Commercial Pilot

[Chuck Ellsworth]

As for the original question regarding a 50 hour float course. I would not spend the money. If you have 7 hours on floats or 50 hours on floats, you still have no hours on floats.

I know of two operations out here on the west coast that offer bush flying training and you can buy whatever time you may need or want.

Both of these operations are run by high time sea plane operators and the people doing the training are not puppy mill instructors.

Would that kind of training not make for a better qualified job applicant?

[C-GGGQ]

OK i give No IFR required. Just my opinion that any extra training can't hurt. (to be fair I was sitting shotgun as trainee/ observer that leg)

[1000 HP]

Hello All,

I am new to this forum. So hello to everyone on here.

I am training for my commercial License flight test. My long term goal is to be a bush pilot. All my training so far has been in a C150/C172.

For the pilots out there I have these questions - and would like to hear your response.

1. What should I do next in terms of licensing - would IFR and multi rating help?
2. Can someone recommend a good school in BC or AB to get a float rating
3. Where would I start looking for jobs in the bush flying industry.
4. Would anyone hire a pilot with 200 hrs of single engine time + 50 hrs of float rating time?
5. Does age (I know sounds odd) matter ie. being a 40 yr old pilot - am I at a disadvantage as compared to most pilots fresh out of school are in their early/late twenties?

Am sure many others have asked these questions before or have been in a similar situation. If there are any links or similar threads to this one, please point me to them.

Thanks everyone.

Ok, back to the original question, It all depends on what kind of bush flying you want to do. Floats, skis, king air in the arctic, dc-3 in yellowknife, ???

1. If you want to fly floats like me, get a multi (no IFR), because it gives you the option of Beech 18's and Twin Otters. If you want year-round work, and some possible stability, get the multi IFR now, because you won't be able to afford it later.
2. There used to be one in Kelowna, but I'm not sure if it is there anymore.
3. Try Red Lake, ON or Sioux Lookout, ON
4. Yes, especially with the 50 hours.
5. Your age is a disadvantage, because most operators now will want a young, pliable pup, that they can mold into what they think is the "ultimate pilot". That plus the fact that you will be using your back sometimes more than your brain in float flying. Don't let that scare you though. I'm over 40 and still move drums and plywood etc. Advil is my best friend

If you are interested in flying a 206 on floats, pm me. I think my buddy has the job filled for this year, but 2010 season might be open.

[1000 HP]

As for the original question regarding a 50 hour float course. I would not spend the money. If you have 7 hours on floats or 50 hours on floats, you still have no hours on floats.

Absolutely untrue

[iflyforpie]

As for the original question regarding a 50 hour float course. I would not spend the money. If you have 7 hours on floats or 50 hours on floats, you still have no hours on floats.

Absolutely untrue

It just means less dock time on average right?

[IDFR]

The 50 hour float course is just a money grab(with the exception of a couple). I have trained tons of new pilots with and without the 50 hours. Most at 50 hours just think they know more, it makes them even more dangerous. It is better to just find a good operator who will take you under his wing and teach you the ropes. Yes there are still a few out there. Do I think it makes you a better candidate for a job? No I don’t. But who am I to say, maybe the operators in the prairies or up north think 50 hours is a good start. I have done all my flying on the coast, if you showed up on our door with 0, 50, or 200 hours; it’s all the same 0000.00

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I have done all my flying on the coast, if you showed up on our door with 0, 50, or 200 hours; it’s all the same 0000.00

Then my idea of offering advanced training for sea plane pilots is not worth bothering with because when I got through with them they would still know zero anyhow so why bother.

I have trained tons of new pilots with and without the 50 hours. Most at 50 hours just think they know more, it makes them even more dangerous.

Maybe you could buy my Cub project off me and take over what I had planned on doing, or maybe you could get me up to speed so I would be good enough to train new sea plane pilots?

[Driving Rain]

I have done all my flying on the coast, if you showed up on our door with 0, 50, or 200 hours; it’s all the same 0000.00

So you started with 0000 hrs on the coast too. How come you could do it but in your opinon no one else can?

You sound like the elitist moron I meet on the Island a few years back. He told me my then 6000 hours of float time in Ontario, Quebec and NWT wasn't good enough because I didn't have "coast time". I tried to point out that all 3 of those places had coasts and I'd spent lots of time on them. He laughed and told me Lake Ontario didn't count.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Driving Rain I had a look at IDFR's posts and it seems he has spent his whole career flying floats on the west coast.

From what he said he started in 1992.

He posted this in Dec. of 2007:

I have flown on the North and Central Coast for my whole career, over 15 years now. I have definitely had a few scares, but I have never bent an airplane or came even close to dying.

I don't quite understand his opinion about getting training though because if he is correct it is a waste of time to send pilots to Flight Safety.

