Info on Vancouver Island Plane crash

[fogghorn]

Pasco was fully within their rights to initiate their own search, but on a 20 minute flight that set out at 7am, authorities should have been notified and a formal search in progress by 08:30 local time or thereabouts. That is all I have to say on the matter.

[matrix]

Pasco was fully within their rights to initiate their own search, but on a 20 minute flight that set out at 7am, authorities should have been notified and a formal search in progress by 08:30 local time or thereabouts. That is all I have to say on the matter.

Totally agree. From my experience, it's best to get the professionals involved as soon as possible. At the latest, an hour after the last known ETA is when Victoria should have been called.

Nice to hear about the survivors.

My condolences to the families of the victims.

[Widow]

I've been biting my tongue here (though not for A-Channel news), I'm glad someone else said it first. If there is one thing that SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEARNED from the crash of C-GAQW, it is that this should not be an option.

2.2 Request for Search and Rescue Assistance
As soon as information is received that an aircraft is overdue, operators or owners should immediately alert the nearest RCC or any ATS unit, giving all known details. The alerting call should not be delayed until after a small scale private search. Such a delay could deprive those in need of urgent assistance at a time when it is most needed.

TC AIM

[ALF]

I worked for Pasco and left in December. Great company. All the best to the families involved, Seaspan, and Pasco. I have not yet heard who was driving but all the "Goose Guys" are great pilot's with tonnes of coast time. Does anyone know what the registration was?

[orbit]

Apparantly the pilot was 36 year old Simon Lawrence according to the news....

As for the 'Widow' post...I can empathize with your situation and I do agree that it is required and urgent that Rescue be called ASAP when aircraft is overdue,,,for as a Occupational 1st Aid attendant there is a thing called a 'golden hour' that means basically the time where MOST survival rates in trauma situation are survived if the patient is at a medical facility within the hour .(If aircraft left on a 30 minute trip at 07:00 am; Rescue should have been called not later that 07:30 I'm asumming they have flight following and arrival called in)
So this is why transport states in their AIP to contact the profesionals(RESCUE) for assistance as they also have I trust medics on board.
In this case it appears PASCO did their best and the survival rate would have not been altered with anyone else had rescue been there sooner;
I'm saying this as from what I hear .... so I can be wrong...I wasn't there !
So suggesting that it is no time to argue on action but to move on and implement these actions for next time......as things aren't cut and dry when aircraft goes missing as the pilot may have taken the long route and not able to contact base so really I would be hard on PASCO; they did their best I feel all things being said and done.

[rigpiggy]

Bloody Journo's, and know nothing's should STFU
B.C. plane crashed and burned: survivor
Last Updated: Monday, August 4, 2008 | 7:00 PM ET Comments47Recommend74
CBC News

A fire broke out aboard a plane after it crashed Sunday on northern Vancouver Island. The pilot and four of six passengers were killed, a survivor said Monday.
Bob Pomponio and another survivor, who remains unnamed, were rescued hours after search teams received text messages Pomponio sent to a friend with the whereabouts of the crash site.Bob Pomponio and another survivor, who remains unnamed, were rescued hours after search teams received text messages Pomponio sent to a friend with the whereabouts of the crash site. (Bob Pomponio/Canadian Press)

Bob Pomponio was one of the passengers who survived the crash of the chartered Pacific Coastal Airlines' Grumman Goose amphibious aircraft , which went down shortly after taking off from Port Hardy, B.C., at about 7 a.m. PT Sunday.

His brother-in-law, Martin Young, told reporters Monday that Pomponio suffered soft-tissue injuries in the crash.

Police said they believe the plane's engine may be at fault in the crash.

"The plane is believed to have gone down due to a stall," said Const. Sarah Beckett of the Port McNeill RCMP.

"We can't confirm that at this time or confirm what caused the stall."

Transportation Safety Board spokesman Bill Yearwood confirmed the plane had burned.

"There was a post-crash fire," Yearwood said. "After it collided with the trees, there was a fire — a small fire that erupted into a larger one."

It had been reported earlier that the fire had preceded the crash.

