Discovery Air

[sky's the limit]

Ya Tuk U, do you actually have anything to educate us with or are YOU barking up a dead dogs arse??

Well if you're ready to be educated then listen up or rather have a look, I started this post with information printed in the media and then followed up with more info also in the media, unlike stl he's "cracked up"

Ah,

So you're one of those... got it. You believe everything you read?

Perhaps you could put your attitude aside for a moment and understand sometimes, there are people who have information you don't....

You still crack me up.... You'll find that many of us disagree on here - frequently - but few of us have the patience to listen to guys with 10 post rant on about things they very obviously don't fully understand.

Ciao.

stl

[Tuk U]

Ah,

So you're one of those... got it. You believe everything you read?

Perhaps you could put your attitude aside for a moment and understand sometimes, there are people who have information you don't....

You still crack me up.... You'll find that many of us disagree on here - frequently - but few of us have the patience to listen to guys with 10 post rant on about things they very obviously don't fully understand.

Ciao.

stl[/quote]

When wisdom fails resort to ....ya but you only have a 10 post rant, just because you impress yourself , don't assume that anyone else is impressed, you have no clue as to what I "understand" and I am not measured by how many posts I post. I've been in this racket since the 1900's.... so go make some scrambled eggs, you've cracked enough.

[raven54]

The 1900's, holy shit balls!! You must be older than Cat... But I do agree that people disregarding posters due to their number of posts is lame. Who gives a @#$! how posts someone has, all it shows is that they don't have much of a life and spend too much time on the computer when they have tonnes of posts.

[sky's the limit]

When wisdom fails resort to ....ya but you only have a 10 post rant, just because you impress yourself , don't assume that anyone else is impressed, you have no clue as to what I "understand" and I am not measured by how many posts I post. I've been in this racket since the 1900's.... so go make some scrambled eggs, you've cracked enough.

You still fail to support anything you've said, it seems you have a hate on for Discovery for whatever reason - ex employee perhaps - and I still KNOW the key reasons behind the deal collapse... You it seems, talk the talk, but forget to walk...

So let's hear it. Tell me the "real" reason for the deal collapse, we'll see how close you really are, and perhaps explain your palpable anger towards Discovery while you're at it.


stl
PS It's not the 10 posts that's the issue - it's the attitude that comes with it. Show me you actually KNOW something, then perhaps I'll be a bit more tolerant of the attitude, but at this point you've shown nothing to support anything, and lots of attitude...

[Tuk U]

When wisdom fails resort to ....ya but you only have a 10 post rant, just because you impress yourself , don't assume that anyone else is impressed, you have no clue as to what I "understand" and I am not measured by how many posts I post. I've been in this racket since the 1900's.... so go make some scrambled eggs, you've cracked enough.

You still fail to support anything you've said, it seems you have a hate on for Discovery for whatever reason - ex employee perhaps - and I still KNOW the key reasons behind the deal collapse... You it seems, talk the talk, but forget to walk...

So let's hear it. Tell me the "real" reason for the deal collapse, we'll see how close you really are, and perhaps explain your palpable anger towards Discovery while you're at it.


stl
PS It's not the 10 posts that's the issue - it's the attitude that comes with it. Show me you actually KNOW something, then perhaps I'll be a bit more tolerant of the attitude, but at this point you've shown nothing to support anything, and lots of attitude...

Are there any yolks in them eggs!!!!! Holy sheep shit, I post what is on the news I didn't make it up, and out of that you get that I hate DA. perhaps you're ready for a nap. Experts we all need more of those.

[sky's the limit]

So you've got nothing. That's what I figured.

Have a good day.

stl

[Tuk U]

The 1900's, holy shit balls!! You must be older than Cat... But I do agree that people disregarding posters due to their number of posts is lame. Who gives a @#$! how posts someone has, all it shows is that they don't have much of a life and spend too much time on the computer when they have tonnes of posts.

No I don't think I 'm older than Cat. I haven't been around this forum long enough to figure out who he or Doc. is, I have a feeling though judging by there posts I defiantly know them, but JC I do know and I am almost as old a he is, of course much. much better looking, wiser much wiser I should add.

[Doc]

The 1900's, holy shit balls!! You must be older than Cat... But I do agree that people disregarding posters due to their number of posts is lame. Who gives a @#$! how posts someone has, all it shows is that they don't have much of a life and spend too much time on the computer when they have tonnes of posts.

No I don't think I 'm older than Cat. I haven't been around this forum long enough to figure out who he or Doc. is, I have a feeling though judging by there posts I defiantly know them, but JC I do know and I am almost as old a he is, of course much. much better looking, wiser much wiser I should add.

