Voyageur BE200 Capts.

[4hrstovegas]

Yet another new slogan:

"VAL... better than a non-paying skydiving gig."

PS - if somebody wants to pay for training and take their skills out of the country... who cares?

[Doc]

Yes I agree bonds are wrong and they shouldn't be but they have become a part of aviation due to our own fault. The point I'm trying to get across is VAL is actually a good company to work for when you get past the bond issue.

Also on the bond issue I know some companies don't have bonds but then they pay you 5 to 10 grand less in salary in the first 2 years of employment. Isn't this in fact paying for your PPC.

Sure you do. Name one. Do you think YOU are partly to blame for VAL requiring money up front? Did YOU leave some poor company high and dry? Then why are you so willing to pay...if you're not partly to blame? Which you are....as is every pilot who has ever walked into VAL's office with a cheque book in hand. Be a MAN....tell them to get stuffed.

But, YTS is by far a better place than YXL!

[Cubester]

Not sure it this was answered b4 but, does anyone know, if one were to come to VAL with a current PPC......is the training bond still required? Or can you go to ur thing and move on with no heartache?

Cube

[Just another canuck]

Doc,

Do you think it would be a better choice to remain unemployed for the winter and hope to get something in the spring where no bond is req'd? Ya know, maybe spend the winter on the couch, getting fat, not working or contributing to society in any way.

You say tell VAL to stuff it... and the pilots that pay the bond are whores, but I see more evil in remaining unemployed or going on EI... which I can't get anyway. I don't agree with the bond but I most certainly don't want to sit around and not work... or go back to a labour job which I am not happy in.

I say the lesser of two evils is pay the bond... you are going to get it back.

[Doc]

Doc,

Do you think it would be a better choice to remain unemployed for the winter and hope to get something in the spring where no bond is req'd? Ya know, maybe spend the winter on the couch, getting fat, not working or contributing to society in any way.

You say tell VAL to stuff it... and the pilots that pay the bond are whores, but I see more evil in remaining unemployed or going on EI... which I can't get anyway. I don't agree with the bond but I most certainly don't want to sit around and not work... or go back to a labour job which I am not happy in.

I say the lesser of two evils is pay the bond... you are going to get it back.

If you can afford to pay these maggots 8-15K for a job, you can afford to take the winter off and look for something. Yes.
I didn't call anybody a "whore".
VAL does not now, or has never had a "bond". A "bond" would be a promissory note for a certain value, that you would pay back, pro rated over the time you were employed, should you leave before that time period has passed
VAL requires you to BUY A JOB WITH YOUR MONEY UP FRONT. Do you NOT see a difference here?

[Just another canuck]

Doc,

Do you think it would be a better choice to remain unemployed for the winter and hope to get something in the spring where no bond is req'd? Ya know, maybe spend the winter on the couch, getting fat, not working or contributing to society in any way.

You say tell VAL to stuff it... and the pilots that pay the bond are whores, but I see more evil in remaining unemployed or going on EI... which I can't get anyway. I don't agree with the bond but I most certainly don't want to sit around and not work... or go back to a labour job which I am not happy in.

I say the lesser of two evils is pay the bond... you are going to get it back.

If you can afford to pay these maggots 8-15K for a job, you can afford to take the winter off and look for something. Yes.
I didn't call anybody a "whore".
VAL does not now, or has never had a "bond". A "bond" would be a promissory note for a certain value, that you would pay back, pro rated over the time you were employed, should you leave before that time period has passed
VAL requires you to BUY A JOB WITH YOUR MONEY UP FRONT. Do you NOT see a difference here?

If you can afford to pay 8-15k for a job doesn't necessarily mean you can take the winter off. A lot of people don't have this money but can get it if you can get a job due to the loan. Anyway, yes, I do see the difference and I apologize for accusing you of calling those who pay the money whores. I guess I've just seen that word so much around here I assumed you agreed with the term.

So to go on... I wouldn't want to pay this money. I would be happy to sign a contract saying I'll pay if I blast off somewhere else. However, I would rather "buy a job", as you call it, then not work at all. That's just me. Sorry if I would be contributing to somewhat of a downfall of the industry, but there is nothing we can do about it. That's just the way it is.

And another thing... you get the money back. What have you to say about the thousands of pilots in Europe or Africa, etc. that pay for 737 or 320 ratings... and we're talking a lot more than 8k here. They pay for the rating and don't see any of it back. The practice doesn't seem so bad when you look at what's going on around the rest of the globe.

[Doc]

We could dgo back and forth all night on this....



I'm sure we can agree on something? Like, I think this woman is HOT! You?

[Just another canuck]

Sounds good... but just so you know, I don't disagree with you. You make completely valid points that make complete sense. I wish I had the money and experience to be able to tell companies like this to eat shit... some day I suppose.

And yes, she is quite hot...

[Cat Driver]

I'm sure we can agree on something? Like, I think this woman is HOT! You?

And yes, she is quite hot...

I hope you two know more about flying than you seem to know about women.

Looks can be the biggest disappointment you will ever have when it comes to women.

You two better stick to airplanes and leave the women to us guys who understand the subject a little better.

[rigpiggy]

I

You two better stick to airplanes and leave the women to us guys who understand the subject a little better.

How could you understand women when there are so few who understand themselves.


Married twice, still don't understand, maybe third times a charm.

[Just another canuck]

Looks can be the biggest disappointment you will ever have when it comes to women.

