Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

[fl80]

Let me start my admitting that I have limited aviation experience and only a little of that was as a glider instructor many years ago, so feel free to discount my comments accordingly.

I’ve asked Cat very few questions and I’ve appreciated his sharing his thoughts with me, a total unknown, each time.

While I know only a little of all that can be learned about the aviation world, I can say that I know a bit more about the world of teaching and learning. It’s naive to believe that there is but one way to teach and one way to learn. Each of us have our preferences, there is no one size fits all. The trick is to find what works in each and every individual case. But preferences are just that, preferences, they are not absolutes, we can all learn from each other. And indeed it is the learner who must be responsible for the learning.

I’ve read many of Cat’s posts and I could likely put a fancy name on the instructional method employed in many of his posts but there is no point in putting a name on it. Only in recognizing that it will work really well for those willing to engage in the process and less so for those who choose not to engage. But it is the learner’s choice.

I’ve appreciated having the opportunity to learn from Cat, that’s been my choice. It saddens me that there are those who would prefer to see that choice eliminated. This doesn’t need to be a matter of who has the right method and who uses the wrong method, but rather of can we all learn from each other. I think we can, but I could be wrong.

Again Cat, from a simple PPL, thanks for your efforts.

[xsbank]

There is a difference between the job of flying and the art of flying - anyone can show any average human how to get an airplane up in the air, drive it around and return it to the earth. Usually, most of these pilots can even do it safely.

The art of flying is when you perform a maneuvre which your passengers are probably unaware has occurred, but you have a grin on your face that won't quit until you tell someone about it. To get to the art part, you need a superior instructor.

Cat, if I didn't know you have the thickest skin this side of Hillary Clinton, I would swear you sound a bit miffed? Naaa, I must be mistaken. Not possible.

Dorkus non carborundum.

[Cat Driver]

xsbank sure I have a think skin, but there comes a time when one just has to decide when the effort is not worth the constant bitching from the gallery that are free to say anything they wish with no fear of anyone knowing who they really are...fu.k I could be at the airport tomorrow talking as friendly as hell to someone who had just ripped me a new as.hole here about something I had posted and I wouldn't have a clue who I was talking to.

There should be a forum that only posters who are willing to post under their real names can use for giving advice to people who have questions about flying.

At least then when someone disagrees with you and bitches about what you said you will at least know who it is.

[200hr Wonder]

There is no one used it! http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewforum.php?f=71

[petpad]

.

[mcrit]

Cat.....you brought this on yourself....deal with it.

[Cat Driver]

Yeah, damn internet ...imagine a blog where people are free to say anything they wish... yuk

Yup petpad, I got to thinking that it was kind of senseless trying to communicate with people like you who can hit and run without fear of anyone knowing who you are.

However you are correct it is the internet and it is the perfect place for people to say anything they want without having to worry about anyone actually knowing who they are.......I think it used to be called cowardice?

mcrit, if you have anything to say to me give me a call so I can at least know who I'm fencing with, or is that not your style?

[phantom]

I find it a shame that people who read this forum don't get to benefit from Cat's experience and knowledge as it is usually hidden within a pile of crap he spews up in his posts. I did go back and re-read a lot of his old posts, and no doubt he offers great advice, but you have to dig deep to find it between all the layers of poop. There is a lot of instructor bashing going on in his posts... clearly stemming from his frustrations the regulator in his past. I lost respect when he couldn't even hold a coversation with TC Guy, who I found to be a very level headed individual and tried his damned best to have meaningful dialogue with Cat. For the record I have worked closely with Mcrit, and he happens to be on the best instructors I have ever come across. If Cat would change his poor attitude and outlook, we'd all benefit from what he can offer us.

[Cat Driver]

Look on the bright side phantom, when my negatives out weigh my positives you are all much better off not having me giving you advice.

There is no doubt that the industry is well served by the instructor pool that is now working in the teaching sector, every time I get involved it turns into

but you have to dig deep to find it between all the layers of poop.

If Cat would change his poor attitude and outlook, we'd all benefit from what he can offer us.

That is detrimental to the learning process the last thing a student needs is someone with a poor attitude and outlook so you should be happy as a clam that a some of the Canadian instructors and me don't really get along....before you take this the wrong way you must clearly understand I am so far removed from the Canadian flight instructor world that I should have quit posting in this forum before it got to this stage.

And another plus that this may bring with me out of the mix here after this thread runs its self out which will be soon, TC Guy can come back and be among admirers who won't insult him.

In that this thread is mostly about my poor attitude I am quite safe in answering any post I see fit to answer.....but my first comment will remain unchanged.