Better looking than JC?? I rather doubt that! You've never seen him by moon light. When the moon beams play upon his hair...he's actually very pretty!!

[godsrcrazy]

Sky’s the limit I don’t understand why you are jumping all over tuk u. One would think you owned this company personally.
You can think what you want it is a free country but this is a BAIL OUT. These guys were in huge trouble in 2 weeks with $33,000,000.00 coming due.I don't believe any bank was willing to bail them out. Here is another article saying that. Tuk U the only 1 that seems to have this right is Sky’s the limit. I love how McLeod skips around the pandora’s box question.




GNWT Gives Discovery Air Bailout Loan
Discovery Air announced Monday it had reached an agreement with the GNWT to secure a four-year, $34 million loan at 10% interest to help the firm though the tough economy. Discovery air has many holdings including Great Slave Helicopters and Air Tindi, as well as mining holdings, and will be relocating its head office from London, Ontario to Yellowknife. Industry, Tourism and Investment Minister Bob McLeod says they see it as a good investment, adding the money for the loan is coming from a special source. “The Opportunities Fund is a fund that all provinces and territories have signed on now, I think except for maybe four or five. And that’s funded through the immigrant investment program, where immigrants that come to Canada pay $400,000. We get to use the money for five years and we have to pay it back. So that’s why it lends itself to short-term loan arrangements.” Asked if the decision has opened a so-called Pandora's box for more requests, McLeod said the government would consider any other requests on a case-by-case basis and ensure any further ones are worth investing in.


And here is another that says its not a good investment but hell whats the Globe and mail know anyway.

Globe says Discovery Air a risky stock to explore

Discovery Air Inc (C:DA) 
Shares Issued 134,461,555
Last Close DA.A12/16/2008 $0.14
Wednesday December 17 2008 - In the News
The Globe and Mail reports in its Wednesday, Dec. 17, edition that Discovery Air closed Tuesday on the Toronto Stock Exchange unchanged at 14 cents. The Globe’s Steve Ladurantaye writes in the Eye On Equities column that with$33-million in debt due in February and fewer workers needed to be flown into remote job sites in Northern Canada, Versant Partners says Discovery Air faces a great deal of uncertainty. Versant lowered its ratings on the company's shares from "buy" to "neutral." As well, Versant cut its 12-month price target by 78.5per cent to 15 cents from 70 cents. Versant downgraded the shares to” speculative buy" from "buy" in the Eye On Equities column on Sept. 17. It was then trading at 57 cents. The brokerage suggested the likelihood of weak growth in the next year and a short-term management vacuum could cause problems. Clarus Securities analyst Steven Gold rated Discovery Air "buy" in The Globe on July13, 2007. It was then trading at $1.79. He gave the stock a 12-month target of$2.30. In the same Globe item Wellington West analyst Greg Colman heaped praise on Discovery Air, as did Greg Eckles, a manager of Morgan Meighen &Associates' closed-end Canadian General Investments Fund




As stated in another post by a different person DA should have had there butt sued off after making a public statement about some ones books not being in order

[Donald]

Geez, did they interview McLeod at the Black Knight after wings??

Tourism and Investment Minister Bob McLeod says they see it as a good investment, adding the money for the loan is coming from a special source. “The Opportunities Fund is a fund that all provinces and territories have signed on now, I think except for maybe four or five. And that’s funded through the immigrant investment program, where immigrants that come to Canada pay $400,000. We get to use the money for five years and we have to pay it back. So that’s why it lends itself to short-term loan arrangements.”

[Tuk U]

Better looking than JC?? I rather doubt that! You've never seen him by moon light. When the moon beams play upon his hair...he's actually very pretty!![/quote]

You know Doc I may have to print a retraction, now that you mention it, I do recall seeing him on the OLD ZOO dance floor, (I'm sure you know the place well) as I recall it was kinda dark in there and the way the stage lights were a shinnin on old JC, by geez he sure was stylin, pretty good dancer to for a pigeon toed fella, bear in mind I did have a few pops myself that night, so most everyone one was lookin pretty purty.

