atheist in Canada

[Invertago]

You're quoting wikipedia? Widow....

[. ._]

Yeah, I'm an atheist. I have a couple of really good buddies that are total bible thumpers. I don't question their beliefs, and they don't question mine. The thing is that they LIVE their religion- which is really admirable. I wouldn't be friends with them if they were hypocrites. And they're cool. So that helps.

I believe we should all get along, because life is short, and there's lots of good times to be had. Fighting and disagreement gets in the way of that.

-istp

[BoostedNihilist]

I prefer nihilism myself.

[BibleMonkey]

I am a US citizen and recent resident of Canada, somewhat right leaning on monetary issues, free handouts, not a bible thumper and believe in evolution. I noted that during the US elections there was more negative comments on people or parties that had faith, from this forum, than I would have expected. While attending our small, local church the other day, the minister stated that 15-17% of Canadians attend church, which is about half of that in the US. The low number really surprised me and is what brought me too this question from you fellow aviators. Are most Canadians apathtic about attending church or are they truly atheist? Just curious.

While attending our small, local church the other day, the minister stated that 15-17% of Canadians attend church, which is about half of that in the US.

Your Minister is wrong, in one sense. There is no significant or large difference between Canada and the United States in the percentage of the population that are Christian ; and real ( as opposed to reported ) Church attendance figures are more similar than different .

What he may be circling or obliquely referencing in that statement is the polling phenomena known as social desirability bias -from which the erroneous conclusion drawn is that the ratio of Christians to non Christians in the United States is higher than in Canada. It's slightly higher in reality ( and grossly higher in self-reported polls due to social desirability bias; he gap between what they do and what they say they do ) but not statistically meaningful .

Interestingly, Church attendance is dropping at the same rate in both countries-almost 1% a year, ten percent a decade. Fastest growing religion in both countries is Wicca.

[BoostedNihilist]

social desirability bias? got statistics to back that up or is this pie in the sky take your word for it stuff?

[BibleMonkey]

You're quoting wikipedia? Widow....

She's absolutely right. It is an argument in metaphysics, with a sloppy semantic base-hence it can never get off the ground.

And you can't reason a person out of ( or into, for that matter) a position that they haven't used reason to arrive at.

[BibleMonkey]

social desirability bias? got statistics to back that up or is this pie in the sky take your word for it stuff?

It's pie in the sky. All of my posts are works of fiction-I'm hoping for a movie deal some day.



==============

*edited because my Butler screwed up typing when I was dictating this post, that bastard is starting to get really sloppy.....*
http://books.google.ca/books?id=ZIqQQyh ... &ct=result

[BoostedNihilist]

t's pie in the sky. All of my posts are works of fiction-I'm hoping for a movie deal some day.

To me it's like asking iran to prove they're not developing a nuclear weapon... it's impossible to prove a negative and the statistics which social desirability bias are based on are subject to bias themselves so I have a hard time buying it as a legit argument.

[BibleMonkey]

t's pie in the sky. All of my posts are works of fiction-I'm hoping for a movie deal some day.

To me it's like asking iran to prove they're not developing a nuclear weapon... it's impossible to prove a negative and the statistics which social desirability bias are based on are subject to bias themselves so I have a hard time buying it as a legit argument.

Oh yeah-I hear you-don't disagree ( I don't think) -if what you are saying is that "you can't disprove a negative'). But if you count alla bodies in church, ( same percentage in U.S and Canada, more or less ) and count all the bodies that SAY they go to Church-( double in the U.S than in Canada) -then you can say that there's a social desirability bias -more easily measured in other ways-e.g percentage that SAY they tithe the Church x %-and count alla money...=more than half missing=social desirability bias.

Unless ...the Preachers stole it...and HE"S lying....dammit....never thought of that.....sunk my own arguement

[Driving Rain]

I'm an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac. I used to lay awake nights wondering if there was a dog.

[. ._]

That's a good one.

[ScudRunner]

I tend to fall on the side of Bill Mahers thinking in Religelus. I'm not an Atheist because that deals in absolutes that there is no god or whatever you believe in. Bottom line I don't know no one does,, just because only 17% of Canadians attend a church does not mean the rest are atheist, I know many pilots that pray alot ".. to God .. to god! get me out of this!!"

[Four1oh]

I believe in the Easter Bunny! At least he shows up! And he lays chocolate eggs! How can you NOT believe in something that lays chocolate eggs????
And, then there's the Tooth Fairy....I suppose you don't believe in the Tooth Fairy either?

The toothless fairy gave me the clap. Hard not to believe in her!

[Pratt]

Just plain agnostic here, none of the other hangups, yet anyways.

[767]

Athiest.

I only have one question to those who believe in god. The question is, how do you prove it in a COURT OF LAW that god exists? Please answer..

[Rockie]

Athiest.

I only have one question to those who believe in god. The question is, how do you prove it in a COURT OF LAW that god exists? Please answer..

It can't be proven. That's why it's called faith.

faith   /feɪθ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [feyth] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

[...]

Are most Canadians apathtic about attending church or are they truly atheist?

Neither.

Most Canadian are realists.


Webster's Dictionary

re·al·ist (rē'ə-lĭst) n.
One who is inclined to literal truth and pragmatism.
A practitioner of artistic or philosophic realism.


Urban Dictionary

re·al·ist (rē'ə-lĭst) n.

A person who's personal and political views transcend the petty right-wing left-wing mentality and understands how things really work in the world.

Right-wingers and Left-wingers may call a realist a Fascist but this is not true, a Realist purely understand that certain measures must be taken to prevent problems from occurs, usually going to the source.

