Captains – All Aircraft: Year #1 $30,000.00 / annum

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flight instructor
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Post by flight instructor »

ok no worries.

If you guys think 30000$ to do this job are enough, fair enough. (or 48000$ before tax with the mileage whatever)
As long as you stop trying to convince everyone this job blows, you won't have to worry about having to do it yourself...
That' s right. Everybody is entitled to appreciate if his own wage is appropriate.

As I said I didn' t want to hurt any feelings, so if everybody is happy with this salary then I am very happy for you.

Cheers.
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chu me
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Post by chu me »

As there is currently a shortage of flight instructors in this country( a severe shortage) do not be surprised if your instructor rating pays you more than flying a twin for the next little while. I personally am thinking of renewing mine to make some extra cash on the side! $20,000 base plus $25/flt hr thats unbelievable, my first instructing job paid me $11,500 for the whole year ,before taxes!! And, I had to work 90 hrs a week for that!! ( Yeah Yeah I know what your thinking........ and he had to walk to work in a snowstorm,... barefoot,..... up hill , .....both ways!!) I'm glad that flight instructors are finally being paid something decent .Remember no instructors = no new pilots!!! Don't let your rating slip !
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F/O Crunch
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Post by F/O Crunch »

Wasn't sayin the pay is sweet... The way you tried to describe the job was brutal. No need to do that, manypeople LOVE doing the job and don't need you telling em' it sucks. No big thang! :) Why don't you post things like that on the Parking Meter Guy Website Forum...

Maybe its the wine talkin'...:P
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jetway
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Post by jetway »

Nope, don't work there, never have - have no idea about Thunder Bay.
There is never an "I win" outcome to the never ending salary debate... the grass is as green as you want it o be.
If pilots were getting paid what we "deserve" then airline tickets would actually cost more than what they do now. I all trickles down and the trickling that has been ongoing for years isn't just going to start waterfalling into people's laps.
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bcflyer
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Post by bcflyer »

Flight Instructor...

I'm still waiting for these jobs that pay "way better" to start as a light turbine twin captain without having to live in the middle of nowhere for weeks on end.
Just out of curiousity what are your qualifications?
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newalliance123
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Post by newalliance123 »

Just a thought usually we fly 1200 miles / day. So 30,000 plus 120 /day + per diem. do the math.

F/o's are only .02 per mile so even a 30K base FO wont get same pay as CAPT.

Yr 2 captain gets .12/ mile etc...
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flight instructor
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Post by flight instructor »

BC Flyer,

How do you consider Timmins?


For the company that we don' t mention, your average income after tax is below 3000$ per month. I personaly think that' s not enough for an experienced pilot.

There is a LOT of place in the world where you can make the same money flying a single engine piston.

An other question: how much the maintenance is paid in the same company?

I have decided to continue to reply because you asked me question and we seem to have a gentleman' s discussion.
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Chuck Yeagermister
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Post by Chuck Yeagermister »

Well then Flight Instructor why dont you answer BCflyers question........
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flight instructor
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Post by flight instructor »

My answer:

Timmins IS in the middle of nowhere. And mostlikely that' s where you are going to fly with the company we refer to.

Do some research you can find the same kind of job at 65000$ a year within Canada.

Please read again my posts. I said the company we are refering to is NOT THE WORSE. I was clear since the beginning.

I still think this is underpaid.

That 's more a general statment about the wage in Canada, and I took this example. I am polite at anytime regarding this company and their employee.

But why should they pay more anyway, when you can find cheapest companies...

Have a good flight.
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Stan_Cooper
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more pwnage.

Post by Stan_Cooper »

flight instructor wrote:Do some research you can find the same kind of job at 65000$ a year within Canada.
...at Thunder Airlines, for example.
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flight instructor
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Post by flight instructor »

Stan,

I mean 65000$ as soon as you are hired.

With the company you mention how long time you will have to wait to be paid this amout? 2-3 years. Who is still in this company after 2-3 years?
Very very few individual.

So their scale:

Year #1 $30,000.00 / annum base plus 0.10/ mile;
Year #2 $42,000.00 / annum base plus 0.12/ mile with a $5,000 bonus upon completion of Year # 2
Year #3 $ 70,000.00 SALARY plus $5,000 retention bonus annually
Year #4 $ 75,000.00 SALARY plus $5,000 retention bonus annually
Year #5+ $ 80,000.00 SALARY plus $5,000 retention bonus annually

is irrelevent.

What will happen to a newly employee? 1 year at 25000-30000$, an other year at 30000$. And after he will leave for jazz at 38000$.

And we are speaking about experienced pilot, with 1,2 or 3 years of successful experience as pilot before being hired by this company.

there is exceptions, but what I describe is what usually occurs.

So if you read:

Year #5+ $ 80,000.00 SALARY plus $5,000 retention bonus annually

It just doesn' t exist (yes there is, again, EXCEPTIONS).

