The last couple of guys I know that got on had 6000 or more TT with a fair bit of time over 12500lbs. I have heard of guys getting on with less. I think the hours will come down as the expansion is now slowing and guys are likely to sit longer in the right seat.
as for the 30K I know the contract allows for the company to keep the money in the event of failed training. I do not know the induviduals in question so thats why I am not a hundred % sure!
Training Bond
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
SG might have just got fokker number 12 but there is only enough crews for 8. It is nice to have lots of spares though.
The two guys that have been let go were given more then AMPLE opportunity to get through the training. The last thing the company wants is to deal with law suits over the 30G. But it would suck to quit a job for SG, fail the training and lose 30G at the same time. The only reason to my knowledge that SG gets away with charging for the bond is because they offer everyone at least a 7% return making it look like something it is not, an investment.
The two guys that have been let go were given more then AMPLE opportunity to get through the training. The last thing the company wants is to deal with law suits over the 30G. But it would suck to quit a job for SG, fail the training and lose 30G at the same time. The only reason to my knowledge that SG gets away with charging for the bond is because they offer everyone at least a 7% return making it look like something it is not, an investment.
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Jaques Strappe
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Is the 30K really a training bond or is it a means to inject cash into Leblancs' pockets?
I mean, if it is really a "training Bond" that is repayable, why not train your pilots and have them sign a promissary note that is forgiven, over say a 2 year period. ( or whatever the pay back period is ) If a pilot leaves, then part of that bond is payable on a pro rated basis, to recover training costs.
I don't endorse paying for a job but at least this way, Jetsgo can reduce the revolving door effect ( if there is one ) without asking its' employees for money.
So what happens if Jetsgo decides to close shop? Leblanc has a long history of doing just that. Who gets left holding the $30K bag with a useless endorsement?
If the "training Bond" is a means of financing the airline on the backs of its' pilots, then I would hope that the Pilots are getting some sort of profit sharing. Does any other employee group have to pay for training?
To go to the bank and ask for a $30K unsecured loan assuming you are unemployed and therefore need the Jetsgo job, must be next to impossible! Does Jetsgo offer loan guarantees to the bank?
I find this "training bond" thing fascinating. If it is what I think it is, kudos to Leblanc and god help our industry as professional pilots.
I mean, if it is really a "training Bond" that is repayable, why not train your pilots and have them sign a promissary note that is forgiven, over say a 2 year period. ( or whatever the pay back period is ) If a pilot leaves, then part of that bond is payable on a pro rated basis, to recover training costs.
I don't endorse paying for a job but at least this way, Jetsgo can reduce the revolving door effect ( if there is one ) without asking its' employees for money.
So what happens if Jetsgo decides to close shop? Leblanc has a long history of doing just that. Who gets left holding the $30K bag with a useless endorsement?
If the "training Bond" is a means of financing the airline on the backs of its' pilots, then I would hope that the Pilots are getting some sort of profit sharing. Does any other employee group have to pay for training?
To go to the bank and ask for a $30K unsecured loan assuming you are unemployed and therefore need the Jetsgo job, must be next to impossible! Does Jetsgo offer loan guarantees to the bank?
I find this "training bond" thing fascinating. If it is what I think it is, kudos to Leblanc and god help our industry as professional pilots.
yeah the bond is kinda crappy, and yes this has been beat to death with the whole evil Jetsgo thing and $30000 blah blah blah. I did find http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/westjet/westjet.htm interesting in that the first year FO was so out of whack with the rest of the pay scales and yearly increases. Could it be that some of this $10000 unrecouped difference between first and second year be going towards initial training?
It seems that maybe Westjet deducts from salary to pay for training in the first year, never to return it.
Jetsgo may take cash, but first year pay is full (Jetsgo scale) and will also return the rest of the principle over 2 years.
I understand both pay scales are sub standard and their may be other reasons for this Westjets 1st/2nd year pay differential. I'm not saying I agree with the bond, however I also dont approve of deducting pay off of pay cheques to cover training either. So whats worse, who cares, their both low cost airlines. Just I think we're all getting real tired of the bickerering over this bond thing.