This was my answer to Big Pistons Forever:

You are correct, I should not post anything regarding teaching flying on this forum....however now that you have made it clear where you stand may I respond to your post just this once.....

......Then I promise to never again make any direct comments on Avcanada that would or could be taken as criticism of all you Canadian flight instructors.

[Meecka]

it takes a mechanic 2080 hours of work to become certified to the point where he can teach other mechanics who can then be certified... a fricken mechanic..

Um... Boosted...

By all means, if you really think so poorly of "mechanics" pick up some tools and rig an FCU yourself.. I'd be happy to have a professional do it for me.

[bose]

if i had dollar for all the time mr cat driver says he will not talk in the flight training forum maybe i could be very rich and pay my own training better....i dont think cat driver will ever stop posting in avcanada flight training even though he say every time he will not post any more information

[Cat Driver]

bose, I'll make you a promise.

If I ever post in the flight training forum again once this thread is finished I will quit posting in the rest of Avcanada, which I imagine would make a lot of the members here happy as hell.

Naw bose once I quit posting in this forum the quality of information will just leap up driven by all those nice posters who really do know how to communicate.

There you go bose.....this part of Avcanada is Cat Driver free from now on....this must be a red letter day for a lot here.

[xsbank]

Hey ., the stats are 1160 views of this topic and about 10 negative posts. The dorks are irrelevant - keep doing your thing and ignore the dull annoying background noise. The nitwits have no idea how dull this site would be without the curmudgeons like you, Doc, Hedley ....and me!

[Cat Driver]

xsbank, I don't pay any attention to the so called dorks who are easy to identify.

Where I went wrong was getting on the wrong side of a few flight instructors who post here.

I am quite willing to argue my methods of instructing and also learn from others. However here in cyber land I made the mistake of going one on one with a couple of regulars here and it is now a no win for me because I really have no idea of who they really are....and don't give a fu.k either, this is a small sandbox in the grand scheme of aviation and the mindset in this sector of aviation here in Canada is foreign to me for the simple reason I can not relate to what they believe is the correct way to teach flying....the so called laws of learning as TC used to call them are interesting ideas to read and maybe take into consideration, however teaching ab-inition flying does not require a doctorate in psychiatry, all you really need is common sense and the ability to demonstrate things and instill confidence in the student to mimic what you have just demonstrated....then know when they have it and move on to the next lesson.

Anyhow there is no further incentive for me to waste my time making enemies here in this group for the simple reason it is non productive on both sides.

What this gang needs is someone like TC Guy who understands what they need and manages to give them advice they understand and appreciate...not an old burn out like me who just pisses them off.

[Wacko]

You see Cat... you see! If only you saw that before!

I can't understand why you would need someones identity to prove a point though Cat... Do you believe people are giving you a hard time because they know you as . or because Cat Driver (as the topic states) has posted things that have offended others? *shrug*



Speaking of TC Guy... he was a lot more active a while ago... where'd he go? Did you scare him off Cat

[Cat Driver]

Do you believe people are giving you a hard time because they know you as .

It would be highly unlikely that any flight instructors on this forum would know me personally seeing as the last time I was anywhere near a flight school in Canada was 17 years ago when I sold my school and the last time I flew commercially in Canada was 1995.

Regardless of the reason or reasons for my difficulties with the instructor group it really has no effect on my life one way or the other.

One of these days I am going to finish my Cub and do some float plane instructing with it....everything except the float plane rating that is.

[TC Aviator]

Hey Guys, . has been a great contributor to this forum with his straight-forward no BS approach to training. I have also spent many years working in the "real" world and find that today's "puppy-mill" flight schools seriously fall short of preparing new CPL pilots for work in this industry. The instructors coming out of those mills too often create a situation where the blind are leading the blind and are afforded little mentoring and supervision.

As for a TC review of flight training, I partially agree with Clunkdriver in that the bureaucracy will tend to bend over when encountering resistance to change from the "Alphabet Groups". The result would then likely be another lowering of standards and adherance to the flying club culture prevelent in many flight training venues.

[mcrit]

Cat, you know where I am and you know my number. So feel free to give me a call or drop by in person.

Someone made the comment that it takes an AME ~2000 hrs of training before he is allowed to teach other AMEs. I'm going to go out on a limb here and venture that, in my opinion, this may be so because fixing A/C is harder than flying them.

[200hr Wonder]

Cat, you know where I am and you know my number. So feel free to give me a call or drop by in person.

Someone made the comment that it takes an AME ~2000 hrs of training before he is allowed to teach other AMEs. I'm going to go out on a limb here and venture that, in my opinion, this may be so because fixing A/C is harder than flying them.