I'm not sure this statement even makes sense... "looks" and "biggest disappointment"... I think we call that an oxymoron.

You two better stick to airplanes and leave the women to us guys who understand the subject a little better.

Well I won't say I understand them, in fact I'll be the first to admit I haven't a clue... but surely you can save us a few Cat... you can't have them all. Or tell you what, I'll take the good looking ones and be disappointed. You can have the "nice" girls. LOL

[av8tor_assrope]

...i think what cat was trying to say was "beauty fades....dumb is forever!"

[Just another canuck]

...i think what cat was trying to say was "beauty fades....dumb is forever!"

Oooooh..... gotcha. Well, then, when the beauty fades, just trade her in for a new model.

Problem solved.

[Never Mind]

Looks can be the biggest disappointment you will ever have when it comes to women.

Absolutely correct! I've seen some very 'beautiful' women, all smiles, sexy and flirty with the boys, go back home and ravage their families. They would argue about everything, anything and about nothing.

...(Heads Up Girls!)...

Good looks, being upfront and visible, are marginally important. But how good it is to be with someone who is honest, caring, serious-minded, patient, loving and even-keeled.

Never Mind

[Just another canuck]

But how good it is to be with someone who is honest, caring, serious-minded, patient, loving and even-keeled.

What you've described is someone you want to settle down with, get married, etc. and who said anything about wanting to do such an absurd thing.

[av8tor_assrope]

and i quote one of the funniest captains i ever flew with. he's been divorced 3 times......."i don't give a shit what she thinks. i told my wife when she turns 50 i'm trading her in for 2...25 year olds"

[F/O Crunch]

when she turns 50 i'm trading her in for 2...25 year olds"

Solid Gold

[xsbank]

"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life,
Never make a pretty woman your wife
For my personal thought for you,
Get an ugly girl to marry you..."

[Cat Driver]

Thomas Edison invented the perfect equalizer.

[Just another canuck]

"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life,
Never make a pretty woman your wife
For my personal thought for you,
Get an ugly girl to marry you..."

Very wise... I shall remember that.

[Sneeker]

Ok we have a lot of VAL bashing on this site and none of the bashing is from VAL employee's.

First off yes there is a bond of 8 grand for the BE20. Well I have to say most places today have bonds. Ask why we have bonds, well us as pilots did it to ourselves. How many pilot's came to VAL got their PPC then went to Ken Borek for more money. Can you blame VAL for having a bond. For the bond it's not give VAL 8 Grand and you have a job, actually they will co sign the bond for you. So actually in this case the bond is in VAL's name. To be honest they co sign on most bonds.

For the training they invest quite a bit of cash. First you go to North Bay for 2 weeks for ground school. While in North Bay they pay for transportation to and from the hotel to base plus pay for the hotel. Then you go to Moncton for the sim where they also pay for the Hotel, Transportation, meals, etc... Then to Timmins for aircraft training where everything is paid for again. Also during all of this they pay for your air fare to North Bay, to Moncton, to Timmin's, to your base, to home. Now can all the experts on this site tell me how many companies actually do this?, trust me a lot don't. Don't you have to pay for your own hotel room for ground school with WestJet. I know VAL is not Westjet but just to make a point.

For the pay yes the North Bay Salary for charter is crap but man just look at Keewatin Air's latest ad, $45,900 for a medevac 200 captain. Here we are paid 65 grand for the medevac captain's plus over time. This year I will make close to 90 grand with the overtime. Not bad for a BE20. Plus on that note here we are never expected to bust duty times, bust minimum's, fly over weight or ever break any rule. Actually here if you do any of the previous expect to lose your job.

For people coming in yes Ornge is taking over soon but our contract was renewed until Nov 09. Also when they do take over, VAL will pay for the move if relocated to another base or if the BE20's are moved to North Bay for charter you will stay at the same pay rate as a medevac captain. Also if laid off then the bond is null in void.

If any body has any questions about Val please feel free to ask and I'll be glad to answer. Also if any body has any comments about VAL just ask an employee and we will all be glad to answer. Just a side note but most employee's are actually happy with working with VAL. Surprising isn't it.

And for DOC next time your in YXL just drop over to the base and any of us would be glad to sit down over a coffee and talk to you. Just think about it, it will only take one or two pilot's to leave for them to implement a bond. Come on your company is owned by bankers.

Sounds to me like it was VAL's fault. Your pilots are walking because some one else is paying more, maybe the top dogs should take a pay cut so they can keep their pilots. What are Capt's paid there?

[Spokes]

"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life,
Never make a pretty woman your wife
For my personal thought for you,
Get an ugly girl to marry you..."

-Percy Sledge I believe...nice

[xsbank]

ARTIST: Jimmy Soul
TITLE: If You Wanna Be Happy
Lyrics and Chords


{Refrain}
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So from my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you

{Refrain}

A pretty woman makes her husband look small
And very often causes his downfall
As soon as he marries her, then she starts
Doin' the things that will break his heart

But if you make an ugly woman your wife
You'll be happy for the rest of your life
An ugly woman cooks your meals on time
An she'll always give you peace of mind

{Refrain}

Don't let your friends say you have no taste
Go ahead and marry anyway
Though her face is ugly and her eyes don't match
Take it from me, she's a better catch

[Just another canuck]

Nice tune xs... thanks for the rest of it.

Cheers.