The Flying Firemen - who were they?

[Cat Driver]

AAhhhh the good old days.

I'll never forget the picture of Stewart and and the engineer standing against the wall hands and feet spread with the OPP swat team holding shot guns on them.

By the way those idiots were firing a 44 Magnum and a 12 guage shot gun at two in the morning after coming home from the hotel.

Hutchinson lake cabins have never had such an exciting night before or since.

[X Driver]

Its interesting to see the Canso pictures show up here. I was fishing in Campbell River some years ago and our guide Sunny Covin told us how he rescued . from the bottom of the lake after the crash of that Canso. Its always interesting some of the history that comes up on this site.

[Cat Driver]

I think your memory is a little wonky there X driver.

For sure Sonny rescued the Captain of that PBY but it was not me, I have never wrecked an airplane.

As I recall Sonny was flying with a pilot with the initials of R.S.

[Flybabe]

Did I meet Bob Dyck in CA last summer??? I have a horrible memory for names.

Just Duckie would know, maybe SeptRepair knows too? LOL..

[Cat Driver]

Bob was flying the Mars in California last summer Flybabe, so you could have met him.

[CLguy]

The Flying Firemen - who were they?

They could have just done some filming of the characters that worked there and called the movie Star Wars!! Still not sure though which one of the Star Wars characters would best represent Cat Driver!!

[Driving Rain]

They were such a flying circus by the 80's we nick named them the "Falling Firemen".
. if memory serves me wasn't the incident that fuelled the gun battle something to do with a snag in the man. press. or tac. of one engine. The engineer decided to just reverse the left and right hook ups behind the panel. You noticed it on start up and freaked on the idiot. Of course their response was to get blind drunk and try to kill you.

The Hutchinson Lake gun Battle as it came to be known was the begining of the end for heavy water bombing contractors in Ontario. The Headline in the Thunder Bay paper the next day said "MNR Pilots in Gun Battle Swat Called." Coarse they weren't MNR but you know newspapers.
It was great for a while, everyone gave me a wide berth.

That and some shit pulled by the next contractor the MNR took to operating the 215 waterbombers in house by 1985 or 86. CL Guy I know you were instrumental in pointing out some of the rip offs by the next contractor. I still have that letter

[Cat Driver]

. if memory serves me wasn't the incident that fuelled the gun battle something to do with a snag in the man. press. or tac. of one engine. The engineer decided to just reverse the left and right hook ups behind the panel. You noticed it on start up and freaked on the idiot. Of course their response was to get blind drunk and try to kill you

Yes, one of my manifold pressure gauges was U/S and I had snagged it in the log book.

The next morning there was a big OMNR thing going on wherein I was to do a demo drop for the public that had been invited. I checked the log book and there was an entry that they had changed the gauge, when I fired up the engines it was evident they had just switched the gauges.

I shut down and asked then what they had done and they said they fixed the problem I had with the left engine MP gauge not working.

So I refused to fly the airplane....and a fire call came in and I refused to fly it because the engineer and his helper had gone to town.

The rest is history, they drank all day and all night and came back to Hutchinson lake at 2 AM and proceeded to shoot the place up..looking for me.

There was a real tight friendship between the guy in charge of OMNR and the owner of the Flying Fireman that allowed such petty things as that to be swept under the carpet...by the way the OMNR guy ( R.K. ) finally helped the owner of the Flying Fireman get rid of me when I would not help get rid of the union that the pilots had gotten certified...in the end I got rid of R.K. and all you OMNR types owe me for that...how about a new SUV?

[Pratt]

Bruce Armstrong is alive and well living in Vermillion Bay NW OT.

Stewart Wood had a gun battle with . in the summer of 82 in YGQ. . lived to fight another day by using the bunker mentality. Ok,ok . pulled the bunk over himself as Stu fired away emptying a six shooter into Chucks cabin wall and matress. I haven't seen Coln Flint in years but remember he was a really bad poker player.

I can so see Stewart right in there.....................although I think he spells it Stuart.

[Cat Driver]

After the shooting party we gave Stuart and the engineer new names.

The engineer was known as " Bushed Cassidy " and Stewart was " The Sum-dunce Kid "

So from then on we called them Bushed Cassidy and the Sum-Dunce Kid.

Those were the days for sure....if we got a call on a "Blue day " I would drive to the golf course and have the bird dog officer and the bird dog pilot and my F.O. extinguish the marajuana joints they were smoking and head for the airport.

Do they still do drugs on " Blue " days in Ont. or is that a thing of the past?

[Driving Rain]

Those were the days for sure....if we got a call on a "Blue day " I would drive to the golf course and have the bird dog officer and the bird dog pilot and my F.O. extinguish the marajuana joints they were smoking and head for the airport.

