WTF!!!!!

[Jastapilot]

I recommend you call someone you know and get it emailed to you. That is allowed.

[Rotten Apple #1]

You guys who are so proudly stating that you are "in" really need to get onto the WJPA forum and read some of the other concerns out there. Never mind the financial aspects of it - This proposed agreement is a serious degradation to our current terms & conditions.

Pretty sure it was just me. I'm looking over my shoulder at SunWing as I vote...and I'm thinking on how WJ Vacations might fare in the battle. I'm also thinking about AC and their travails and how our lower cost structure might force their situation. Perhaps a 3 year deal might have been better. Don't know. Got a good life, and for me, I can live with it.

Cheers, all.

[Jastapilot]

If I had the choice I'd rather stay with the current deal.

[Rotten Apple #1]

JastaPilot, I think you do have a choice, as far as voting yes or no goes.

My wife, (loosely used term of course) tells me she has lowered her hourly rate (being a self employed person) to accomodate the economic realties of the day. That made it much easier for me to vote yes (done yesterday) to the current proposal. I might have liked a 3 year agreement, but that wasn't offered. Ergo, a yes vote from me.

If WestJet wasn't facing a slowing economy, and competition from SunWing, I might have voted 'No'.

If WestJet wasn't facing a competitor who was about to declare CCAA (Air Canada) again, I might have voted 'No'.

If I didn't have a mortgage and a family, I might have voted 'No'.

And finally, if I was really smart when it comes to responsible, corporate issues, I might have voted 'No' to the agreement proposal.

Problem is, I can't vote 'No' due to the above issues. I've read the responses to date on the WJPA forum and I'm unswayed. Times are tough; my 'yes' vote is my response.

[Jastapilot]

good for you! The beauty of a democratic vote.

[Flightlevels]

yup it's a first I agree with Tony! hehehe

I think they have worked hard on the proposal and it needs some more work imo. There are some good things but it's not good enough to sign for 5. Questionable for 3 too. After all what's the rush? I think a new survey on the current document would be a good starter after the assumed negative vote and if the current wjpa are too tired get some fresh faces to help them like abyl/bspeers etc.

[Jastapilot]

I don't understand the fear some of these guys have with a failed vote. It'll be business as usual the next day, and there will be a few people a little better educated as to what the pilots are willing to agree to, or better yet, what we refuse to give away. I don't know anyone, including myself that is delusional enough to think we'll get everything we ask for, as it is a give and take. But,(and I know it's arguable) IMO, this is more than a compromise, it's a couple steps backwards in a few areas. I think we can fix it so everyone's unhappy, not just the pilots! (that was an attempt a humor!)

[rudder]

5 Years?

There are only two circumstances that should warrant consideration of a 5 year term:

1. Your employer is bankrupt and holding a gun to your head (figuratively); or

2. The deal has such insane improvements in wages, working conditions, and benefits that only a moron would say no.

There is a door 3 - you are a non-union workforce trying to reach a deal outside of the protections of the Canada Labour Code as they apply to collective bargaining and without the professional expertise and support that comes with representation by a certified trade union.

So which is it?

[jamesel]

the professional expertise and support that comes with representation by a certified trade union.

[express]

Voted...and no I'm not telling tee hee.

[Huge Hammer]

There is a door 3 - you are a non-union workforce trying to reach a deal outside of the protections of the Canada Labour Code as they apply to collective bargaining and without the professional expertise and support that comes with representation by a certified trade union.
So which is it?

Canada Labor Code still offers protection whether there is a CBA like a union shop or not.

Unions exist as a business just like any other with union dues being the goal.

[mattedfred]

i was just wondering if your votes are binding since the WJPA isn't a certified trade union as far as i know? does each WJ pilot get 1 vote each? does the WJPA executive have veto? a previous poster referred to a pass of 75%. is this the case and if so then why is it more than 50% +1?

[CCR]

70% Yes vote with at least a 75% participation rate. There is no Executive mechanism to veto our vote either way.