The plane's electronic transmission locator was not working. Pomponio and the other survivor, who remains unnamed, were rescued hours after search teams received text messages Pomponio sent to a friend with the whereabouts of the crash site.

The friend relayed the information to rescue crews, but it took several hours for them to find the site of the crash, a hillside dense with foliage. Pomponio said he had to climb a hill to get a signal.

The plane went down shortly after taking off from Port Hardy, B.C., bound for a logging camp on Chamiss Bay.The plane went down shortly after taking off from Port Hardy, B.C., bound for a logging camp on Chamiss Bay. He added he wasn't thrilled with his wireless provider, Telus, for sending him two promotional text messages while he was trying to get help.

Beckett said the survivors were able to get out before a major explosion and a few minor explosions occurred.

Seaspan International released a statement Monday confirming that four of its employees died in the crash.

"We offer our deepest sympathies to the families and will be working directly with them and the two Seaspan survivors to provide grief and trauma counselling," it read.

The Seaspan employees were travelling to Chamiss to load logs on to barges for transport.

"This is the worst tragedy in the history of the company," Seaspan CEO Steve Frasher told the Victoria Times-Colonist on Monday. He said the community of log-loaders is "like a brotherhood," and his employees are struggling with the "devastating" news.

Frasher said RCMP notified the victims' and survivors' families at 1:30 a.m.

Officials have not released the names of any of the deceased.
Little left of wreckage

Mike Aldersey, a pilot with West Coast Helicopters who flew over the site of the crash on Monday, told CBC News it was amazing anyone survived.

Aldersey said most of the plane and the huge trees around it burned, leaving only a part of the plane's tail visible.

Aldersey said he dropped log-fallers and their tools about an hour's hike from the site. They will clear an area near the site and construct a helicopter landing pad so investigators from the Transportation Safety Board can get to the area to begin their work.

Lt.-Cmdr. Gerry Pash of the Victoria Joint Rescue Co-ordination Centre said the survivor's cellphone could be credited for bringing the rescue crews to the crash location.

"It was less efficient than having the plane's electronic transmission locator working but more efficient than not having any information," he said.

"This is one of those searches that could have gone on for days had we not had the cellphone's stuff."

[North Shore]

Brutal. My condolences to the families and airline.

[small penguin]

I offer sympathies to those lost, and speedy recovery to those who remain.

However I have one burning question:

The ELT failed! (according to the news) Why? Was it in working order? Was it a 406? Im hoping the answer to these are a 'yes', and that TC wakes the hell up on this.

Maybe something bad has happened to attempt to force something good? Had no cellphone signal been sent out, you have to wonder about the outcome.

[sky's the limit]

The ELT failed! (according to the news) Why? Was it in working order? Was it a 406? Im hoping the answer to these are a 'yes', and that TC wakes the hell up on this.

Maybe something bad has happened to attempt to force something good? Had no cellphone signal been sent out, you have to wonder about the outcome.

Are there issues with the 406? I'm out of the loop on that.

Again, deepest condolences to all. I fly Pasco on a very regular basis, and am sorry to hear about this loss.

stl

[small penguin]

STL - have you kept up with the COPA articles regarding the 406?

I guess the "issues" you could refer to are briefly: (I dont want to threadjack)
1) failure to activate if they dont survive the crash, as in this case
2) cost of installation, equipment
3) lack of acceptable alternatives such as SPOT, which would have saved people had a cellphone signal not gotten out


But the biggest one again, is that the 406 over current 121 does not increase your chances of survival or detection at all, if the unit is destroyed, submerged, or burned before the signal gets out (406 takes 60 seconds to charge as far as I read).

Mostly, we just want TC to accept not just the 406, but also alternatives such as SPOT.

/end threadjack

[CD]

Bit more on this thread:

406 ELT's

I also think it will be interesting to know how the aircraft was equipped and more on the response...

[wrench turner]

I've worked with Simon before up in Vanderhoof he was a great guy, pilot and engineer who loved life and he will be missed by all who knew him.