I don't think Don McNabb or myself as only bird dog pilots in YGQ ever did anything like your suggesting. As a matter of fact I didn't have a drink from 82 to 92 and Don had given up booze long before you meet too. I also never ever golfed with any of those guys. As I recall Don and I were as welcome in that crowd as farts in a flight suit, so I'd clarify just which bird dog pilots you are talking about ..
I can't speak for the BD officers but I could smell skunk on your co-joe and some of those other guys at times. I just assumed they kept running over them on the way to work.

Do they still do drugs on " Blue " days in Ont. or is that a thing of the past?

That was 30 years ago . times have changed ... a lot. The fire program has gone through some huge changes since then. I haven't seen what your talking about for over 20 years. Probably because there are very few B.C. ers in the program since the falling firemen days.

[Cat Driver]

No it was not you or Don, but for sure the group that I was stuck with one season had a real problem with it.

At one point my F.O. was so out of it one morning on a fire he pulled the power on me with power lines ahead of me.

I tried to get a crew change but the internal politics worked against me.....anyhow Driving Rain I am sure that those days are long gone and should have never been to start with.

Maybe it would be better to just not discuss it in the first place?

[Driving Rain]

Maybe it would be better to just not discuss it in the first place?

There is a danger in discussing it if it's not put in the context of the times. You got a raw deal in Ontario but you were not the only one. I and some other good guys I know have had to fight and stand up for our basic rights over the years. What do you think they tried to do to my career when I stood up for you with the Ontario Ombudsman? The people your talking about are long gone from the MNR or not now in positions to have any influence on our day to day operations.
When RK went out the door into early retirement We had a huge beer bash as I recall. There were a lot of smiling faces on the ramp that day. Yours was just one of the nails in his coffin. There were many others.

No place is perfect
Working here as changed for the better over the years. One of the best changes came in 1991 when the air service went back under it's own management. No longer is the guy who is in charge of tents, tarps, fire pumps, gas, axes, shovels ...CL215's in charge of a multi million dollar air operation and service.

[Cat Driver]

Driving Rain it is not my intention to suggest that the water bombing industry has not changed for the better, I was only recalling some of the less stellar people that somehow got into it back then.

As to my getting a raw deal, I knew exactly what would happen when I refused to help break the union for the Flying Fireman and chose to end my career rather than live as a puppet for someone who would have cut my throat in a heart beat if he decided I was no longer of use.....the pilots did not get union certification because they were being well treated.

Looking back fifteen years of flying water bombers was a good job, and I always got what I asked for within reason....then the pilots joined the union and I backed them up...it was all over then and I went on to other things.

[SeptRepair]

Ah c'mon, you mean A W. was less than a saint when it came to conducting business and treating people with dignity?

[Cat Driver]

Actually during the 12 years I worked for the Flying Fireman I always made my own agreements regarding what I flew and for how much and I was never short changed that way.

The union thing was something the pilots decided to do. Alex gave me an ultimatum the winter the union was certified.

Either I helped him break the union or he would make sure I would never fly a water bomber in Canada again.

I told him to go @#$! himself, the next thing that happened was Alex phoned me and told me I no longer had a job because the OMNR had sent him a letter stating I was unacceptable as a water bombing pilot in Ontario he sent me a copy and sure enough it was from R K and that was exactly what it said.

I went to the Ontario Ombudsman and had enough evidence that he did a full investigation.....R K was removed from his position and I was given an interview with the OMNR to fly the CL215.

I turned down the job after the interview and life went on.

[SeptRepair]

Good for you. I always heard smatterings of the story but finally it has all come together over the last few posts. A's ever so pleasent off spring tried to get me and a buddy over the barrel a few years ago when we did some work on those HS 748s he had. Its when AirBC had the strike and everyone was trying to get interm contracts to fill in. We rebuiilt some flaps to get one machine servicable and when we went to get paid we were arrogantly informed we werent getting paid. No excuse, they just felt we were nobodys and they were bigger than the world. I was going to rip the head off the bastard. But calmer heads prevailed and we quietly dissassembled the other aircraft flaps for repair ( as directed by the DOM who had no clue of our predicament with the Ws.) Once apart we left with a few key parts in our possession and waited. Well sure enough a couple days pass and I get a phone call from daddy all pissed off asking to have the parts back so the flaps could be reassembled. They wanted to get the second machine flying to make some money. I for the life of me couldnt remember where i put them and if i had some money come my way i think i could find them. WOW did that old man explode!!! He even threatend to have the police called. I laughed at the old man. I informed him his son had stiffed me for about a grand on the previous Flap job and if he wanted the parts to pony up the money owed and cash up front for me to put the flaps together. I guess his offspring neglected to inform his father of his business ethics which is where he learned it from. Ah nothing like watching a disfunctional family in action. Long story short, I got paid and the Ws got to feel the barrel on their stomachs.

[Nephilim]

[Stewart Wood had a gun battle with . in the summer of 82 in YGQ. . lived to fight another day by using the bunker mentality. Ok,ok . pulled the bunk over himself as Stu fired away emptying a six shooter into Chucks cabin wall and matress. I haven't seen Coln Flint in years but remember he was a really bad poker player.]