[tonysoprano]

Tony I didn't say that we were getting screwed! In fact I think that we are being offered a very fair deal in these economic times!

I was not implying that you were getting screwed. Just that we know we will and offering the best to others. Not just WJ, but industry wide. Someone has to keep our dignity up. Hope it's you guys, for one. We will certainly try but are not in as good a position to do so. Now folks, I suggest you wait till it's a final offer, then vote. This rumor stuff is not good. The final document may be better than you think. I've been away these past days and don't know where you're at. Just think, it's not CCAA!! But at the same time, keep up the good standards of your past work. Once you lose it, you won't get it back.
Best of luck.

[mattedfred]

70% Yes vote with at least a 75% participation rate. There is no Executive mechanism to veto our vote either way.

so if less than 75% vote then it isn't ratified

and if the result of the vote, given the fact that the participation rate exceeds 75%, is less than 70% then it isn't ratified

thanks

[mattedfred]

Once you lose it, you won't get it back.
Best of luck.

+1!

[Amateur Turbines]

Sorry Tony I misread your post

Unfortunately this is the "final" document. I think that in the case of a no vote it will be business as usual until they can work something else out. Might be 2 weeks might be 2 years, who knows?

[tonysoprano]

No sweat.
Yup. No rush. One day at at a time lads.

[Dockjock]

Most profitable airline in NA. Cash in the bank. Expanding. Blah blah blah...and the offer is a de facto pay cut? I don't get it. Pretty ballsy.

ps. and don't take this as a pedantic comment because I certainly haven't been at AC long enough to really, really say this but- If your management is using Sunwing as justification for deteriorating T & C's, now you know what it feels like to be undercut. Still think "cheapest cost wins" is a great strategy (for employees, I mean)?

Good luck!

[truedude]

I have never understood why Westjetters feel the need for such secrecy. Its not like no one here has friends at Westjet or won't find out in due course. For those of you who don't believe this is a "suitable" place for people to air their concerns or just let off some steam give your head a shake. No airline is perfect and pilots like to complain its what we do. If some people are unhappy with what your company has offered, they are allowed to make their opinions known, publicly and privately. No one ever thought Westjet was perfect! You guys are one of the strongest airlines in North America, your working conditions should be improving, and no one should be signing a 5 year contract when things are bad, or else the next time you guys go to negotiate, you will be doing so in a recession again.

[ivanhoe]

Interesting timing...


Brent Jang
00:00 EDT Friday, March 27, 2009

WestJet Airlines Ltd. WJA chief executive officer Sean Durfy's total compensation rose in 2008, when he completed his first full year as the airline's CEO. Mr. Durfy saw his remuneration climb to $2.72-million in 2008, compared with $1.23-million in 2007. He became CEO at the Calgary-based carrier in September, 2007. Elsewhere in the transport sector, the total compensation package for Canadian National Railway Co. CEO Hunter Harrison was $13.35-million last year. Montreal-based CN said in its management information circular that it will hold its annual meeting April 21 in Calgary. CN's rival, Canadian Pacific Railway Ltd., is based in Calgary. CP CEO Fred Green's pay packet totalled $4.73-million in 2008. WJA (TSX) rose 4 cents to $11.71. CNR (TSX) rose $3.06 to $46.96. CP (TSX) rose $2.12 to $40.24.

[CanadaEH]

I have no problem with what Durfy is making. I also have no problem with what the other Executives are making. They have done a very good job at running this company and should be compensated as such.

[balfour]

I have no problem with what Durfy is making. I also have no problem with what the other Executives are making. They have done a very good job at running this company and should be compensated as such.

So should the Pilots!

[mattedfred]

"Mr. Durfy saw his remuneration climb to $2.72-million in 2008, compared with $1.23-million in 2007."

is the percentage increase in the WJPA proposal even close to this percentage increase?

[Airband]

is the percentage increase in the WJPA proposal even close to this percentage increase?

Would expect they better hope not. Represents a 26% decrease in monthly salary year over year.