So after a successfull 5 years career as pilot (there is worse path and companies) you won' t be able to buy a car, a house and rise a family. In addition, because of the very low wage at the very beginning of you career, the the low wage after 2-3 years, you will still reimbourse your loan every month.

What is surprising me, is that even "good" companies, participates (creates?) the shamefull situation of the pilot.
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planeless
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Post by planeless »

what does voyageur pay their captains to start out?
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Stan_Cooper
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Post by Stan_Cooper »

flight instructor wrote:Stan,

I mean 65000$ as soon as you are hired.

With the company you mention how long time you will have to wait to be paid this amout? 2-3 years. Who is still in this company after 2-3 years?
Very very few individual.

What will happen to a newly employee? 1 year at 25000-30000$, an other year at 30000$. And after he will leave for jazz at 38000$.
I don't know why I even bother, but here it goes...

No junior captains at Thunder are complaining about pay. The pay's above average. 30,000 per year is the amount of money you make for being on call. Basically you get paid 125 per day 240 days per year to answer your phone. I see a Thunder pilot above posted 1200 miles a day... So either you make 125 bucks to watch TV and go to the gym, or you make 245 to go to work.

Like I suggested earlier... If you compare to NAC, Wasaya, Bravo, Bearskin, Voyageur, Commercial Aviation, Wabusk, FlightExec, Creebec, SkyNorth, Perimeter; Thunder's not at the top of the list, but it doesn't come out looking too bad for light twin turbine.

flight instructor I'm sure you've got a handle on commenting on pay for instructors, but how do you really know what a job should pay until you've actually done it? I don't claim to know what fair pay is for helicopter pilots because I've never been one... But I have a pretty good idea what a fixed-wing medevac captain should make.
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bcflyer
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Post by bcflyer »

flight instructor wrote: Timmins IS in the middle of nowhere. And mostlikely that' s where you are going to fly with the company we refer to.

I think this quote alone pretty much sums up your experience. If you think that Timmins is the middle of nowhere, you obviously haven't been anywhere that even closely resembles "the middle of nowhere"
Do some research you can find the same kind of job at 65000$ a year within Canada.
Humour me and post some of these jobs please.
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Chuck Yeagermister
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Post by Chuck Yeagermister »

bcflyer wrote:
flight instructor wrote: Timmins IS in the middle of nowhere. And mostlikely that' s where you are going to fly with the company we refer to.

I think this quote alone pretty much sums up your experience. If you think that Timmins is the middle of nowhere, you obviously haven't been anywhere that even closely resembles "the middle of nowhere"
Do some research you can find the same kind of job at 65000$ a year within Canada.
Humour me and post some of these jobs please.

That... and his handle
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sakism
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Post by sakism »

bcflyer wrote:Humour me and post some of these jobs please.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=36243

Now, I'll grant you this is out of the ordinary, but you asked.

It should be noted that this gig is based in Island Lake - makes Timmins look like the centre of the universe.
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bcflyer
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Post by bcflyer »

sakism wrote:
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=36243


It should be noted that this gig is based in Island Lake - makes Timmins look like the centre of the universe.
You should be paid at least that to live in Island Lake!! LOL
Still waiting for those 65000 a year to start that don't require you to live in the middle of nowhere...
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Conquest Driver
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Post by Conquest Driver »

You should be paid at least that to live in Island Lake!! LOL
You may want to re-think that. As far as I know, you're Island Lake 5 days out of 10 in company housing. I'm pretty sure you get "rotated" to and from YWG.

Now if they went to 14 in/14 out, I think there are lots of guys who would be interested.
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flight instructor
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Post by flight instructor »

Did I say that the medivac operations should be set in the international airports?

Sorry I don' t understand your point. Are you saying that they don' t need to pay you the proper wage because you are located at Thunder bay or Timmins?

Do you mean that when it comes to aviation, the best pay are upnorth, and in the international airports the pay is the lowest?

Would you say that in Timmins you are with your family? (grand parents, mother father and friends...? so Timmins or Island lake...)

Sakism found for you a company that is ABLE to pay $ 65,000 on base plus mileage system as soon as you are hired, why an other similar company is NOT ABLE and only pay you half?
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Last edited by flight instructor on Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
flight instructor
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Post by flight instructor »

No junior captains at Thunder are complaining about pay. The pay's above average. 30,000 per year is the amount of money you make for being on call. Basically you get paid 125 per day 240 days per year to answer your phone. I see a Thunder pilot above posted 1200 miles a day... So either you make 125 bucks to watch TV and go to the gym, or you make 245 to go to work.

Like I suggested earlier... If you compare to NAC, Wasaya, Bravo, Bearskin, Voyageur, Commercial Aviation, Wabusk, FlightExec, Creebec, SkyNorth, Perimeter; Thunder's not at the top of the list, but it doesn't come out looking too bad for light twin turbine.
Do you think that being on call justify the fact to be paid less?
I would think the opposite. when your schedule is set in advance you can set your life for your family and activities.