[Strega]

FYI this was the last NR from DA before the agreement was terminated:

DISCOVERY AIR INC.
NEWS RELEASE
For Immediate Release: March 7, 2007
Attention: Business Editors
DISCOVERY AIR INC.
ANNOUNCES NEED TO REVISE INTERIM AGREEMENT
TO PURCHASE VIH AVIATION GROUP LTD.
LONDON, March 7, 2007/CNW/ - David Taylor, President & C.E.O. of Discovery Air Inc. (TSX:
DA.A) announces that material issues arose during the due diligence by Discovery Air of VIH
Aviation Group Ltd. and its affiliate, YYJ FBO Services Ltd. (“VIH”). To address these issues,
Discovery Air hopes to revise certain material terms of the Interim Agreement governing the
acquisition of VIH, including the purchase price. At this time it is not known whether the Vendor will
be amenable to such revisions and if not, Discovery Air will terminate the transaction.
Discovery Air’s goal is to consolidate the fragmented Canadian niche aviation industry to realize
synergies and economies of scale, thereby creating a profitable and diversified company able to deliver
safe, professional air service to clients in selected niche markets.
Discovery Air’s Class A common shares trade on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbol
DA.A.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION PLEASE CONTACT:
Wade MacBain
Director of Investor Relations
Phone: 519-913-2204, ext. 358
Toll-free: 866-903-3247, ext. 358
E-mail: wadem@discoveryair.com

[just curious]

Better looking than JC?? I rather doubt that! You've never seen him by moon light. When the moon beams play upon his hair...he's actually very pretty!!

You know Doc I may have to print a retraction, now that you mention it, I do recall seeing him on the OLD ZOO dance floor, (I'm sure you know the place well) as I recall it was kinda dark in there and the way the stage lights were a shinnin on old JC, by geez he sure was stylin, pretty good dancer to for a pigeon toed fella, bear in mind I did have a few pops myself that night, so most everyone one was lookin pretty purty.

It's a good thing you came out with the retraction. I had the Zoo speaker bronzed, and placed it in the office. Bullet-proof, invisable, and man, could I dance!

[sky's the limit]

One would think you owned this company personally.

GC,

I have no vested interest in Discovery Air, GSH, Tindi, or any other company in this group. I am however starting to get somewhat frustrated at people coming on here and making proclamations which are not backed up. Press releases don't count - particularly in this case as anyone familiar with the situation knows that much was kept out the the public during the demise of this deal. To have someone start accusing people of "barking up the wrong tree" when they obviously are not familiar with many of the facts, is not acceptable to me. We have enough of that on here already. There were enough embellishments to wade through on both sides to begin with, we don't need to exacerbate the problem here.

As I said earlier, there was plenty of juicy stuff on both sides of this deal, and much of it will never see print - some may, we shall see. If DA goes belly up, I'm sure it will all come out.

I think many people are confusing terms on this. This is debt restructuring obtained within an existing system, the Opportunities Fund. Debt restructuring happens frequently in many industries, whether or not one agrees with it is another issue entirely, one I personally don't care to form an opinion on. There are many good people involved in this group of companies, as there are in the competitors to DA. I personally wish to see nobody out on the street, but unfortunately there will be many outfits across Canadian aviation who will not survive 2009. I wish it were not the case.

I'm sure the people at DA, GSH, Tindi, etc, are doing what I am sure they think best, nobody saw 2008 shaping up to be the tough year it was, in fact most operators were ramping up this time last year for another banner season. It didn't happen. None of us work there, so to pass comment on the validity of this move is futile. We will all see the outcome in the next two years.

Anyway, that's it.

stl

[godsrcrazy]

As I said earlier, there was plenty of juicy stuff on both sides of this deal, and much of it will never see print - some may, we shall see. If DA goes belly up, I'm sure it will all come out.


Well this is just a little Scary considering this is a publicly traded company. Being publicly traded everything should be transparent one would think. How can investors make an educated decision if only part of the deal is revealed ???

[Strega]

ask DH and PS what they think of Mr T and DA..........

[Rudy]

Geez, did they interview McLeod at the Black Knight after wings??

Tourism and Investment Minister Bob McLeod says they see it as a good investment, adding the money for the loan is coming from a special source. “The Opportunities Fund is a fund that all provinces and territories have signed on now, I think except for maybe four or five. And that’s funded through the immigrant investment program, where immigrants that come to Canada pay $400,000. We get to use the money for five years and we have to pay it back. So that’s why it lends itself to short-term loan arrangements.”

LOL. I was thinking maybe his first language was Inuktuk but that doesn't seem likely given the picture from his website: But who knows.

[Donald]

As others have said, should be interesting when GNWT tenders aviation work now.

Also, I think Mr Ramsay may be on to something when it comes to the benefit of this loan...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/20 ... -loan.html

MLA questions N.W.T.'s bailout of Discovery Air
Last Updated: Friday, January 23, 2009 | 4:06 PM CT Comments0Recommend0CBC News
Questions are flying about the Northwest Territories government's move this week to make a crucial $34-million loan to Discovery Air, with one MLA suggesting the government fund where the loan came from has turned into a high-risk slush fund for cabinet.

