We should not forget our friends in the middle east just because of a few murderous maniiacs, our friends are suffering too,
We should help liberate them as we did for the Germans who were oppressed by Nazi's first and Commies.
Do not turn your back on our friends who seek our help or they may be embraced by the Evil that is a plauge on their land.
Here's a big ol' can a worms.......
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog
Lord, you are being sarcastic, right???2R wrote: We should help liberate them as we did for the Germans who were oppressed by Nazi's first and Commies.
Do not turn your back on our friends who seek our help or they may be embraced by the Evil that is a plauge on their land.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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One of the best aids for a terrorist to slip into Canada is this knee jerk labeling of anyone who does not follow Canadas liberal multi cultural cult by calling them rasist.
Last time I checked most of the terrorists that attacked the U.S. on 911 were Saudi's.
So if I saw a suspicious acting middle easterner and figured I would bring it to someones attention, yes it could be called racial profiling, but does that make me a rasist?
Cat
Last time I checked most of the terrorists that attacked the U.S. on 911 were Saudi's.
So if I saw a suspicious acting middle easterner and figured I would bring it to someones attention, yes it could be called racial profiling, but does that make me a rasist?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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golden hawk
- Rank 7
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Cat;
Imagine what would have happened if the Captains of the four 9/11 aircraft had kicked the hijackers off at the gate because the Captains thought they were suspicious?
The Captain would have been suspended, CNN would have done an in-depth report on racism in the skies, and, oh yeah, three thousand innocent people would still be alive.
Imagine what would have happened if the Captains of the four 9/11 aircraft had kicked the hijackers off at the gate because the Captains thought they were suspicious?
The Captain would have been suspended, CNN would have done an in-depth report on racism in the skies, and, oh yeah, three thousand innocent people would still be alive.
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Cat Driver
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Or go to Saudi and see what "Rights" you have there.
Of course the first thing you would need to do is get a visa, now if you want to really find out about rasism just get off an airplane in Saudi Arabia and show up at immigration without a visa.
When they arrest you just demand your rights as a Canadian, remember Mr. Samson?
Cat
Of course the first thing you would need to do is get a visa, now if you want to really find out about rasism just get off an airplane in Saudi Arabia and show up at immigration without a visa.
When they arrest you just demand your rights as a Canadian, remember Mr. Samson?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Wow
Good points put out by everyone so far!
My two cents would have to be put towards checking into their backgrounds. If Daddy is giving them a wad of cash to fly, no big deal. It is not like these indeviduals were oblivous to what happend on Sept. 11! They made the decision to take lessons here in Canada, so they should be quite aware of the difficulties that they will(should) incounter by looking to take flying lessons. If they have nothing to hide, they should not object.
But the KEY thing for these individuals to do, at first, is to live up to what they say. Prove that they have the training they say they do. If not, by all means, call the feds. Better safe then sorry. Remember, if the rolls were reversed, I am sure the middle eastern authorities would be just as cautious (if not more) about a couple of Canadian citizens looking to take lessons over there.
Best of luck.
Adanac
My two cents would have to be put towards checking into their backgrounds. If Daddy is giving them a wad of cash to fly, no big deal. It is not like these indeviduals were oblivous to what happend on Sept. 11! They made the decision to take lessons here in Canada, so they should be quite aware of the difficulties that they will(should) incounter by looking to take flying lessons. If they have nothing to hide, they should not object.
But the KEY thing for these individuals to do, at first, is to live up to what they say. Prove that they have the training they say they do. If not, by all means, call the feds. Better safe then sorry. Remember, if the rolls were reversed, I am sure the middle eastern authorities would be just as cautious (if not more) about a couple of Canadian citizens looking to take lessons over there.
Best of luck.
Adanac
Good day, eh!
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Siddley Hawker
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- Location: 50.13N 66.17W
Elliot Moose makes a pretty fair point there regarding their piloting - and other - skills. I remember being on course at FSI when a group of guys showed up to do the initial and take delivery of a G2 for a certain Mr. Dada. They were really nice people, easy to get along with. All of them were pilot officers in Mr. Dada's air force, but FSI had to run them through their Vero Beach facility just to show them how to keep the blue side up.
If you're woried about racial profiling, sad as it is, here's a couple of facts. The guys that took out the WTC and the Pentagon were what I call 3M's. They were Male, Middle Eastern and Muslim. Also, if the profiling that was available to US airlines at the time had been applied to the 9/11 hijackers, 13 of them would have been nabbed at the gate. If stating this makes me a racist, tough shit.
