the example i'm trying to illustrate is when you aren't promised anything but are asked to make a promise to the the employer. why the double standard?

godsrcrazy wrote:I wonder how many of these guys just quit full time jobs with senior positions a few months ago to get laid off at Canadian North.

One of the guys who was in my initial g/s (April '08) at Jazz, quit during sim, for a position with canadian north. Anyone have "cobra's" e-mail?

1/2 of the dash 8 guys that were ALL just hired are facing the layoff's. Some had just left great paying jobs only a couple months ago to come to a more "Stable" place....

guess no one knows anymore

By your comments I guess that the new bid is out? And it shows a downsizing?

All of the most recent new hires are still here, none were laid off as a result of the previous bid last summer.

Just an FYI, not a single pilot got laid off at Canadian North...and Enerjet has yet to lay off anyone either...so for all you gossip mongers out there, before you start trashing companies, saying they left to come to a more "stable" company, well, I would say losing a large amount of your flying and still keeping everyone onboard is a pretty remarkable job. Can't say the same for some other companies. Kudos to Canadian North and Enerjet for finding a place for everyone.

Layoffs did happen in the inflight department. My friend works there, and said it was tough, but again, the flying got cut back. Unfortunately a fact of life in the airline industry. If you want stable, go work at Wal Mart.

Maybe someone like you who's in the know could have posted correct information sooner than 2 months later?

Air Bag wrote: well, I would say losing a large amount of your flying and still keeping everyone onboard is a pretty remarkable job. Can't say the same for some other companies. Kudos to Canadian North and Enerjet for finding a place for everyone.

Layoffs did happen in the inflight department. My friend works there, and said it was tough, but again, the flying got cut back. Unfortunately a fact of life in the airline industry. If you want stable, go work at Wal Mart.

So it's okay if other people got laid off but not pilots?

Unfortunately part of life right now...layoffs across many companies. But to bash companies, saying that they "promise" stable work, that they left good jobs to go to Canadian North, well, that's unfair, as there is never anything such as a "promise" like that in the airline industry, and why did they leave a good job then?

It's never a good thing when people lose jobs; again, unfortunately it's part of life, part of the airline industry when times are tough. Again, if you want stable, go work at Wal Mart where they are always looking for people.

2 months later? Well, sorry I didn't have all the facts in the day after. Takes time to do the homework instead of spouting off blasphemy.

ITS HAPPENING AGAIN!!!!

A study in why Canadian aviation can’t rely on commodity prices and one-time projects.

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 01, 2025 5:19 pm A study in why Canadian aviation can’t rely on commodity prices and one-time projects.

Empress has always had ups and downs, that's the nature of charter work. I haven't heard if its 737 crews, or ATR, or a mix being hit. Porter is hiring 400 more pilots, AC is still going, as are Jazz and Encore, so the folks getting layoff should be getting picked up quick hopefully.

co-joe wrote: ↑Sun Nov 02, 2025 6:48 pm

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 01, 2025 5:19 pm A study in why Canadian aviation can’t rely on commodity prices and one-time projects.

Empress has always had ups and downs, that's the nature of charter work. I haven't heard if its 737 crews, or ATR, or a mix being hit. Porter is hiring 400 more pilots, AC is still going, as are Jazz and Encore, so the folks getting layoff should be getting picked up quick hopefully.

It's amazing how even in the good times it's such a terrible industry to work in

I would never talk someone into climbing the greased pole as a career. We're here because we need it. We embraced the suffering.

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 01, 2025 5:19 pm A study in why Canadian aviation can’t rely on commodity prices and one-time projects.

Like when 5T flew all through covid and never laid off any pilots? Some commodities are necessary at all times.

newlygrounded wrote: ↑Mon Nov 03, 2025 8:55 pm

co-joe wrote: ↑Sun Nov 02, 2025 6:48 pm

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 01, 2025 5:19 pm A study in why Canadian aviation can’t rely on commodity prices and one-time projects.

Empress has always had ups and downs, that's the nature of charter work. I haven't heard if its 737 crews, or ATR, or a mix being hit. Porter is hiring 400 more pilots, AC is still going, as are Jazz and Encore, so the folks getting layoff should be getting picked up quick hopefully.

