Mass exodus at Wasaya

[2milefinal]

I'm sure happy I was in aviation before you had to work the ramp to fly.

yeh no kidding.
I did my share of ramp/hanger/dock time but I was always doing at least a little flying.
Whatever works, i guess.

[Four1oh]

supply/demand.

[Prop Guy]

To the ground guys at wasaya, PM me if you're looking for a new job. wasaya is a tough go for ground guys and nothing will change there. This debate seems to be an annual reunion of the same crap. wasaya has huge issues, that no one seems willing to address. Like most operators they are waiting for the industry to grind to a halt. Then my friends you'll see 3 years of slugging pop and chips before the right seat of the turbine 172. I can't agree more with Doc, you're pilots, so find flying jobs.

However, get a few years in the industry and you'll find many operators who treat entry level pilots with dignity and respect.

Anywho, good luck and cheers!

[Mustard]

Well a lot of pilots come from wealthy families and are used to having things given to them.
They aren't familiar with having to work for something.

[Panama Jack]

Canadian aviation is all about "paying your dues." Unfortunately, so many people in Canadian aviation never ever get beyond paying their dues. No wonder so many leave for jobs abroad.

[Red Line]

Wow, if you think Wasaya is a tough go for ground guys/gals then you haven't looked around far! The people on the ground here make more money than actual pilots at many other companies. Some things do need to change, the term "wannabe" for one (I will NEVER use that term referring to a colleague), but you can't really complain about waiting 6 months to fly a Caravan as your first commercial plane at 230 hours! Some low-time pilots like to stay in their home city and instruct, and hey that's fine too! Others try moving north (and trust me, there are far more isolated places to work than Pickle Lake or Red Lake Ontario!) but find that it's not for them and leave. And still others find it to be one of the most eye-opening experiences of there life and get a good jump start to their career with enough stories to entertain family and friends for a lifetime. The best part about Canada is that the opportunities are so diverse. And remember that these days as a low-timer, you actually have the ability to pick and choose!

Red

[MarcF'nScott]

[Doc]

Red Line, you keep pounding that sunshine out your butt there sport! Waiting 6 months for a right seat on a Caravan? Get with the times. Go get a flying job.

And PJ, Pilots are "paying their dues" because they're just to stupid to say "no".......look at the jobs out there. Stop being "slaves" to the ramps.

There are more politics at Wasaya than most third world countries! It's not how well you suck up....it's who you suck up to.

End of rant.

[Red Line]

Wow, I've been defending the wrong people! Sir, I have a flying job. I'm just not gonna fault someone for seeking Caravan co-pilot as an entry-level position. I don't see how's it's any different than a Navajo co-pilot. Admittedly, I have not flown either one. I'm guessing they're both relatively simple for a low-time co-pilot, but no one calls a Navajo a "big Twin Comanche". Also I can only wish that my first company would have given pilots 11 GDOs/month and free Air Canada/Jazz jumpseat passes. But yes, as you correctly alluded, times have changed.

[Doc]

You may have misread me. Happens. Nothing wrong with a Caravan or a 'ho as an "entry level" job. Shouldn't have to kiss ass on the ramp for either one, though.

[thecaptain]

Well I can't resist so I'm going to put my two cents in on this.

I don't think everyone quite gets it. Especially those who are bitching about how poorly treated they are. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.. So pay attention to what I have to say, because this post is directed towards the slackers at Wasaya who continue to paint this company as a monster to it's employees. Not without are politics indeed, but Wasaya is certainly not in the policy of setting out to make someones life miserable.

You aren't poorly treated because people just woke up one day at big old evil Wasaya and decided you would look pretty with a target on your back. Nope. You're being poorly treated because your lazy, your work ethic sucks and you complain more than you work. You come to these places with your 200 hours and think you instantly deserve a chance at something that others before you have worked their asses off for. "Six months!!" you say.. "I'm worth so much more than that!!" Well heck son, maybe you are but maybe, just maybe you oughta prove that. Hey I have a fun idea, lets use an example that those of you who started this session of complaining about Wasaya can certainly see everyday.. right in front of those big hurt eyes.