It's your call whether to call down the wrath of Kahn on those guys, but it's like the saying "It's better to be down here wishing you were up there...etc...
If you're woried about racial profiling, sad as it is, here's a couple of facts. The guys that took out the WTC and the Pentagon were what I call 3M's. They were Male, Middle Eastern and Muslim. Also, if the profiling that was available to US airlines at the time had been applied to the 9/11 hijackers, 13 of them would have been nabbed at the gate. If stating this makes me a racist, tough shit.
It's your call whether to call down the wrath of Kahn on those guys, but it's like the saying "It's better to be down here wishing you were up there...etc...
First off, thanks to everyone for their input. I'm going to look at the papers these guys provided, and make a discreet call to the RCMP and ask them if there is anyway to verify how up and up these guys are. If the RCMP is happy with them, then so am I.
Someone mentioned that if 9-11 had not happened I wouldn't even be asking these questions. To this I answer; "Yes". Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
This is not a race issue. I work with many CANADIANS that have different complexions than mine. I'm friends with most of them, and some of them are assholes. Just like the white guys I know.
We as a society have to examine our basic assumptions and objectives when dealing with the racial profiling issue.
One has to examine the possible consequences when deciding which side to error on in this matter. Traditionally Canadians have favoured a more liberal approach. That is to say that when there was a doubt as to wether or not someone was dangerous, they were usually given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to go free. The idea was to give the government weak powers of detainment and thus avoid a dictatorship. This principle was based on the assumption that no one was part of a large scale group that had both the means and the will to harm society.
The above stated assumption is no longer valid. 9-11 proves that. There are elements that want to see the downfall of our society. We are in a position where erroring on the liberal side of things will have marked and profound consequences. To put it in practical terms, which is more palatable; a hundred thousand people inconvienced, (worst case scenario barred from this country), because of their security profile; or a hundred thousand people dead because someone wanted to make a political statement.
I am not advocating that action be taken against people just on their religion. We can not bar and detain all muslims. It would be wrong. However, we are going to have to scrutinize things very carefully, and unfortunately, religion and country of origin are the starting places for that scrutiny.
As an afternote, someone mentioned that just because these guys got Canadian tickets did mean that they'd be working in Canada. I had not thought of that, and it is a good point,
Someone mentioned that if 9-11 had not happened I wouldn't even be asking these questions. To this I answer; "Yes". Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
This is not a race issue. I work with many CANADIANS that have different complexions than mine. I'm friends with most of them, and some of them are assholes. Just like the white guys I know.
We as a society have to examine our basic assumptions and objectives when dealing with the racial profiling issue.
One has to examine the possible consequences when deciding which side to error on in this matter. Traditionally Canadians have favoured a more liberal approach. That is to say that when there was a doubt as to wether or not someone was dangerous, they were usually given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to go free. The idea was to give the government weak powers of detainment and thus avoid a dictatorship. This principle was based on the assumption that no one was part of a large scale group that had both the means and the will to harm society.
The above stated assumption is no longer valid. 9-11 proves that. There are elements that want to see the downfall of our society. We are in a position where erroring on the liberal side of things will have marked and profound consequences. To put it in practical terms, which is more palatable; a hundred thousand people inconvienced, (worst case scenario barred from this country), because of their security profile; or a hundred thousand people dead because someone wanted to make a political statement.
I am not advocating that action be taken against people just on their religion. We can not bar and detain all muslims. It would be wrong. However, we are going to have to scrutinize things very carefully, and unfortunately, religion and country of origin are the starting places for that scrutiny.
As an afternote, someone mentioned that just because these guys got Canadian tickets did mean that they'd be working in Canada. I had not thought of that, and it is a good point,
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Boss Hawg
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these guys have to know they're gonna attract attention. they have to also know, nay, are probably expecting to be contacted by the authorities at some point in their training. and of course the authorities will look into it, and of course they will find nothing, because a) if they have nothing to hide there won't be anything to find, and b) if they have any brains at all they would have thought up a good cover story, and there won't be anything to find.
this is racial profiling. it's been used for years by police and other authorities. why? because it works. it may sound racist and unfair and not sit well with the more pc types but it's reality.
this is racial profiling. it's been used for years by police and other authorities. why? because it works. it may sound racist and unfair and not sit well with the more pc types but it's reality.