Well any idiot can take a part off, put on a new one and call it done. The real skill lies in the troubleshooting. Same with piloting, any idiot can take off go somewhere and land again, the real skill lies in problem solving and decision making. So no I don't think that fixing a plane is any easier or harder than flying them.

[BoostedNihilist]

Someone made the comment that it takes an AME ~2000 hrs of training before he is allowed to teach other AMEs. I'm going to go out on a limb here and venture that, in my opinion, this may be so because fixing A/C is harder than flying them.

I don't disagree..

I was speaking in terms of an automotive mechanic

I believe that generally speaking people think pilots are more qualified than mechanics (if you didn't know better)

I have great respect for AME's and Mechanics BTW

[mcrit]

Hey 200, I see where you are coming from when you say that the skill lies in the trouble shooting, and I agree. I would submit that there is a lot more to trouble shooting an engine than there is to trouble shooting an approach. I'm just going on personal experience. I've never found flying too difficult, but fixing engines sometimes still leaves me scratching my head, and I'm no ludite (I've built robots from scratch, as in machined the parts from raw metal and designed/etched/soldered the electronics) Whenever I get within 10 feet of an engine with a wrench, said engine starts to develop an attitude. All I can say is that I tip my hat to AMEs.

[Stick-Shaker]

I came from an instructor background, and found myself in the bush. To be honest I have come across a few bush drivers that have tried to kill me, and some that were far better pilots than I. Former instructors were all mainly well organized and disciplined, they can speak on the radio in an IFR environment, and fly the dials well.

Both backgrounds bring something to the table, but I think flying the bush can be more "fun" and something that you will always look back on with great memories.

[North Shore]

If . is such a crappy instructor compared to the
gods here, why does he earn 10x as much for his
instruction as the gods?

If my info is correct, Cat is instructing people how to fly Cansos. There are a few reasons, mostly related to supply and demand, for that being a much more lucrative gig (perhaps even 10x as much) than some poor 350hr guy flogging around the circuit in the right seat of a 152. If the world was beating a path to Cat's door to ask him to teach ab-initio for $200/hr istructor fee, then the financial argument makes sense; if not, it's simply a willy-waving red herring.

the so called laws of learning as TC used to call them are interesting ideas to read and maybe take into consideration, however teaching ab-inition flying does not require a doctorate in psychiatry, all you really need is common sense and the ability to demonstrate things and instill confidence in the student to mimic what you have just demonstrated....then know when they have it and move on to the next lesson.

Actually, Cat, the psychobabble that you are decrying is simply the theory behind what makes a good instructor. I would suspect that, if you (Cat) are instructing people successfully, then you are applying those laws without even knowing it. However, I'd further suspect that is because you've had many years of life experience to bring to bear on the subject. If I were in my early 20's (is that a fair assumption of the average age of Canadian flight instructors?), I might not have that experience - and thus have to be taught it. A fair analogy, I think, is Orville and Wilbur (not trying to draw any age parallels here ) I'm sure that they had no idea about the physics equations behind the Flyer - but it worked! People came along later, filled in all of the theory that O&W already knew intuitively, and used that theory to deepen everyone's understanding of the subject.

The other thing about how Flight Instruction is now handled and taught, is that you need some sort of system for grading the instructor candidates, and making sure that each one is up to the required standard. Thus the basics of the learning factors, etc.. If you didn't have that system, then how would you ensure a consistent standard? ( I don't really want to open the can of worms here of how high/low that standard is set!)

Not trying to be critical, or pick sides here...just a few observations.

[Cat Driver]

Thanks for pointing all that stuff out to me North Shore, I had no idea that was the way it works......you see when I was an instructor we didn't have any standards and our instructors ratings were just handed out to us with no need to know anything about how to teach.

Same when I owned a flying school, I had no idea about all that stuff because all I had to do was check that my employees had their instructors ratings and that guaranteed they had been trained to meet the standard.

If my info is correct, Cat is instructing people how to fly Cansos. There are a few reasons, mostly related to supply and demand, for that being a much more lucrative gig

By the way I do teach in more than Canso's as you Canadians call a Catalina.

When I do other types of flying my rate usually is higher....then again most of my flying is in the specialized field of aviation.

If the world was beating a path to Cat's door to ask him to teach ab-initio for $200/hr istructor fee, then the financial argument makes sense; if not, it's simply a willy-waving red herring.

willy-waving huh? want to know something, I truly don't give a fu.k what you think for the simple reason you are not the one paying me.

Here is some free advice, if you want to earn decent money you find a niche area of flying that pays top dollar, I find the best paying job out there is flying for the movie industry.

So there you go, pick up the phone and tell them you want to fly for them.

Nothing to it.

[sez]

looks like this thread will be on first page for a very very long time....