There's a certain someone, a she, that works in Cargo in YPL. Works well, good attitude, never complaining, first one out to a plane to help whenever she can, smiling, blah blah blah. Are all of you that this applies too seeing a point here. You probably aren't because you have your heads stuffed way too far up your own asses to see my point. Let me simplify it for you.. dummy it down for ya. No one has to ask this girl to go and work, no one has to ask her to care and to do her job as best she can.. SHE JUST DOES IT!!! She has since she arrived. The rest of you.. don't even start mumbling to yourself that you did the same. You didn't. You bitched after your first week, you tried weaselling out of jobs that were indeed less than glamorous and some of you even found it amusing that you could get away with it. To really drive the fact home that you aren't as smart as you all think you are, you even went so far to think none of us would notice. Well guess what kids, we did, we do, and will continue to notice those that go beyond the extra mile, and those that can't even get around the corner. Some of you have already left.. I honestly hope you all the best in whatever you decide it is that you wish to pursue after this most terrible and painful experience.

Those of you who are working hard and honest, keep up the good work.. YOU ARE NOTICED and we all do appreciate it. You should know who you are, because when you work hard and honestly you'll know you did. Those who suck and try to cut corners, you won't ever have a day where you feel like you've put in 100%, and if you do still feel like you put in 100% even though you suck.. well hell son that's your problem!!

BTW... My views are not the views of Wasaya. They are my individual views and should be considered as such.

Have yourselves a good evening!

[Mr. North]

Wasaya is certainly not in the policy of setting out to make someones life miserable.

... but they have done just that in the past. A good friend of mine started in YRL a couple of years ago. After putting in some time he quit since he could no longer tolerate being berated by other pilots while management turned a blind eye. In the end his departure resulted in the YRL manager being dismissed.

An episode like this speaks volumes about company culture.





oh and they make rampies sign training bonds once they get online which I find unfair considering all the hard work they do (or should be doing!).

[anonypl]

Well I can't resist so I'm going to put my two cents in on this.

I don't think everyone quite gets it. Especially those who are bitching about how poorly treated they are. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.. So pay attention to what I have to say, because this post is directed towards the slackers at Wasaya who continue to paint this company as a monster to it's employees. Not without are politics indeed, but Wasaya is certainly not in the policy of setting out to make someones life miserable.

You aren't poorly treated because people just woke up one day at big old evil Wasaya and decided you would look pretty with a target on your back. Nope. You're being poorly treated because your lazy, your work ethic sucks and you complain more than you work. You come to these places with your 200 hours and think you instantly deserve a chance at something that others before you have worked their asses off for. "Six months!!" you say.. "I'm worth so much more than that!!" Well heck son, maybe you are but maybe, just maybe you oughta prove that. Hey I have a fun idea, lets use an example that those of you who started this session of complaining about Wasaya can certainly see everyday.. right in front of those big hurt eyes.

There's a certain someone, a she, that works in Cargo in YPL. Works well, good attitude, never complaining, first one out to a plane to help whenever she can, smiling, blah blah blah. Are all of you that this applies too seeing a point here. You probably aren't because you have your heads stuffed way too far up your own asses to see my point. Let me simplify it for you.. dummy it down for ya. No one has to ask this girl to go and work, no one has to ask her to care and to do her job as best she can.. SHE JUST DOES IT!!! She has since she arrived. The rest of you.. don't even start mumbling to yourself that you did the same. You didn't. You bitched after your first week, you tried weaselling out of jobs that were indeed less than glamorous and some of you even found it amusing that you could get away with it. To really drive the fact home that you aren't as smart as you all think you are, you even went so far to think none of us would notice. Well guess what kids, we did, we do, and will continue to notice those that go beyond the extra mile, and those that can't even get around the corner. Some of you have already left.. I honestly hope you all the best in whatever you decide it is that you wish to pursue after this most terrible and painful experience.

Those of you who are working hard and honest, keep up the good work.. YOU ARE NOTICED and we all do appreciate it. You should know who you are, because when you work hard and honestly you'll know you did. Those who suck and try to cut corners, you won't ever have a day where you feel like you've put in 100%, and if you do still feel like you put in 100% even though you suck.. well hell son that's your problem!!

BTW... My views are not the views of Wasaya. They are my individual views and should be considered as such.

Have yourselves a good evening!

The above comments are a perfect example of the attitude directed toward ground staff. I honestly don't think that people such as this are even conscious of their negative assumptions about the ethics and motivations of the ground workers - every action is assumed to be one of laziness and work avoidance. To work at Wasaya is to be exposed to this constantly, and it surely doesn't inspire someone to work harder.

