source that the Alberta oil industry pumps anm amount of water into the ground equivalent to the consumption of Calgary and Edmonton annually.

Another example of a "statistic" taken out of context. Most of the water the oil industry pumps into the ground is heavy water that originated from the same formation. Cement jobs do use fresh water though but I doubt the volume annually you claim.

So DD,

How do you explain pump trucks running around the Alberta farmland draining farmers slews in the middle of the night? Myth? I don't think so, I've been there personally on MANY occasions. The oil industry in AB is raping the land, and when it's gone, there will be nothing left. Nobody gives a shit about what's going on, lipservice at best is paid to the environment. It's a farce.

stl

[Dust Devil]

you still need fresh water to pump cement as it doesn't agree well with salt water.


CID

In the oil industry heavy water refers to water that has salt in it or alot of times kcl. it's used as a method of keeping a well under control. By adding salt or kcl to water and pumping down an oil well you can increase they hydrostatic pressure of the colume of fluid in the well bore to equal or greater than the formation pressure thus preventing the well from flowing to the surface.

Yes fresh water is used by the oil industry I didn't say it wasn't but I don't belive that the statistic givin is just fresh water. If oil wells didn't use fresh water for the cement jobs you would have horrible groundwater contamination then we would have a serious problem. Alot of wells in northern alberta for example are going to be enviromental nightmares because of shitty cement jobs mainly due too their age.

I really don't belive there is anyway to make these enviromentalists happy. The industry is far better then it was even 10 years ago and yet the enviromentalists still go on and on with their doomsday scenarios.

As I've said before the air is clear out here. The problem is cars in these densly populated areas like Southern Ontario. As soon as they clean up their back yard then they can critisize us for ours.

[the_professor]

I read from one source that the Alberta oil industry pumps anm amount of water into the ground equivalent to the consumption of Calgary and Edmonton annually.

And as one of the countries with among the highest quantities of fresh water in the world this would be a concern because....?

Red Herring.

[CID]

the_professor,

The water that is pumped into the ground to recover the crude oil stays underground. It's taken out of the "rotation" so to speak and no longer available to contribute to the water cycle.

Furthermore, the fact that Canada has a large quantity of fresh water doesn't mean we should waste it. Furthermore, there are many factors that affect our reserves and access to it.



http://www.innovationcanada.ca/21/en/articles/myth.html