I believe it was 1983. No shots were fired at .'s cabin or matress, in fact 'bushed cassidy' and 'the sumdunce kid' did not even know (at that time) that . refused to fly that day due to their shoddy maintenance. Colin Plint actually took his poker very seriously.

[AAhhhh the good old days. I'll never forget the picture of Stewart and and the engineer standing against the wall hands and feet spread with the OPP swat team holding shot guns on them. By the way those idiots were firing a 44 Magnum and a 12 guage shot gun at two in the morning after coming home from the hotel.]

How did you see that . from hiding under your bed? The cops had 30-30's and it was a 357 magnum.

[The rest is history, they drank all day and all night and came back to Hutchinson lake at 2 AM and proceeded to shoot the place up..looking for me.]

Again, they weren't looking for you . because if they had of, you would be dead (under your bed).

[Those were the days for sure....if we got a call on a "Blue day " I would drive to the golf course and have the bird dog officer and the bird dog pilot and my F.O. extinguish the marajuana joints they were smoking and head for the airport.]

. you always were a bullshitter (or to put it politely - tend to exagerate). You should get your facts straight before you slander someone. And weren't you the little angel!

[Ah c'mon, you mean A W. was less than a saint when it came to conducting business and treating people with dignity?]

Yes, AW was all of that, but his son was worse.

[I informed him his son had stiffed me for about a grand on the previous Flap job and if he wanted the parts to pony up the money owed and cash up front for me to put the flaps together. I guess his offspring neglected to inform his father of his business ethics which is where he learned it from. Ah nothing like watching a disfunctional family in action. Long story short, I got paid and the Ws got to feel the barrel on their stomachs.]

SeptRepair, glad you got your money out of the Hawkers. I lost over 150k on those 748's due to the 'sumdunce kid' and his lack of morals and other difficulties.

[Driving Rain]

According to the New American Bible, the Nephilim appear as part of the "increasing wickedness of mankind.

[Flybabe]

I have to admit, this has become an entertaining (and interesting) thread.

Thanks, all

[Nephilim]

Fallen angels, guilty as charged.

[Edelweiss air]

I have to admit, this has become an entertaining (and interesting) thread.

Thanks, all

I'm with Flybabe on this one ! Awesome read lol

[FlyingFiremenC/PGSon]

who has more pics?

[FlyingFiremenC/PGSon]

I think I probably have a different perspective on the Flying Fireman than anyone else could possible have. My Grandfather was the Chief Pilot and was caught in the middle of a lot of this stuff. He was the consummate pilot who certainly commanded the respect of the pilots that I met over the years. Being management I am sure that he made his share of friends and enemies amongst the crews but I know that he tried very hard to balance his responsibilities to everyone in the organization. Whether he showed it outwardly or not he spent most of his days and night trying to make sure that the crews were afforded a modicum of safety based on what resources he was allowed to deliver. Our phone never stopped ringing round the clock and his mind never left any of the pilots or the ground crew... it was an obsession for him.... if you have a story about Mike Pearson please post it in this or the other thread that I started and resurrected ... or pm me with it if you want. I am also looking for photos of the Cansos and all the people that he may have worked with at the FF. Please scan away and don't be afraid or shy. I want to hear and learn as much as possible.

[Cat Driver]

I flew for the F.F. for twelve years.

Your grandfather and I were as different as night and day as far as our backgrounds were concerned, Mike was ex air force and I was a rebel and considered to be " not a team player " by most of the forestry bosses......but both Mike and I were pilots first and last.

Poor Mike must have almost lost his mind trying to cover for me and all the shit I got into by refusing to suck up to the forestry bosses.

So he did the only thing he could think of he made me and my crew " A lone wolf crew" It worked just fine because every time I got into trouble in one district there was a fire somewhere else and I just fucked off and went to another province...worked like a damn because instead of sucking dick to keep my job I put out forest fires.

There was a four year period where I flew for Manitoba and was treated like a king and never told anyone to @#$! off...poor Mike he must have been really stressed as time went by wondering when the phone would ring and he would have to move me again.

Even though we were very different we worked together for all those years and had a real good relationship...except for the times he had to fire me to make it look good to some idiot in some forest district...which happened frequently.

When Alex fired me and got me banned from flying fire bombers Mike always remained one of my closest friends and the last time he called me he told me to never give up in my fight to get a fair resolution to my being blackballed by Alex and some OMNR bosses.

I had no idea Mike was dying from cancer the last time he phoned me.

He was and always will be someone I admired for the things he tried to do for his pilots.....like you said he was really limited in what he really could do.....being ex Air force he understood you cant beat the system, something I refused to accept.

So there is how it was between me and your grandfather FlyingFiremenC/PGSon and I am more than happy to tell it like it was.