[trey kule]

Help and old guy understand what is going on here. It seems that some people feel that to become a pilot you must work on the ramp and demonstrate to the employer that you are a great employee. When did that type of thinking really start?

It is a great deal for any employer. A readily available pool of pilots all striving to outdo each other to "prove" they deserve a what?....right seat on a Caravan!!!!! Or a Navajo!!!!

It seems to take two to play this game. Operators who want to take advantage of the situation and stupid pilots. the problem seems to occur when the stupidos suddenly realize that the realitiy is they are not going to just jump on the flying bandwagon for a while.

Lastly, there are differences in personalities. A good Ame may not make a good pilot and visa versa. A good helicopter pilot is not an indication of a good fixed wing pilot and visa versa., There is not necessarily a correlation between one and the other. A person who works great on the ground may not be able to keep the wings level or fly in a straight line. May decide to play with the company airplanes on empty legs. Just does not work as an indicator.

One of the very big problems is that the colleges are turning out a large number of twentish pilots with all the required qualifications and no flight experiences, and , no real work or life experience. They simply dont see flying as a job, and when they find out it is they...well they bitch.

[Cat Driver]

Where do I start on this?

First I would like to ask " thecaptain " why having only 200 hours somehow means a pilot can not fly to a high standard.

Second question:

Why would you choose to call yourself " thecaptain " ?

[thecaptain]

The above comments are a perfect example of the attitude directed toward ground staff. I honestly don't think that people such as this are even conscious of their negative assumptions about the ethics and motivations of the ground workers - every action is assumed to be one of laziness and work avoidance. To work at Wasaya is to be exposed to this constantly, and it surely doesn't inspire someone to work harder.

No one is assuming laziness. Those of you in this situation are there because you put yourself there. Stop blaming Wasaya for your lack of a work ethic. No one here assumes everyone is lazy, we just know, through those who choose to show it so well, that you are lazy. Interesting to note that since most of the bad apples have left, turn around times in Pickle Lake have been cut in half. Must be less talking about how much working for Wasaya sucks going on and more working. Hmmm... more people working instead. Interesting. As for inspiration to work?? Give me a break man. Go and watch Oprah if you want to be inspired. You shouldn't need to be inspired when you arrive at a new job. You bring your "A" game and nothing less. You stop whinning and suck it up. Maybe you need motivation?? Well look at the guys ahead of you that ARE flying.. They didn't spend their time complaining about Wasaya all day, they worked hard, they played hard, and now they fly. Maybe the problem is.. flying in this particular setting isn't for you. Who knows. I do know this. I sure am sick of you guys coming on here and ranting all the time about how crappy Wasaya is. There are worse operations to be working for. It's not a perfect company... You find me one that is.

Where do I start on this?

First I would like to ask " thecaptain " why having only 200 hours somehow means a pilot can not fly to a high standard.

Second question:

Why would you choose to call yourself " thecaptain " ?

I don't mean to say someone with 200 hours can't fly to high standards, in fact in some cases the fact that they are so new and willing to absord everything they can is a big plus and it pays off. Let me be a bit more clear here.. I'm not coming down on the 200 hour pilot. I am however certainly saying those who are brand new should not be walking into a job like this thinking they "deserve" it. Seriously is that how you thought when you started?? I sure as hell didn't. I was thankful as one can be to have a shot at flying for anyone. Along with being thanful I worked! I still do. I haven't had one single job where I approached it looking for the easiest way to get through while trying to screw coworkers over.

As for my choice of name.. Hell Cat I don't know.. my obvious lack of imagination?? You tell me.

[pinecone160]

.

[Cat Driver]

I am however certainly saying those who are brand new should not be walking into a job like this thinking they "deserve" it. Seriously is that how you thought when you started??

Actually when I got my first flying job I was so busy learning how to fly crop dusters it never occurred to me to think I deserved it. When I started the crop dusting course I had 252 hours T.T. when I did my first flight spraying Tobacco in a Cub I had 277 hours T.T.

For sure I didn't have to work the ramp to learn how to fly. That is doing it ass backwards.

[xsbank]

That is the biggest load of old cobblers and claptrap I have ever heard in my sojourn on this site.

Thecaptain is a certified retard.

Having to prove yourself an ace baggage smasher, fueler or plane-washer before you can fly is twaddle. You are being exploited! This comes up every 6 months or so and if you wish my opinion on it you can do a search. Naaa, I'm going to tell you anyway.