RIP Simon
vince

[quicksilver]

Simon is a great guy, this is a huge lose. One of the nicest guys I've had the pleasure of meeting.

Pasco was fully within their rights to initiate their own search, but on a 20 minute flight that set out at 7am, authorities should have been notified and a formal search in progress by 08:30 local time or thereabouts. That is all I have to say on the matter.

Not the time or place to be start something with a post like this. It might have been a 20 minute flight but I believe it wasn't due back at base until almost 10am. So search and rescue was notified before the plane was due back in Hardy. Don't speculate, and if you have any other comments on this fogghorn, then PM me and leave it at that.

QS

[Spokes]

Agreed. Nor is it a place to whine about 406 ELT's

[wrench turner]

excellent point

[Captain 152]

I agree, but I will use this thread to complain about the media response. According to today's paper an "engine stall" caused the crash... WTF?? Makes you realize that the crap you read in the papers about something you DON'T know much about is not worth anything either. Just like any other accident, I'm sure it was a sequence of unfortunate events that didn't get broken but of course the papers just publish any garbage that will sell.

[Flying Nutcracker]

agree, but I will use this thread to complain about the media response. According to today's paper an "engine stall" caused the crash... WTF?? Makes you realize that the crap you read in the papers about something you DON'T know much about is not worth anything either. Just like any other accident, I'm sure it was a sequence of unfortunate events that didn't get broken but of course the papers just publish any garbage that will sell.

And this is exactly why we should keep our mouth shut until the pro's at TSB has done their investigation! Or else we're just as guilty as the media!

FN

[Captain 152]

Done. I don't claim to know what happened. Just find it amazing that some dude who works at the sun figured it out before the TSB even showed up. He should be used as an expert in their investigation as he obviously has amazing powers

[Unusual Attitude]

There is a nice little tribute to Simon at DHC-2.com http://www.dhc-2.com/current_cover_page.htm .

[sarg]

Done. I don't claim to know what happened. Just find it amazing that some dude who works at the sun figured it out before the TSB even showed up. He should be used as an expert in their investigation as he obviously has amazing powers

Not wanting to be one that protects the press, but the newspaper article that I read was quoting an RCMP officer as to the cause. Said officer should know or be counseled to leave speculation as to cause to the experts.

My condolences to all the families.

[Walker]

Condolences......

As I recall (and it has been some time) the G-21 is unable to maintain altitude with one engine correct?

[Jeremy]

Simon was a great man. A sad day indeed. My condolences to all that had the pleasure of knowing him.

[_dwj_]

Condolences......

As I recall (and it has been some time) the G-21 is unable to maintain altitude with one engine correct?

So what is the point of the plane? And why would anyone fly passengers in one? You have all the disadvantages of having two engines with none of the benefits...

[Dog]

A decent article... finally

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/2008 ... crash.html

[Widow]

1.14.2 Aircraft Single-Engine Performance and Handling
The aircraft was designed in accordance with 1937 certification standards, and those standards were not as stringent as those for contemporary aircraft.

Experienced pilots familiar with the aircraft report that it has limited performance and poor handling qualities during single-engine operations. When the aircraft is loaded to a weight near that of the occurrence aircraft, single-engine performance does not permit sustained level flight.

In particular, the single-engine minimum control speed (Vmca) on the G21A is approximately 10 to 15 knots less than the normal two-engine climb speed. When one engine becomes inoperative, aircraft drag will cause the airspeed to decrease rapidly. If the speed decreases to a value less than Vmca, there will be a resulting loss of directional control.

Because of the aircraft's reportedly poor handling qualities during an engine failure, immediate action is required (i.e. lowering the nose of the aircraft) to maintain the airspeed above Vmca. As such, a significant loss of altitude may result.

Should the airspeed decrease below Vmca, the preferred action in the event of an engine failure during the initial climb is to reduce power on the operating engine and land straight ahead.

Individual G21A aircraft may also exhibit somewhat different flight performance and handling characteristics, likely due to the different and numerous rigging adjustments over the life of the aircraft.

TSB Air Report A93P0249