Maybe you and I have misunderstood what he is trying to say?

[IDFR]

I have done all my flying on the coast, if you showed up on our door with 0, 50, or 200 hours; it’s all the same 0000.00

So you started with 0000 hrs on the coast too. How come you could do it but in your opinon no one else can?

You sound like the elitist moron I meet on the Island a few years back. He told me my then 6000 hours of float time in Ontario, Quebec and NWT wasn't good enough because I didn't have "coast time". I tried to point out that all 3 of those places had coasts and I'd spent lots of time on them. He laughed and told me Lake Ontario didn't count.

Wow, you sound really bright DR. If you could read, you would have seen that nowhere in my post did I state that “ I could, but no one else can”.

What I said, was that I do not think paying for 50 hours of float flying makes you a better candidate for a job. Nor do I think that 100 hours makes that much difference either. Do I think low time float pilots should get there first job on the coast; Yes I do. I don’t think there could be a better place to work your first job. I think more operators should hire low time pilots here.

As for you thinking I sound like some moron you talked to a few years ago, well I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but I can guarantee you it was not me. If you had of called me and said you had 6000 hours, I would have invited you up, and if we were hiring, probably offered you a job.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

What I said, was that I do not think paying for 50 hours of float flying makes you a better candidate for a job. Nor do I think that 100 hours makes that much difference either. Do I think low time float pilots should get there first job on the coast; Yes I do. I don’t think there could be a better place to work your first job. I think more operators should hire low time pilots here.

Why do you think that getting training on a sea plane has no value?

Are you saying that a new sea plane pilot is better off teaching himself / herself rather than getting training from a high time sea plane pilot with real world experience?

[IDFR]

What I said, was that I do not think paying for 50 hours of float flying makes you a better candidate for a job. Nor do I think that 100 hours makes that much difference either. Do I think low time float pilots should get there first job on the coast; Yes I do. I don’t think there could be a better place to work your first job. I think more operators should hire low time pilots here.

Why do you think that getting training on a sea plane has no value?

Are you saying that a new sea plane pilot is better off teaching himself / herself rather than getting training from a high time sea plane pilot with real world experience?

I just think the majority of the people offering the 50 hour course don’t have the type of experience one should have to be teaching the course. As I mentioned earlier, I think you are far better off getting a job with an operator that is willing to take the time and show you the ropes. Yes there are still a few out there. So no I am not saying that a new seaplane pilot is better off teaching himself / herself.

And no . I am not saying you are not qualified to teach, and no I don’t want to buy your damn business and get you up to speed.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I just think the majority of the people offering the 50 hour course don’t have the type of experience one should have to be teaching the course.

We agree there.

As I mentioned earlier, I think you are far better off getting a job with an operator that is willing to take the time and show you the ropes.

The problem with that thinking is an employer does not have the time to teach them what a good sea plane instructor can in a well laid out course.

And no . I am not saying you are not qualified to teach, and no I don’t want to buy your damn business and get you up to speed.

Not to worry IDFR because first I no longer have a training business in operation so there is nothing I could sell you anyhow, except maybe my Cub project which I may never finish anyhow.

I sort of lost interest in finishing it now that I have a new Husky on Amphibs to fly.

My comment about you teaching me was tongue in cheek, as I was teaching sea plane pilots probably before you were born.

[1000 HP]

The 50 hour float course is just a money grab(with the exception of a couple). I have trained tons of new pilots with and without the 50 hours. Most at 50 hours just think they know more, it makes them even more dangerous. It is better to just find a good operator who will take you under his wing and teach you the ropes. Yes there are still a few out there. Do I think it makes you a better candidate for a job? No I don’t. But who am I to say, maybe the operators in the prairies or up north think 50 hours is a good start. I have done all my flying on the coast, if you showed up on our door with 0, 50, or 200 hours; it’s all the same 0000.00

50 hours float time is 43 hours more than seven. I did not mention a potential money grabbing course. I stated that 50 hours is definitely better than 7 or 0. A buddy of mine hires guys with 50 hours or more float time. 49 might qualify. 7 will not. Period. It's any insurance requirement. Giving a new guy a chance, and some proper training is a good thing. If . Ellesworth with tens of thousands of hours float time is willing to offer a course on float flying, I'm willing to sign up. It would not be a waste of time. Right now there is a severe shortage of high time Otter pilots. Why? Because neanderthal chief pilots are not willing to let a new guy in an train him properly so that he can advance up the line.

What outfit do you work for? Post it so nobody will apply.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

1000 HP. I doubt I will get any time to do any teaching in the next couple of years because I am involved in a new project that will take up most of my time.

But Randy Hanna is starting a new school for advanced sea plane training and he is hoping to keep his Beech 18 on floats for teaching multi engine sea plane ratings to foreign students.