If the company is too stupid to know how to hire someone for a flying position, use a service! If you are hiring for a direct-entry captain, do you make 'em wash dishes for a month to see if he has the 'right attitude?' Complete and utter mindless exploitation. The only way you need to test a guy is to give him the course and toss his ass in an airplane and let him drive it. This sure as hell ain't brain surgery, its pulling knobs in a light aircraft.

Work the ramp if you must, but you should be flying every freight haul, empty leg, positioning flight and your lazy-ass CP should be taking you out after work and doing circuits with you. If this is not happening, leave. The industry will not be this hot forever (what's the price of fuel this week?) so get flying or bugger off and let 'thecaptain' use his superior attitude towards work by letting him load his own plane. Oh yeah, 'thecaptain' should be showing you how to load and fuel his plane.

Gawd, no wonder we develop such a sh*tty attitude and bail right after training or jump to the next biggest aircraft if this is how we are trained. We are taught all about exploitation in our first jobs!

Wasaya?

[Chickaddd]

There are more politics at Wasaya than most third world countries! It's not how well you suck up....it's who you suck up to.

So... does that mean they finally did away with the "bend over and grab your ankles"?

[thecaptain]

"The Captain"... is this the same guy that posted in pretty much the same thread last year with the same message as "captain suck it"?

Your point of view as distasteful as it is only goes to show to everyone out there how things are. That work hard and you will see a plane in a few months is a load of crap. I worked my ass off there and never complained about the company. I did all the jobs that everyone weaseled themselves out of. I stayed there 14 hours a day 7 days a week. I worked my ass off there and harder then most that were there.

...

A little blue piece of paper is not a license to bust your ass for freight.

As for the Captain suck it thing... lol, nope not I. Sorry.

I don't believe Wasaya advertises work the ramp and you'll see a plane in a few months. Most new guys I've spoken too have been told 6-12 months. A few, being 2, is certainly achievable but highly unlikely. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

I agree, that piece of paper we have is not a ticket to load planes, but one can't honestly expect to walk into a chief pilots office and say.. "Look at me!! Right Seat, right now!" I'm not saying that's your take on it but it seems to be as of late many folks seems so shocked to find out there's more to flying a plane then adjusting your Ray Bans and smiling a big toothy white smile to yourself as you start up your plane. Whatever plane it may be. Anyway, again, sorry your experience here was fraught with bs.

[thecaptain]

The only way you need to test a guy is to give him the course and toss his ass in an airplane and let him drive it. This sure as hell ain't brain surgery, its pulling knobs in a light aircraft.

I think there is a little more to flying as a professional then just passing a course. But who knows, I am as you said a certified retard *drool...* Graduated top of my class too! Have a good one Xs.

[Chaffey]

Wow, I was one of the ones that left Wasaya recently. Im not going to hide. Im Kyle.. now here we go.
I left wasaya, I didnt MIND it, I tried to learn new things all the time and made hard work into a "game". Like tetris while stacking the caravan. I left to finish my instructor rating and get a flying job. I didnt want a ramp job anymore, so I quit in search of a flying job. but the captain has a point. There were people who did work poorly, there was people who worked well. I know I wasnt the hardest worker, but I wasnt the worst either.

To me, wasaya was ok... I could never get a good answer from anyone how I was doing. Sometimes I'd get answers that started as a question. Some pilots had tempers, some pilots are your best friends. Im new to this industry, but I know.. the grass isnt always greener on the other side of WASAYA. I know I've worked for other companies that are worse and treat the rampies worse than wasaya does.

I did quit, but I had enough of YPL all together. Crappy food, Gas that is $1.47 !!! ,nothing to do, 3 hour drive to anywhere, and NO SINGLE GIRLS. and internet that is $50/month that only goes 25kbps.

oh well, at least there was an LCBO

[Chaffey]

well said xsbank...but others have points too.. but I like what you wrote.. have wannabe's fly the cargo legs, empty legs. Make it somewhat enjoyable. No pilot wants to sit on the ground and watch OTHERS fly.

[Cat Driver]

I think there is a little more to flying as a professional then just passing a course.

That is true, but working the ramp is not where you learn the things you need to learn to become a good safe pilot.

But who knows, I am as you said a certified retard *drool...* Graduated top of my class too!

Top of your class huh? That may or may not be significant with regard to your abilities as a pilot.

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that about 5% of pilots are exceptional and their skills are part of their DNA, the rest lie somewhere between good to frightening.