Discovery Air, the parent company of Yellowknife-based aviation firms Great Slave Helicopters and Air Tindi, announced Monday it received the loan from the N.W.T. government's Opportunities Fund.

Without that money, officials say the company — and hundreds of jobs in the N.W.T. — would have been in jeopardy.

"We're replacing a debt, a $33-million debt, that was coming due on Feb. 1," vice-president . Parker told CBC News.

"Without renewing that debt, of course, we would have a great deal of uncertainty for our company and for our employees."

As part of Monday's announcement, Discovery Air said it will move its corporate office to Yellowknife from London, Ont., in the next year. It also promised to move its helicopter training school to the N.W.T. capital from Springbank, Alta.

But those benefits may be moot, said Yellowknife Kam Lake MLA Dave Ramsay.

"If the helicopter school moves here, yes, we'll benefit. If the head office moves here, yes, we'll benefit. If Discovery Air goes bankrupt six months from now, we will not benefit," Ramsay said.

Debt a concern
Discovery Air also owns: Hicks and Lawrence, which provides aerial forest fire services in northwestern Ontario; Top Aces Inc., which provides airborne training services to the federal Defence Department; and Discovery Mining Services, a provider of remote mining exploration camps.

Parker said it also has joint ventures with aboriginal-owned companies throughout the N.W.T. and in Nunavut.

Discovery Air's $33-million debt, paired with a drop in business, has been an ongoing concern for the company, according to interim financial statements dated Oct. 31, 2008.

"In the current year, the corporation has experienced lower profitability than anticipated in certain of its operations due to the unfavourable weather conditions and lower demand for certain services provided to customers in the exploration, mining and tourism markets," say notes from the statements.

Parker said even Pacific and Western Bank of Canada, Discovery Air's founder, was in no hurry to lend the money that the government was offering.

"We have reached out to that bank [and] other banks for the loan, and this presented [itself] as the most appropriate, fair deal," Parker said of the N.W.T. loan, adding that it will also be a good deal for the N.W.T. Opportunities Fund.

The loan will charge 10 per cent in annual interest.

"At 10 per cent rate of return on this, that will generate — full term, 48 months — $13.6 million worth of interest for the loan fund," Parker said.

Balloon payment
The loan is repayable in "one balloon principal amount," meaning Discovery Air does not need to make payments until the loan is due.

Parker said the company does have the option of making payments during the 48-month period to avoid having to pay it all off in the end.

"I want to know who negotiated the loan on behalf of the [Government of the Northwest Territories]," Ramsay said.

"It's a balloon payment at the end of four years. No interest payments along the way."

Industry, Tourism and Investment Minister Bob McLeod said the loan is backed by hard assets — "something in the neighbourhood of $140 million worth of securities," he said — and more than 400 northern-based jobs will be saved at a time when the economy needs help.

"We see it as a good investment for the government," McLeod said.

"We're getting a very good return on our money and at the same time we are investing in northern businesses and we're keeping the economy going. That's how we looked at it."

McLeod also said the government has been thinking of moving "into an area whereby we would invest in … what we call blue-chip companies, with fairly quick repayments."

"Blue chip" usually refers to large, stable, long-profitable firms like banks.

Discovery Air owes more than $100 million in long-term debt, while the stock market values the company at just $47 million.

When the company made its initial public offering in 2006, each share was valued around 50 cents. Its stock on the Toronto Stock Exchange late Friday was at 40 cents.

'Is it a coincidence that they got the loan?'
Ramsay said there may be another factor behind the N.W.T. government's loan: Discovery Air insiders and major shareholders own or control about 57 per cent of the company, and some of those insiders, he said, have close connections or friendships with people in the government.

"People know who's friends with who, and you know, it happens that way that in this case ... there's the chair of [the Financial Management Board], the finance minister, yeah, he has friends inside that company," Ramsay said.

"I mean, is it a coincidence that they got the loan? I don't know."

Ramsay added that he and other non-cabinet MLAs were left in the dark about the government's decision to give Discovery Air the loan.

"Unfortunately, the public sees it as the government lending the money," he said.

"I just want people to know this was an [Financial Management Board] directive to lend the money to Discovery Air. At no time did regular members know about it, and we found out after the fact."

Parker acknowledged he has a friendship with Finance Minister Michael Miltenberger, who is also chairman of the Financial Management Board. He said he and Miltenberger were present when Discovery Air made its request for a loan to the government on Nov. 27, 2008.

"As a company, we made a presentation to a group, ministers and delegates of the government, and we believe that the arrangement that was put forward and the application had merit," he said. "Acquaintances or no acquaintances, the deal has to stand to scrutiny."