I may help him out from time with the B18 training if he gets more flying on it than he can handle.....I will do that because I love the B18 on floats.

[IDFR]

The 50 hour float course is just a money grab(with the exception of a couple). I have trained tons of new pilots with and without the 50 hours. Most at 50 hours just think they know more, it makes them even more dangerous. It is better to just find a good operator who will take you under his wing and teach you the ropes. Yes there are still a few out there. Do I think it makes you a better candidate for a job? No I don’t. But who am I to say, maybe the operators in the prairies or up north think 50 hours is a good start. I have done all my flying on the coast, if you showed up on our door with 0, 50, or 200 hours; it’s all the same 0000.00

50 hours float time is 43 hours more than seven. I did not mention a potential money grabbing course. I stated that 50 hours is definitely better than 7 or 0. A buddy of mine hires guys with 50 hours or more float time. 49 might qualify. 7 will not. Period. It's any insurance requirement. Giving a new guy a chance, and some proper training is a good thing. If . Ellesworth with tens of thousands of hours float time is willing to offer a course on float flying, I'm willing to sign up. It would not be a waste of time. Right now there is a severe shortage of high time Otter pilots. Why? Because neanderthal chief pilots are not willing to let a new guy in an train him properly so that he can advance up the line.

What outfit do you work for? Post it so nobody will apply.

Wow you really don’t like anyone that disagrees with you do you. It’s just my opinion, or am I not allowed to have an opinion.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Why? Because neanderthal chief pilots are not willing to let a new guy in an train him properly so that he can advance up the line.

I have always been wondered why there are so many chief pilots that are like that, the only answer I can think of is they are insecure and paranoid that someone will advance and maybe take their job.

[tcraft]

You`re right ..

[Chuck Ellsworth]

You`re right ..

Yes and isn't is a sad statement about what aviation should really be?

For me I always wanted my FO's and all the other pilots to be better than me in case I someday needed someone to get us out of trouble.

Also I usually gave them my legs if they wanted to fly them, when we ferried the Cat from Jo-Berg, South Africa to Suffolk Virginia the only time I sat in the left seat was on the final landing because the crew insisted that I should be in that seat when we taxied in...there were four of us in the airplane from London England to Suffolk and I just stayed in the right seat and let the keeners fly the fucker because I'm smart enough to get someone else to do the work.

[IDFR]

Why? Because neanderthal chief pilots are not willing to let a new guy in an train him properly so that he can advance up the line.

I have already stated that I think more operators should hire low time pilots.

What outfit do you work for? Post it so nobody will apply.

What are you saying, that we should send them away and tell them they are not qualified because they do not have 50 hours of "real world flying".

[Cat Driver]

What are you saying, that we should send them away and tell them they are not qualified because they do not have 50 hours of "real world flying".

Why the bitterness about someone having had some good training?

[IDFR]

What are you saying, that we should send them away and tell them they are not qualified because they do not have 50 hours of "real world flying".

Why the bitterness about someone having had some good training?

Bitter, why would I be bitter about someone getting training? What I am getting from a few of the posts here, is that low time pilots should be hired, but that they should not be hired without a 50 hour float course. All that I am saying is that I do not think it is necessary. If they want to take the course, then take it. I really don’t care.

[Lost Lake]

Back to the IFR thing. I knew an AC cptn who flew a t craft with only a wind generator. Asked him why he didn't want fancier equipment. He said it was so he wouldn't be enticed into taking a vfr aircraft and flying it into IMC. Something about living long enough to retire.

Nunavik, summer 2004? DHC2 captain flying in the hills. Bad viz, winds etc. Fresh multi-IFR. Hey, I can fly IFR. Decided to fly into cloud to climb over the hills. I wonder if his last thought was "I wonder what these trees are doing up here!?",

Low time+IFR+wanting to show the right stuff= Big trouble.
Get your float rating, rent a plane if possible (preferably a 180) fly 100 hr. Get a job-hopefully!

[Driving Rain]

All that I am saying is that I do not think it is necessary. If they want to take the course, then take it. I really don’t care.

Well on this we agree. I got started with the minimum time.
I've told this storey before and it's worth mentioning again.

When I was new and green with a grand total of 6 hours on floats. I got a trip one evening to a short lake with glassey conditions. I told my operator I didn't feel right taking the trip because I hadn't done a for real glassey water landing. He sent the other pilot and had me do training with another high time guy. He gave me a good hour of glassy water landings.
Are there other operators out there that would take the time to do that? I would hope every operator would do the same. Maybe I'm fooling myself.

., this industry more than any I can think of eats it's young.

[Westward_Bound]

Ok, why are people still flying into things these days when my $300 VFR GPS shows terrain??!! It even shows green for "well below", yellow for "it's close", and red for "dead". Again, I'm new, but as long as I fly with that thing I can't see flying into stuff unless you're staring at your dick.