As for the 3 major "Religions"...my humble opinion is...

Moses was high on desert 'payoty' when he told the newly freed Jews a burning bush was talking to him and giving him instructions on what to do next.

Jesus was the first pre-Beatle hippy which his main message to the masses was to "chill". But no one knew what refrigeration meant 2000 years ago...so the Romans (also known as the modern day Eyetalians) off'd him for having a vocabulary that consisted of more than "EH!!! OOOH....FOEGIT_ABOUT UT...WHAT YOU THINK YOU"RE BETTER THAN US??!!"

And the Prophet Muhammad would have been the perfect candidate for an anger management patient at the "special" wing of the "fun" hospital...or those that misinterpeted and twisted his teachings to promote viloence.

[ottawa,kan]

BibleMonkey postulates that church attendence in Canada and the US are about the same, but in the US more people CLAIM they go, but in Canada more people CLAIM they don't? That seems odd to me. I can see people claiming they do, but why would Canadians as a group claim they don't?
Someone else thinks that America tends to have more homogeneous pools of like minded folk than Canada does? Isn't Canada as a whole almost 100% white? I would think that the US would be way more diverse than Canada. Not my state of course, we're pretty whitebread here.

[Icebound]

...

I only have one question to those who believe in god. The question is, how do you prove it in a COURT OF LAW that god exists? Please answer..

This is not a statement about belief in God, BUT....

.... what does a COURT of LAW have to do with TRUTH or with FACT?


...

[v6g]

Atheist. I'm much too logical-thinking to believe in any imaginary creature.

Sometimes, I've felt that if I had to choose one then it'd probably be either Pagan or Budhism. Or the devil - since it's probably a better idea to make sure you're in his good books than anyone else's.

I can't think why there's a difference between Canada vs the States but I've noticed that in the more desolate McMansion housing estates in the US, the kind where everybody comes home from the office or Walmart and drives straight into their big double-garage and never meets their neighbours, they tend to have more churches - I think the church in those areas is the only way that people can have a sense of community. It's their only opportunity for a social life, in a way. Perhaps in Canada, people are less competitive & aggressive anyway so don't see the need to lock themselves away so much and get to know the folks living around them more.

[BibleMonkey]

BibleMonkey postulates that church attendence in Canada and the US are about the same, but in the US more people CLAIM they go, but in Canada more people CLAIM they don't?

BoostedNihilist asked me if I was making stuff up-so under my little joke, I put in a link in that ^ post to what I was referring to- Hadaway, Marler and Chaves discovered about the skew in self-reported church attendance vs real attendance, which they attribute to social desirability bias:



Of course, church attendance is only one portion of 'being a Christian" ; that is, if you google around you'll see the officially listed percentage of Christians in the U.S and the officially listed percentage of Christians in Canada is close to the same number.

Religion just isn't that 'big of a deal' in Canada as it is in the United States-I mean the U.S Constitution has a specific, oft cited ( and abused ) clause specifically dictating the separation of church and state-Canadas' Constitution doesn't-hence religion imbues the political and cultural process more in the States. The similar percentage of Canadas' Christians, I think, are less fervent than American Christians-e.g the religious beliefs of American political candidates are more important than the religious beliefs of political candidates north of the 49th parrallell-it just ( almost ) never comes up.

There was no "rise of the Religious right ( 1980's Jerry Fallwell)-that causes vote hungry American politicians to focus on ( arguably ) psuedo issues like gay marriage -or all politicians rushing back to washington to extend the life of that -whats-her-name- brain dead lady in Florida ....

Anyway, generally speaking-Religion is more politically important in the U.S than in Canada-it's not better, or worse-just different. As a guess, I'd say that might explain social desirability bias. dunno.

The separation of church and state is related to freedom of religion, but the two ideas differ.

We shouldn't think that countries with a state church ( neither Country does, obviously-although we just ignore the theoretical fact that it is technically illegal for a Roman Catholic to sit on the British throne, the titular [although hardly real] head of Canada ) do not necessarily have freedom of religion, nor should one infer that a country without a state church necessarily enjoys freedom of religion.

Religious freedom jurisprudence of the two countries is surprisingly convergent, notwithstanding the historical differences which formed the two countries-and caused this difference in perception of the relative importance of religion.

Someone else thinks that America tends to have more homogeneous pools of like minded folk than Canada does? Isn't Canada as a whole almost 100% white? I would think that the US would be way more diverse than Canada. Not my state of course, we're pretty whitebread here.

Both Canada and the U.S are growing about 2% a year-most of Americas growth is caused by Mom and Dad America making a little baby American ( higher birth rate than Canadas ) -most of Canada's growth ( same 2% ) is from immigration- so I think that by 2050 ( 2040-forget ) -Caucasians will be less than 50% of the Canadian population.

[ottawa,kan]

Actually if you take away immigration the United States isn't growing, it's shrinking, though a hell of a lot slower than most of Europe. The only growth is coming from migrants, mostly latino.

[square]

The only plausible argument for god is that somebody with a real fast processor created a computer-model of a universe and we are the video game.. which really, we're gonna soon be able to do.

And if that's true, we'll probably crash His Machine when we come up with a bunch of our own complex universes for His Machine to support. Truly a blue screen of death!

[BoostedNihilist]

BoostedNihilist asked me if I was making stuff up-so under my little joke, I put in a link in that ^ post to what I was referring to- Hadaway, Marler and Chaves discovered about the skew in self-reported church attendance vs real attendance, which they attribute to social desirability bias:

I read the link (before the second post)

I see the skew

I miss the causation