As for Discovery Air's future, Parker said about half of its business is already booked for the next year, while it also seeks new opportunities in northern Ontario and in Alberta.

[rum-runner]

The tax payers of the NWT are about to have sex like they have never had sex before.
(if you know what I am saying)

This one should be going before some sort of board of inquiry before it gets right out of hand.

Not only are the tax payers gonna have sex, but the other aviation operators, who are feeling the pinch, are gonna have sex..twice. Once when they stick their hand out for money and once when they bid on contracts.

I am not sure if there is an ombudsman for the NWT, I dont think they have one. Because the NWT still falls under federal responsibility, I think that the Auditor General, Ms. Fraser, should be informed of this.

How does this shit happen??

[just curious]

That's good. Getting older I don't get as much as I used to, so I'm glad my government is provided it.

[kevinsky18]

Unbelievable. What is this Air Canada take two? How can this type of loan be sneaked through without public input or consultation.

I've spent seven years in Yellowknife and would love to see good things done for aviation and jobs created for pilots in the north but this does none of that.

First this is a loan given out by the NWT i.e NWT tax payers money. But it does not finance a northern company, DA is not a northern company it a southern company that does some of its business in the north. DA isn’t going to move their headquarters to the north nor are they going to move their flying school to Yellowknife either. They will open an office and put a couple of staff in there and call it “their head office.” It will be a puppet office and chances are it will be staffed by already existing employees that are already up here. They will keep their school in the south and when the government complains they will say, “but we asked our students to come and move up to YK to finish their training and they all said no so we had to stay south.” DA already has the freaken money! What is the NWT going to do now if they don’t comply with either of these conditions?

Second there isn’t a single Canadian that isn’t aware of how futile it is to prop up an airline. If DA was even remotely capable of making a profit they would have gotten a loan from another bank.

If anyone thinks this is going to make for more flying jobs they are wrong. Just because an airline stays in business doesn’t mean there’s more flying work. There are only X number of flying contracts out there. Which means you need X number of planes to do those flights and X number of pilots. For the unfortunate ones that might be laid off from either of the companies that might go under they would have the opportunity to go work for one of the remain companies that would be able to stay afloat as those remaining companies would now have a bigger piece of the contracts and thus could put more of their own planes back in the air.

Further, I doubt this would have led to Air Tindi going under, I can’t speak of GSH as I’m not a rotary guy. But Air Tindi is a good company with a good product. In a bankruptcy Air Tindi would be most likely have been sold intact as a complete asset. Easily bought up and remained in business possibly under a different name.

Every other airline in the north is now suffering further because we helped out DA. That’s not right, it’s not fair and it’s my tax dollars doing it.

The government isn’t going to see a dime of interest. The tax payers are going to be out at least 34 million and possibly more as now more companies will line up for handouts. DA has far more debt that assets so I have no idea how the govenrment thinks this loan is secure in any shape way or form.

DA won’t put one more plane in the air or hire one more pilot. In fact I would expect them to continue to down size. So what happens to those millions of dollars? Well the big CEOs get paid their salaries and bonuses and then they bail. Those big share holders get a bit of reprive to dump their stock. Which makes me wonder how many of the government fat cats that approved this loan had shares in DA. All this is, is a big parachute so the top brass can have just enough time to pad their pockets before this company finally collapses.

The unfortunate thing is that this will actually hurt the remaining aviation companies in the north and the end result could be more than just DA going under.

ARRRG Where is oversite! Where are the inquiries? So much of this stinks of fraud. Where the heck is the RCMP.

[NJ]

GSH already does a lion's share of their training here. They moved up a couple winters ago when YBW became a bit too busy for them to get their training done. The problem is that they have slowed the training here right down to basically nothing. So we get a flying school we already have that isn't doing anything anyway. It's all lip service.

[mag check]

The government isn’t going to see a dime of interest. The tax payers are going to be out at least 34 million and possibly more as now more companies will line up for handouts. DA has far more debt that assets so I have no idea how the govenrment thinks this loan is secure in any shape way or form.

Yes they owe alot more than they can cover with assets, but now that the gov is in it for 30 odd mil, they are sure to get first dibbs on the 40 odd mil in assets. Now this will come due 4 years from now, so those assets won't be worth that much but, I'm sure that they will be the first to the table as crediters.

[just curious]

Dicovery is a corporation. Shared are issued as general shares, which in theory increase in value and pay a dividend. But they also issued preferred shares which pay the preferred shareholder before anyone else.

The GNWT in the event of insolvency, is numerically way down the list, but before employees.

[Brown Bear]

does not like this thread. The grapes are sour.