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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:20 pm
by shimmydampner
Mr. North wrote:Why would Kenora Air be at the bottom of the list Shimmy?
-Crappy pay
-Crappy machines/maintenance
-Crazy boss
Very few places offer much more for zero-timers. It's crap pay, but not that crappy.
$1500/month is pretty damn crappy for a 185.
Try to look for privately regristered aircraft that are used for lodges in Ont. and Man.
Just be careful you don't haul guests if you go that route, that requires a commercial registration and ops certificate. Had a buddy that lost a job when his boss got nailed for that.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:15 am
by Mr. North
Well we could argue about this forever.
But my last tip for the new guys would be not to jump on the first job offered (unless of course its a good one). Try and get a feel for whats out there, 2008 is going to be a good year for pilots.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:53 am
by DA42
Not sure if this is going to matter at all, but does it make a difference that I got my endorsement on a 172 instead of a 185? I can't exactly go back and do it again lol.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:08 pm
by dober
It totally depends on what the operator flies. IMO, the 185 is probably the snakiest of the standard floatplanes out there, so training on it or a 180 is a good idea. But at 7 hours of float training, there will be a lot of on the job training before the boss will let you go (or at least there should be). I would wait for the job prospects and pay for the training only if you think it would really help.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:47 pm
by DA42
That's kinda what I thought. I mean with only the 7 hours that I already have from the endorsement it shouldn't make a difference because I'm such a newbie to the float world and have so much more to learn. If flying a 185 on floats is important because it has a more powerful engine and CS prop, it shouldn't be a big deal because I've got 20-30 hours on a C182 already.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:49 pm
by Highsea
DA42 wrote:Not sure if this is going to matter at all, but does it make a difference that I got my endorsement on a 172 instead of a 185? I can't exactly go back and do it again lol.
If your working for a place that cares at all the Owner/CP is going to train you to how he wants his aircraft to be flown. I did rating on 172 and I got a little time on a 180, When I had some extra money to do so. Most places I have called don't care about time on type. They just want to know your time on floats and TT.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:24 pm
by shimmydampner
Mr. North wrote:Well we could argue about this forever.
But my last tip for the new guys would be not to jump on the first job offered (unless of course its a good one). Try and get a feel for whats out there, 2008 is going to be a good year for pilots.
I don't see what there is to argue about forever, I'm not saying don't work there, I'm just saying on the potential list of places to work, it should be at the very bottom for the reasons listed previously, shit pay, shit machines, shit maintenance, cuckoo bananas boss. There's a reason that progession is so fast there...because not too many people stay very long! Fast progression and jumping from the Cessna to a Beaver as quick as possible is over-rated. The Cessna has alot to teach new pilots, probably more-so than the Beaver. I wouldn't necessarily agree with your tip about not jumping on the first job offered, especially for low timers. You have to be able to discern the good from the bad, and the ability to do so usually comes from being screwed over at least once or twice. The first offer could very well be the only offer a newbie gets. I would say take into consideration all factors, then try to make an educated, informed decision based on them. The first offer could very well be the best, just the luck of the draw really.
No big deal if you did your rating on a 172 or 180/185.
The 185 may be the snakiest but I'd take it any day over the 20shit.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:00 pm
by DA42
Thank You.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:35 pm
by Mr. North
Of course your "not saying don't work there" but thats hardly what your last post implies... If KAS is on the bottom rung of places to work then surely your overlooking some real contenders. Believe it or not there are worse employers other then the one you have in mind. I know because I've worked for them! I made the mistake of working for these mickey-mouse operators because when I started out I jumped on the first job I was offered. And by doing so I passed on other offers that were potentially better/safer. That is why I say keep things in perspective and think before you act regarding your offers. Newbies shouldn't have a problem getting offers this year if they do the right amount of leg work.
We're both making it sound like these newbies will Beaver pilots tomorrow which isn't the case either. The company knows that Cessna experience in the begining is invaluable as you mentioned. They'll put in a season on one before they move up that much is certain. That being said the difference between KAS and other operators is the 50hr dual requirement or lack there-of. Checking a guy out and cutting him loose so he can learn from his own mistakes is both good and bad. More often then not good because you shouldn't need 50 dual to fly a 185 solo (for some 50 dual would be the better choice

). This is something you kids should seriously take into acount when considering your "shitty" wage among other things.
As for me, I enjoyed my time there, the work, the machines, and the people (except for one lady) were all great. After 5 seasons and 4 operators, last year at KAS was my favorite and most productive hands down. However like any operation there's always room for improvement.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:52 am
by Chuck Ellsworth
We're both making it sound like these newbies will Beaver pilots tomorrow which isn't the case either. The company knows that Cessna experience in the begining is invaluable as you mentioned. They'll put in a season on one before they move up that much is certain.
Is the Beaver really that more difficult to fly than a Cessna that you should have a season on the Cessna before attempting to fly a Beaver?
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:17 am
by Rudder Bug
Right on ..
What's the point of starting the young guys on a 185 instead of a Beaver, which is so much more forgiving and easier? Why start with the most difficult?
You bet I would check my kids out on the Beaver first and fly the 185 myself for a while if I was running an outfit.
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:32 pm
by shimmydampner
Mr. North wrote:Newbies shouldn't have a problem getting offers this year if they do the right amount of leg work.
Exactly my point, so why should they accept $1500/month to fly airplanes that are notorious for being less-than ideally maintained. A first year 185 driver should be making at least $2500.
Mr. North wrote:As for me, I enjoyed my time there, the work, the machines, and the people (except for one lady) were all great. After 5 seasons and 4 operators, last year at KAS was my favorite and most productive hands down. However like any operation there's always room for improvement.