It's amazing how even in the good times it's such a terrible industry to work in

Based on the assumption that these are good times(and it is not a recession in Canada or the US).....I see layoffs in high tech, banks, oil industry, government, etc. This is just normal.

pelmet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 05, 2025 4:43 am

newlygrounded wrote: ↑Mon Nov 03, 2025 8:55 pm

co-joe wrote: ↑Sun Nov 02, 2025 6:48 pm

Empress has always had ups and downs, that's the nature of charter work. I haven't heard if its 737 crews, or ATR, or a mix being hit. Porter is hiring 400 more pilots, AC is still going, as are Jazz and Encore, so the folks getting layoff should be getting picked up quick hopefully.

It's amazing how even in the good times it's such a terrible industry to work in

Based on the assumption that these are good times(and it is not a recession in Canada or the US).....I see layoffs in high tech, banks, oil industry, government, etc. This is just normal.

I worded it badly, I didn't mean to say now is a good time, just that even in the best of times the industry is shaky.

Flight94 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 04, 2025 10:48 pm

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 01, 2025 5:19 pm A study in why Canadian aviation can’t rely on commodity prices and one-time projects.

Like when 5T flew all through covid and never laid off any pilots? Some commodities are necessary at all times.

They didn't lay anyone off because the government covered the wages in SOME industries.

godsrcrazy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 11:49 am

Flight94 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 04, 2025 10:48 pm

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 01, 2025 5:19 pm A study in why Canadian aviation can’t rely on commodity prices and one-time projects.

Like when 5T flew all through covid and never laid off any pilots? Some commodities are necessary at all times.

They didn't lay anyone off because the government covered the wages in SOME industries.

To be clear the government Subsidized pretty much every aviation Company in the NWT. That would be why the majority of them did not do layoffs. Wish they would have done that for all industries.

My personal belief is this has more to do with the fact that EIC has all but monopolized northern flying and government contracts. There's little incentive for them to look for work because its easier to return value to their shareholders via guaranteed fed money.

The previous owners of Canadian North/First Air spent a lot of time finding charter work on top of their northern routes.

godsrcrazy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 11:49 am

Flight94 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 04, 2025 10:48 pm

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 01, 2025 5:19 pm A study in why Canadian aviation can’t rely on commodity prices and one-time projects.

Like when 5T flew all through covid and never laid off any pilots? Some commodities are necessary at all times.

They didn't lay anyone off because the government covered the wages in SOME industries.

They didn't lay anyone off because we flew the entire time

Reason for layoffs in this article......

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/ca ... -9.6971467

Looks like 5T pilots need a scope clause in their next contract badly. If EIC can just take any work they want away from them and give it to 3H at lower wages, I'd be seriously wondering what routes are next? If I was a pilot at 5T I would 100% make this the hill to die on for the next contract.

co-joe wrote: ↑Thu Dec 18, 2025 8:44 am Looks like 5T pilots need a scope clause in their next contract badly. If EIC can just take any work they want away from them and give it to 3H at lower wages, I'd be seriously wondering what routes are next? If I was a pilot at 5T I would 100% make this the hill to die on for the next contract.

That’s not what’s happening though.

FishermanIvan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 4:56 pm

co-joe wrote: ↑Thu Dec 18, 2025 8:44 am Looks like 5T pilots need a scope clause in their next contract badly. If EIC can just take any work they want away from them and give it to 3H at lower wages, I'd be seriously wondering what routes are next? If I was a pilot at 5T I would 100% make this the hill to die on for the next contract.

That’s not what’s happening though.

That's what the article says is happening. What do you think is happening?

co-joe wrote: ↑Thu Dec 25, 2025 10:37 pm

FishermanIvan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 4:56 pm

co-joe wrote: ↑Thu Dec 18, 2025 8:44 am Looks like 5T pilots need a scope clause in their next contract badly. If EIC can just take any work they want away from them and give it to 3H at lower wages, I'd be seriously wondering what routes are next? If I was a pilot at 5T I would 100% make this the hill to die on for the next contract.

That’s not what’s happening though.

That's what the article says is happening. What do you think is happening?

Makivviq sold Canadian North, but kept the YUL-YVP route, operated by Air Inuit (also owned by Makivviq). When EIC purchased Canadian North, the YUL-YVP route wasn't part of the deal.