Actually no it does not work any longer..boss_hawg wrote: this is racial profiling. it's been used for years by police and other authorities. why? because it works. it may sound racist and unfair and not sit well with the more pc types but it's reality.
Toronto Judge threw out the case where the cops arrested the "good samaritan" who was driving around regent park at 2am and was driving in a $100,000 Benz..
Projects + $100K car != Good citizen(99% of the time)
So the cops arrested him..
I don't know if his car had tinted windows, but you know our cops they can see through tint anyways.
Lo and behold, our cops thought it was a drug dealer and JC it was...
But yeah, it happened to be a black guy..
So yeah, that case got thrown out of court...
One example of racial profiling getting thrown out does not discount its use today. It is a known method for criminologists, police detectives and customs and immigration. Profiling is used to determine not just the physical attributes of someone but also their tendencies of predictable behavior. Don't any of you watch CSI???Actually no it does not work any longer..
Toronto Judge threw out the case where the cops arrested the "good samaritan" who was driving around regent park at 2am and was driving in a $100,000 Benz..
Projects + $100K car != Good citizen(99% of the time)
So the cops arrested him..
I don't know if his car had tinted windows, but you know our cops they can see through tint anyways.
Lo and behold, our cops thought it was a drug dealer and JC it was...
But yeah, it happened to be a black guy..
So yeah, that case got thrown out of court...
It is a part of society now and only going to get more prevalent as a result of post 9-11 fear syndrome in western culture.
Wrong, maybe in the US. But Canada is Tree Hugging liberal PC country.yycflyguy wrote: One example of racial profiling getting thrown out does not discount its use today. It is a known method for criminologists, police detectives and customs and immigration. Profiling is used to determine not just the physical attributes of someone but also their tendencies of predictable behavior. Don't any of you watch CSI???
It is a part of society now and only going to get more prevalent as a result of post 9-11 fear syndrome in western culture.
Now you'll just have cops ignore "suspects" in Jane + Finch, Regent Park and other areas just so they don't get labelled as racists..
But the joke is on them, when they start doing that, they'll be called racists for not doing there job... So they're damned if they do and damned if they don't..
By the way, the Toronto cops want to hire 1000 new employees.
Whites need not apply...
Last edited by LT on Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ScudRunner
- Rank 11
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- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:58 am
Um Quick Question here, These guys say they have military training so of course they have hours of flying experiance. I would assume enough to qualify for the ATPL, Doesnt that just require a written test with an IFR ride.
What sort of flight training they doing on the twin?
Couldnt you learn how to carry out a 9/11 Attack with MSFS04 and minimal actual Flight training in just the basics?
Why would Jihad Joe bother with training here at all.
What sort of flight training they doing on the twin?
Couldnt you learn how to carry out a 9/11 Attack with MSFS04 and minimal actual Flight training in just the basics?
Why would Jihad Joe bother with training here at all.
Re: Here's a big ol' can a worms.......
Are you a expert in counter terrorism?mcrit wrote:We've got a couple of students at our flight school who recently arrived from another country. The country in question has had substantiated links to El Queda.
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Right Seat Captain
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Not from all countries!. wrote:Um Quick Question here, These guys say they have military training so of course they have hours of flying experiance. I would assume enough to qualify for the ATPL, Doesnt that just require a written test with an IFR ride.
Why don't you ask the terrorists that flew into the towers on 9/11. On second thought, ask their instructors.Why would Jihad Joe bother with training here at all.
Last edited by Right Seat Captain on Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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hey mcrit:
you should make a call just so that you feel no guilt if something turns up. i came across a similar situation a couple of years ago and i made that call. you can ask the owner of the island school to have someone "run" those names.
on the ohter hand, if there are any "sleepers" or active terrorists training in Canada i don't think running their names through police databases will turn up anything.
good luck.
you should make a call just so that you feel no guilt if something turns up. i came across a similar situation a couple of years ago and i made that call. you can ask the owner of the island school to have someone "run" those names.
on the ohter hand, if there are any "sleepers" or active terrorists training in Canada i don't think running their names through police databases will turn up anything.
good luck.
Watch out Cat! Because next thing you'll know is that some are applying at 800 Burrard street!Cat Driver wrote:Canada is a haven for any terrorist or crimminal who wants to come here.
Just show up and claim you are a refugee.
Cat
(Hmm, while writing this, some sort of innate CYA mechanism kicked in and made me change "Transport" for "800 Burrard street"... strange.)
Louis
