MEL's

[torquey401]

Sorry, I just don't understand this idea of having an MEL and still be able to fly with defects that are not listed in the MEL. It was driven into my head that the MEL document is "absolute" and that if something is not in there, you are not supposed to fly - period.
Here are two scenarios.
1) It's discovered that the control locks for the aircraft are missing. They are not in the MEL. Can the aircraft fly?
2) It's discovered that the maintenance portion of an integrated EFIS system is unservicable and cannot be accessed. Everything else within the system is operational. It is not in the MEL. Can the aircraft fly?

[29 ford]

Sure, if I was the mechanic they would be deffered as a non airworthy DMI. Provided the control locks are the type like on a Beech, I may put a restriction on the DMI to the effect "Aircraft not to be left unattended on the ground in windy conditions unless hangared". If it was a mechanical lock from the cockpit like on a Dash 8 then I would say no. As for the Maint portion of the efis system I would have to know exactly what the system did before I could make a decision.

[torquey401]

DMI = deferred maintenance item, I assume.

So a DMI would cover those things not specified in an MEL? Then there must be details of this in the operators MCM?

I see deferred maintenance items all the time, such as when getting parts in to make non-critical repairs after finding a defect during maintenance. These items are written up and supposedly tracked by maintenance control. That being said, I've also MEL'ed items that are critical and listed in the MEL after an inspection and we can't fix it right there and then.

The maintenance computer I mentioned before is an integrated part of the whole EFIS system and monitors the performance of all the avionics systems. It accepts data, but does not send data back out to the rest of the system. It's used for troubleshooting and performng set-up procedures.

The control locks, when I dug into it, are seperate from the aircraft, and are considered service equipment, much like engine plugs and prop ties and pitot covers.

[29 ford]

All the aircraft I have worked on the Maintenance computer can be Mel'd under ATA 45. Usually they send engine trend monitoring so the only restriction is to manually do engine trends.

[torquey401]

What if the maintenance computer is not included in the MEL?

I'm trying to get a handle on when the MEL is followed and when it isn't. I always thought it was followed, with no exceptions (except for airworthiness limitations and AD's).

[log sheet]

Intresting discussion.
Well the way it has been explained to me annually at 3 different airlines is that it is a tool used to allow flight to continue for a specified period of time with certain systems inoperative. This is after the company and Transport come to an agreement on what the aircraft in question can fly without, "Minimum equipment."
So that's the way I take it, if it's not in the MEL then it is not defferable so I guess she's sitting until it's rectified. Obviousley a ripped carpet is not going to show up in the MEL so use a bit of common sense and secure it so a passanger will not trip over it instead of grounding the A/C. I don't think anybody would down you for temorarly repairing something cosmetic.If you have a VHF Comm that is U/S and there is no provision for deferring it in the MEL than I have to fix it before it can fly.
If you are going to pick and choose what you can defer why bother with a rule book(MEL), you don't have to have one, just use the CARS reference in Chapter 6 something.
Cheers!

[29 ford]

Torquey401, it has to be determined if is an "Airworthy" item or not. If you think it is then it sits. Some guys are not willing to put their name on the line and you can't blame them because if it comes back to haunt you don't expect the company to stand by you. If you did DMI the Maintenance function of the EFIS system ask yourself " If transport questioned me on this could I explain my actions". To answer your question from the info you have provided I would DMI it as non-airworthy provided it is used by maintenance personnel only on the ground as an aid to assist in trouble-shooting faulty systems and it in no way shape or form affects the "airworthiness" of the aircraft. I have been known to be a little greasy at times, but I have never released an aircraft I wouldn't put my kids on.

[29 ford]

Further to above we all as Maintenance and pilots bend the rules whether your willing to admit it or not. Every time you remove a panel do you check the IPC to ensure the guy ahead of you installed the right dash number screw? From a pilot perspective, if the Captain of a 767 was turning onto the button of runway 23R in YYZ heading to YVR and the F/O noticed they just ran out of acars paper which renders the acars printer inoperative. Is he going to set Take-off power or is he going to ask for taxi clearance back to the gate for paper or a MEL? Maybe a bad example cause I do know a few pilot's who would come back to the gate.

[log sheet]

Further to above we all as Maintenance and pilots bend the rules whether your willing to admit it or not.

I don't know what your talking about

Every time you remove a panel do you check the IPC to ensure the guy ahead of you installed the right dash number screw?

Of course

[torquey401]

AH-HA! That's what I was trying to get to.
At my place of employment, I don't trust anyone else, especially the main guy. There is no consistancy as to how stuff like this is done. One day it is done to the letter, other days ... don't worry about! Because of this I tend to take the anal road, because as was mentioned, I will be left holding the bag. I have been screwed over too many times.
And yes, I have double checked the screws in a panel.