It seems that maybe Westjet deducts from salary to pay for training in the first year, never to return it.
Jetsgo may take cash, but first year pay is full (Jetsgo scale) and will also return the rest of the principle over 2 years.
I understand both pay scales are sub standard and their may be other reasons for this Westjets 1st/2nd year pay differential. I'm not saying I agree with the bond, however I also dont approve of deducting pay off of pay cheques to cover training either. So whats worse, who cares, their both low cost airlines. Just I think we're all getting real tired of the bickerering over this bond thing.
Training bonds for a carrier like Jetsgo do not work. The reason is simple. Where a training bond is in effect it is up to the holder of the bond to pursue the individual in default. This means that Jetsgo would have to resort to added legal expenses which in turn equals added cost in order to retrieve the money it is owed. In the long run they might get their money but only at the cost of added time. Further, obtaining the money up front without question offsets their immediate costs.
It goes without saying, the system in place works to their advantage. Does that mean it is right. No. Unfortunately it is a sign of the times. We are the makers of our own demise so to speak. Driven to fly the next best thing or go after the job that pays better etc.
It goes without saying, the system in place works to their advantage. Does that mean it is right. No. Unfortunately it is a sign of the times. We are the makers of our own demise so to speak. Driven to fly the next best thing or go after the job that pays better etc.
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complexintentions
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Great post p-thrust
"...at least a 7% return:"
On top of the interest rate? Because the interest rate can vary from 8-10%
I find it curious that the 'creative accounting' seems to always have a escape loop-hole for SG and finacially operate on the backs of it's employee's.
It isn't enough that you make these kids walk in with a $30K cheque but you must also insure no responsibility to your staff by making it look like something it is not, an investment just to double end any possibility if SG was taken to court because when it eventually failed or was sold to another company and no need to honor the repayment of the 30K?
Or a starving pilot realized they could not support their family with a large debt load because they 'took a risk' (as someone stated in another thread in this JetsGo forum?)
Anyone can own an airline.
Not anyone can operate a company.
pimper wrote: The only reason to my knowledge that SG gets away with charging for the bond is because they offer everyone at least a 7% return making it look like something it is not, an investment .
"...at least a 7% return:"
On top of the interest rate? Because the interest rate can vary from 8-10%
I find it curious that the 'creative accounting' seems to always have a escape loop-hole for SG and finacially operate on the backs of it's employee's.
It isn't enough that you make these kids walk in with a $30K cheque but you must also insure no responsibility to your staff by making it look like something it is not, an investment just to double end any possibility if SG was taken to court because when it eventually failed or was sold to another company and no need to honor the repayment of the 30K?
Or a starving pilot realized they could not support their family with a large debt load because they 'took a risk' (as someone stated in another thread in this JetsGo forum?)
Anyone can own an airline.
Not anyone can operate a company.
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Rubberbiscuit
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Canus Chinookus
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Rubberbiscuit
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Kenny Blankenship
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"Only Intrest for the first 6 months"
That really sweetens the deal!!!!
you just coughed up 30 grand, you don't get paid till the first guy gets on line, probably around a month and a half. And for the first 6 months your responsable for the prinicple payment on a $30000 loan, finaced over 2 years...........OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess the only way into jetsgo is with deep pockets.
And I dont think jetsgo pays for more than 7% intrest either. Your average pylit would have a hard time getting that good a deal on a 2 year loan that big. If you didn't borrow the money to get on a jetsgo please ignore this cause obviously, you or your parents are very well off, and we shall save that for another day
So, for the clown who continually states that the 30000 is an "investment"
I've got some great realestate for sale in the everglades, only 25Gs.
This is not a bond but a way to get the average joe out of the buissness and save the flying for those that have aton of cash allready!!
KB
That really sweetens the deal!!!!
you just coughed up 30 grand, you don't get paid till the first guy gets on line, probably around a month and a half. And for the first 6 months your responsable for the prinicple payment on a $30000 loan, finaced over 2 years...........OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I guess the only way into jetsgo is with deep pockets.