While it's good to hear that you enjoyed your time there, after 5 seasons you should know by now that there are, without question, far better operators out there that will pay you what you are actually worth. I'm not trying to slag you or a job you enjoyed (I have many, many friends who have worked there), but with your experience, you could have been flying a better machine for alot more money, and probably with a more level-headed boss

. I was offered a Beaver spot with KAS this past spring and turned it down for a couple reasons, most importantly was the insultingly low pay--only $200/month more than what I made at my first 185 job (where housing was included on top of that.) Turned out to be a great decision since I ended up at a fantastic operator, who I never have to worry about taking flack from if I choose to turn around due to weather, not depart due to weather, not to take ignorant loads, etc. Add to that the impeccably maintained machines and the fact that I made literally twice what KAS offered to pay me. I realize that there are worse operators out there, I have worked for a couple of them myself, and that's why I don't say don't work there. But, there is a very good chance, as you pointed out, that with good timing and some research and leg work, alot of newbies could do alot better for themselves.
Is the Beaver really that more difficult to fly than a Cessna that you should have a season on the Cessna before attempting to fly a Beaver?
Actually, I don't think either are really all that difficult to fly. They each have their own quirks, but once you get onto them, they're just an airplane. A 185 is a squirrely bird, but if a pilot can't handle it, they probably shouldn't have a pilot license. I don't necessarily agree with starting a newbie on a Beaver. Everyone likes to point out the Beaver is more forgiving than the 185, but there are a few things that an inexperienced float driver is likely to do out of sheer lack of experience that you can get away with in a 185 and merely scare yourself, but do the same thing in a Beaver and you may not be able to get away with it period. The 185's better power-to-weight ratio and climb ability allows it to pull itself out of shitty situations much easier than the Beaver, at least, in my opinion.
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:01 pm
by Mr. North
Jesus. How many operators out there pay $6000/month for a beaver driver? If your right Shimmy I better pack my bags!!
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:15 pm
by shimmydampner
Not many, but if you leave Ontario, you'll find lots that will pay $4500 to $5000 for sure, and plenty more than that for Caravans and Otters. Sounds like you have the time for them so unless you have something tying you down where you are, I'd be gone in a heartbeat. Lots of potential for year round employment too. Head north Mr. North.

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:42 pm
by Mr. North
didn't know you were online... sent you a pm but you pretty much answered it, thanks
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:00 pm
by xsbank
Try and get yourselves to the companies before the ice goes out and you can build docks and outhouses etc. to stay warm and as soon as the ice goes you should be getting checked out.
Re: First Float Job?
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:56 am
by thatsa130-iflya180
Thanks guys for those posts, very informative. Few questions though.
I've got 300 hrs and 50hrs floats, mostly a 180, some on a super cub and 1.5 on a beaver. I'm west coast, and would love to stay here, but that doesn't seem very likely, what with the local guys asking for 250 to 1000 hrs on floats. Anyway:
-What should I expect to start off with for salary?
-How many hours should I expect to be getting in a given week/month?
-Has anyone heard what North Pacific Seaplanes is like to work for?
Thx

Re: First Float Job?
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:16 pm
by motherfokker
Head on up to a lil place called La Ronge or Lynn Lake, they'll put ya to work right away.

Re:
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:56 pm
by bkn4thr
Rudder Bug wrote:Right on ..
What's the point of starting the young guys on a 185 instead of a Beaver, which is so much more forgiving and easier? Why start with the most difficult?
You bet I would check my kids out on the Beaver first and fly the 185 myself for a while if I was running an outfit.
Rudder bug I believe if you had to pay the insurance bill you would reverse your decision. I believe this is why newbies are started on the cheepest aircraft in the fleet.
bkn
Re: First Float Job?
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:27 pm
by phillyfan
I had a pilot tell me once how easy the Beaver was to fly. He spun it into a lake in Northern Ontario killing himself and 4 passengers.
Re: First Float Job?
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:49 pm
by Chuck Ellsworth
I had a pilot tell me once how easy the Beaver was to fly. He spun it into a lake in Northern Ontario killing himself and 4 passengers.
He could also have done the same thing in a 185.
Re: First Float Job?
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:03 pm
by phillyfan
I guess we'll never know for sure.
Re: First Float Job?
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:17 pm
by Rowdy
All airplanes are dangerous.. lets ground the whole lot of them. BETTER YET! You should all stop flying completly.
There will be plenty of dock/180 and 185 spots out there this coming season. Make sure you're going somewhere that actually promises to stick you in an airplane and you'll be golden.
The west is not the best to start off with