No junior captain complain about the pay? Of course they are too busy to file the application form for Jazz (they are right to do that, nothing wrong here). I mean this is a step for them, with the hope to leave as soon as possible to have better career opportunities.

You said it yourself: this company is not at the top of the list. And anyway the others company don' t pay too much.
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flight instructor
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Post by flight instructor »

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... t=voyageur

Position: King Air Captains - Thunder Bay, Sioux Lookout, Timmins, Moncton
Company Name: VOYAGEUR AIRWAYS LIMITED
Contact: Human Resources Department
Street Address: 1500 Airport Road
City: North Bay
Province: Ontario
Country: Canada
Web Address: http://www.voyageurairways.com
Email Address: resume@voyageurairways.com
Phone Number: (705) 476-1750
Fax Number: (705) 476-6773
Apply Via: Email, Fax
Aircraft Types: King Air B200, King Air A100

Please quote Reference No. 071102 when applying.

Dedicated Air Ambulance bases in Thunder Bay, Sioux Lookout and Timmins Ontario; Moncton, New Brunswick.


Job Description:

We are currently accepting resumes for Captains for our Dedicated Air Ambulance Operations.

Ontario Captain Minimum Requirements:

- 2000 TT
- 500 Multi-PIC
- Valid ATPL

New Brunswick Captain Minimum Requirements:

- 3000 TT
- 500 Multi-PIC Turbine
- Valid ATPL

* Preference will be given to individuals with time on type.


Voyageur Airways Limited offers a company-sponsored benefit package which includes: dental care, vision care, extended health care, life insurance, short and long-term disability insurance, employee assistance programs, and a jointly funded retirement pension program.

Voyageur Airways Limited also offers opportunities for advancement to our Dash 7, Dash 8 and CRJ pilot programs.

Salary: $65,000 Based on Experience

Don' t forget there is a training bond at Thunder aswell... and no prorata.
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water wings
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Post by water wings »

They lie - based on experience for 65 - they lie.. unless you have "great big rocket ship" in your logbook, your are NOT making that for the 200 or 100 medevac gig at voyageur...to start, that is (like everywhere else, your pay goes up substantially after the 1st year - so i hear) A friend was offered pretty crappy pay at FExec as well, to make way better in the 2nd year.
unless all the guys i talked to (and my friends) are telling me they are making shit money just to make me feel better.
and i just talked to a guy that PAID for a bond at voyageur, a buddy of mine paid at FExec and PS, i am on a pro rated bond at thunder.

but what - evOr... obviously we peeps that do the medevac can handle our own and make our own decisions on what is good for us and our lives. We don't need a whole bunch of hosers telling us we suck, cus we don't. We make ok coin for a job that is sometimes uber challenging (the last 4 days), but other times, pretty sweet. You make the decision what works FOR YOU and stop pissing on others. My grass may not be luscious & green and dotted with roses, but it's green enough for me and has been that way since i made Captain. I am sure the voyageur and FE peeps can tell you same - or else they wouldn't BE THERE! pphht.
At this point of the industry, you should be able to work out your own "special deal" if , i say IF you have any value to the company... the whole minimum multi PIC time etc. Several pilots are pretty much on their own deal with lots of these companies, so what is posted, may merely be a suggestion.
my T4 says i get paid pretty well.

(my plane is louder that your plane!! priceless)
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Post by Stan_Cooper »

flight instructor wrote:Do you think that being on call justify the fact to be paid less?
I would think the opposite. when your schedule is set in advance you can set your life for your family and activities.
Being on call should and does pay more than flying for a scheduled operator, including at Thunder. I was just explaining to you how the pay works.
flight instructor wrote:No junior captain complain about the pay? Of course they are too busy to file the application form for Jazz (they are right to do that, nothing wrong here). I mean this is a step for them, with the hope to leave as soon as possible to have better career opportunities.
Yeah you're right, whenever you try to talk to someone at Thunder they're always too busy updating their Jazz application.
flight instructor wrote:You said it yourself: this company is not at the top of the list. And anyway the others company don' t pay too much.
I said this to underline the fact that I know what the list looks like, which I still don't think you do.
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Stan_Cooper
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Post by Stan_Cooper »

flight instructor wrote:Position: King Air Captains - Thunder Bay, Sioux Lookout, Timmins, Moncton
Company Name: VOYAGEUR AIRWAYS LIMITED
Ha you're using Voyageur as an example of companies with awesome pay? There's a thread just below this one right now titled "36k - 42k for a King Air 100 Captain. Voyageur at it. Again." Way to go.
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flight instructor
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Post by flight instructor »

Stan: it was to humour BCflyer. :D
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