And I dont think jetsgo pays for more than 7% intrest either. Your average pylit would have a hard time getting that good a deal on a 2 year loan that big. If you didn't borrow the money to get on a jetsgo please ignore this cause obviously, you or your parents are very well off, and we shall save that for another day
So, for the clown who continually states that the 30000 is an "investment"
I've got some great realestate for sale in the everglades, only 25Gs.
This is not a bond but a way to get the average joe out of the buissness and save the flying for those that have aton of cash allready!!
KB
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Rubberbiscuit
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tripleseven
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Kenny:
Just a word on financing... if you find the right bank you don't have to pay any principle during the first 6 months.
As for an investment, well I suppose if you had the cash on hand it would be, otherwise I agree, it certainly does not qualify as monetary investment.
Just a word on financing... if you find the right bank you don't have to pay any principle during the first 6 months.
As for an investment, well I suppose if you had the cash on hand it would be, otherwise I agree, it certainly does not qualify as monetary investment.
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Canus Chinookus
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tripleseven
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Canus Chinookus
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Jaques Strappe
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I know one guy who went to the U.I. office and said he could be employed tomorrow at Jetsgo if he had $30k for training.
He actually qualified for some re-employment scheme, so it would appear that the rest of us are now also paying.
Don't tell Birddog, he will have a fit!
He actually qualified for some re-employment scheme, so it would appear that the rest of us are now also paying.
Don't tell Birddog, he will have a fit!
Standby for new atis message
....It's like talking to a wall....gasper wrote:
It's funny how all the guys who don't have the stomach to take a calculated risk keep harping and harping on this 30K issue.
Sir, the 30K issue is the start of something deeper...I think you all choose NOT to understand the inifinate damage you are doing to our lifestyle and those to follow us in the future.
"don't have the stomach to take a calculated risk"
Thats got to be the most ignorant thing I have ever read...After reading this statement...I have just realized who I am talking to...I feel like an idiot...I have been talking to SHEEP the whole time...this IS my last post addressing any of you on this subject...
Good Luck (SG) folks...please fly safely.
IABD
Last edited by ... on Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
gasper wrote:I must say Rubber Biscuit you're posts are great! And I agree with you on many of them!
SG is really not that bad of a job is it! I have far less of an issue with the $30K than most folks do. If it comes to losing the cash then I say "Easy come - easy go". To tell you the truth, I haven't lost a moments sleep over the issue. I don't consider that amount of money worth worrying about. You have to make decisions in life based on what's on your plate at the time. What's the worst thing that could happen? The worst that could happen is that I lose the balance of the loan. Do I think that will happen? NO!
It's funny how all the guys who don't have the stomach to take a calculated risk keep harping and harping on this 30K issue. No one twisted my arm to be here; it was entirely my decison, and I still think it was a great decision for the lifestyle I wanted. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Meanwhile, I've had a great time learning all kinds of new stuff. It's been great flying coast to coast and way down south. I've also liked learning the FMS glass cockpit. What an amazing and capable aircraft! (If you don't know much about the F100 - it's BEAUTIFUL to fly!) I've also had the opportunity to work with/learn from some of the greatest FMS glass aviators anywhere on the planet!
Sure SG has had a few very minor wrinkles along the way, but from my perspective - LIFE IS GOOD! It will get even better as time goes on and the minor wrinkles are ironed out. (Remember WestJet's wrinkles - They decided to shutdown themselves for 5 weeks after a Transport Canada audit on their maintenance department was going to force TC to suspend their Operating Certificate - Since then, Westjet has gone on to build a terrific airline from some very humble beginnings and with a great bunch of people!).
In fact, all things considered, SG has been the best job yet for me and my situation and I've had a few good jobs through the years. It's a real treat just to be able to live back "home" here in Ontario! ....and to tell you the truth, I think that this company will be around for many years to come.
Look what has been accomplished so far! No one has ever before been able to orchestrate the many aspects of an airline and bring them together as fast as SG has. Everything isn't perfect, but it's a great place to work. If we can all do our best, stick together in Solidarity - it will work! I'm going to do my best to see this thing work by my [b[/b] a]attitudend effort! Flame away if you want to, but I know many of my collegues feel the same way.
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P.S. : If you want to walk on water, You have to get out of the boat!
