HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! This made my day!

[Four1oh]

Strega, just wondering, since you're such an expert on wages. What do you fly, for what type of company, for how much?

[F,D and H]

I just wanted to set the record straight about my above post...I do not believe that the wage is high enough. I was only stating that it was above the industry average, in fact one of the best in the industry compared to other similar positions. This is also a job that you can get in the first few years of your career. Most guys I know in this position don't have kids. Again most guys in this position will be making 60-80K less than two years later. Position.

Unless you're working for for coughCMAcoughJazzcough

[F,D and H]

Furthermore, I or any one of us could go up to Fort Mac and slave away in beautifull Northern Alberta in January with the gangstas and crazies and make tons of money but I prefer doing fukall for a living AND you know what I made fukall for a few years. Now I do fukall for a living and make good money doing it and five years from now I plan on doing even less and make making even beter money.

Sitting in the right seat of a Jetstream isn't rocket surgery or brain science, it's a place to learn.

Pay should be better, I totally agree. But you can't compare it with working up in the camps or hard labour.

[Lost Lake]

I don't get this wheeled 703/04 industry. I was happy bobbing around in a float plane for 15 years. I am married and like to golf. Neither of those goes well with seasonal flying. I have, for the most part, worked for good operators who respected my skills and abilities, and have paid me accordingly. A twelve hr work day was abnormal and would almost invariably be rewarded with a cold beer and a pat on the back. Season end bonus for not hurtin the plane, decent tips. This is in an industry that has seen the tourist dollar shrink 50%, fuel and operating expenses grow, reduced American tourists due to the dollar, the Michigan economy, and 9/11. Prices have gone up very little since. Expenses to market the company throuhg sports shows, etc. And still, $6,000 plus / mon for 6 mon, UI for 6 months ($10K) a little cash work and voila...$55 - $60K+ per year. Forgot to include the free $4,000 a week fishing and or hunting included. This all with a CPL.

Hey, the King Air business( a generic term for all the 8,000 - 12,500 lb planes)business is booming. Medevacs (gov't payed) small commuters (some native owned and financed) are all dying for pilots with time. Piss away $10,000, get a MIFR, get your ATPL, and you can make lots of money. Fuel prices have gone up, the gov't is still subsidising the business either through flying gov't people around or paying the medevac. The economy is well supported.

Now I am treated no better than a trained monkey. If I didn't work 14 hr day, the boss is pissed. I make half the wage. 6 - 8 mon upgrade to cptn?? Did we tell you that? Gee not in writing. WTF. Lies, bs promises, bonds, loans, wannabes (never heard the term in floats). This part of the aviation industry is a disgrace. I've said it before, companies lie to pilots, pilots lie to business. (not everyone, before some people get all excited). Either the employers don't know how to price themselves properly to make a decent prifit, or they are making huge profits at someone's expense. Hey we can't charge anymore, people will stop flying.

Yeh right. People will start driving from Vancouver to Toronto. People on reserves will walk from Pickle Lake to Sandy lake. Shit, Vancouver to Sudbury $385 one way. I can't drive from Sudbury to Toronto and return on that. What percentage of operating costs are wages.
Economics is simply supply and demand. Over supply of pilots who will do anything the employer demands!!

Get me through the next 8 months. If I can't find a decent company by then, you guys can have your industry. I just want to fly, be respected and appreciated for taking care of the $multi-million plane, make a wage representative of my skills and responsibilities and be respected. I have no answers, no suggestions, just questions. Is the blame on the employer for under paying the pilot or the pilot for paying to fly.

Minimum wage (a toilet cleaner, a burger flipper, a retail clerk) presently earns $17K per yr. Ont gov't thinks it should be $20K. No skill, no accountability, no responsibility. What does a school teacher, starting out make.

I guess it's true, you can take the pilot out of the bush, but you can't taske the bush out of the pilot.
.
Any answers???

[Flying Nutcracker]

Drinking heavily between shifts...???

And I'll change the Miller to a Keith's!

[xsbank]

The point is, a beginner in the right seat, let's give him enough hours to be competent so we can eliminate that part, gets $10/hr. A senior FO gets $20/hr. What's the difference? In terms of productivity, the beginner is 'producing' the same as the senior guy. In fact, because he has only been there long enough to do his initial, he is actually the best money-maker in the company because he allows full revenue to be earned and he is the smallest overhead!

This is not about knowledge or experience but simply about profits. Don't ever forget that.

[Tim]

i feel like this post - and the recnet ones with similar themes - are like heroine...none of us want to be heroine addicts but we all keep coming back to read them because were addicted to bitching and telling other people they're wrong. in my opinion (despite all the 'expert' advice, it's all jus opinions) xsbank said it right, it's all about profit. not a lot of industries pay inexperienced people a lot of money. if we compared to kind of money we would like, to what a scientist - for example - might make, that person would need at the least 4 years of school to get a degree, probably some poorly paid co-op, maybe a research assistant position after that, then back for a masters before finally hoping for an ok job somewhere. another few years of experience would likely be required before something really well paying came along - just an example. the only difference between that person and the low time guys looking for jobs is desperation to fly.

now, on another train of thought, maybe it's a bit of a self-fullfilling proficy (sp?) as well. companies figure we just wanna use them as a stepping stone, so they treat us like shit. we get treated like shit so we ditch as soon as possible for bigger and better things. there are some companies out there that treat the pilots well and pay them well and those companies seem to hold onto people longer. Provincial Airlines comes to mind.

remove needle and enjoy.