AC driver busted for still being drunk, hours later!

[baron_dude]

Is it really that hard for some people not to have a drink the night before a flight?

[YHZChick]

The Brits have a legal limit for flying? So in other words, you could actually have a drink before flying?

4.6.1 When performing an aviation function or ancillary activity, other than acting as a
licensed maintenance engineer, the prescribed limit of alcohol referred to in
paragraph 4.6 is:
a) In the case of breath: 9 μg of alcohol in 100 ml.
b) In the case of blood: 20 mg of alcohol in 100 ml.
c) In the case of urine: 27 mg of alcohol in 100 ml.

A single pint will put you in the 20-50mg range, so to answer your question, no, you cannot have a beer before you fly.

The limits are in place to ensure you stopped drinking when you supposed to.

[tonysoprano]

Years ago an AC pilot boarded his flight "smelling" of alcohol. The service agent tried to nail him. It didn't work. Shit like this is serious. It doesn't belong here. Some posts are informative but most are just slander. What's the problem here? Worse case scenario, if the guy is found guilty, he will go to rehab. Hopefully will be able to finish a distinguished career filled with accomplishments. Best case, we'll all be a bit more nervous going through security at LHR. As f it ain't bad enough already.

[amraam]

Tony,

Stuff like this DOES belong here...as a member of a professional occupation, all pilots have the responsibility to ensure they are following the regulations of each country they are flying into or out off. There are many Customs / Laws / ETC of other countries that not all Canadians necessarily agree with, but it is still our responsibility to respect them when we are GUESTS of their countries.

I sincerely hope the rumour I've read on another forum is that he was found innocent through a blood test administered by an AC staff doc within the 4 hour window allowed by UK law is true.

The general public expects that when they step onto an AC flight, or any airline for that matter that ALL their pilots of been following the 'rules' and are compentent to be operating that flight regardless of where in the world they are.

And if a pilot can't go through a short layover without having a 'few drinks', I sure as hell don't want him (or her) flying any airplane that I step foot on.

amraam

[Old fella]

Many years ago(30) when I did my time in yyt, there was a place called Christians west end George Street and it was the hangout of the B727 AC crews( all three). Got to meet a few of them and quaff way too many lagers til the wee hours...... until it was time and they would all head off back the the then Newfoundland Hotel bottom of Kings Bridge road. Good bunch they were and it is fond memories to say the least

Unwritten rule - it was never asked what time you are heading out next day

[tonysoprano]

amraam.
Pretty difficult to stop any of this being published. The problem, as with any incident or accident, is the rumor and gossip mill. Not to mention the bash mill. Your first paragraph leads me to believe you have already accepted his guilt. No problem because in the end this guy works at a reputable place and his union will ensure he gets fairness.

[skycoupe]

For those interested in the UK press version


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... 396889.ece

[tonysoprano]

There really is no limit on this forum is there?

[Jaques Strappe]

I have known the accused in question for over 15 years and I can say that he is not a "boozer" or an alcoholic or binge drinker. He is an upstanding guy who may very well have been caught in a drag net. I have been out with him on layovers before and would actually describe him as somewhat of a tea totaler. Needless to say, I am stunned.

I certainly hope he is proven innocent but unfortunately, he has already been tried and convicted by the media. There are so many incidents where a pilot is accused of alcohol or drug use only to be found later that the technology used had actually picked up alcohol from a mouthwash or false drug indications from the consumption of a poppy seed bagel. Unfortunately, the true findings are never published.

I wish him well in his defense.

[_dwj_]

And just for anyone who isn't familiar with The Sun, it isn't exactly the cream of British journalism.

[Johnny767]

AC driver busted for still being drunk, hours later!

Keener Flier, you should be ashamed of the title. Even the completely misinformed British tabloids didn't use this title.

For all anyone knows, this guy is completely innocent.

Adding to the slag fest of a fellow Pilot, on an Aviation forum, class act!

[2R]

And just for anyone who isn't familiar with The Sun, it isn't exactly the cream of British journalism.

Page three is the only thing worth "reading "

First they came for the smokers and i said nothing
Then they came for the drinkers and i said nothing
When they come for the farters will they be anyone else left ?

Seriously though,some English real ales and scrumpy have wicked alcohol content and two pints can have a terrible effect ,on the bodies ability to process the alcohol .So much so that a fella should only have a glass of wine or bottled branded beer that is made under stricter brewing rules than some of the "homebrew type real ales" that are sold in some pubs.
And be careful of getting a pint from a friend that has three vodka's in it .A common college prank , football club stunt,stag night prank to make a fella think he cannot handle his beer .Three of those pints and you may find yourself naked and tied to a lampost covered in makeup with one eyebrow shaved and a policewoman laughing at the effect of the cold weather on your manhood

[valvelifter]

Honestly, I hear stuff about us wanting to form a union or professional association, and earning respect and this and that. We want to be regarded in society as true professionals, but meanwhile some will think it's OK to get hammered the night before a flight, even though you may be within legal or company limits. Some will think it is acceptable to show up at work with vodka breath. I don't and the majority of the flying public and pilots would probably agree.

And I interpret the AC or TC rule about consuming alcohol as having a drink - nothing more. You have to be reasonable with these things. If some people want to stretch it and say they could get drunk 12 hours before a flight and still legally make it, then there is a problem.

Let me tell you, I wouldn't feel too comfortable having a surgeon operating over me with alcohol on his breath...

[sepia]

Honestly, I hear stuff about us wanting to form a union or professional association, and earning respect and this and that. We want to be regarded in society as true professionals, but meanwhile some will think it's OK to get hammered the night before a flight, even though you may be within legal or company limits. Some will think it is acceptable to show up at work with vodka breath. I don't and the majority of the flying public and pilots would probably agree.

And I interpret the AC or TC rule about consuming alcohol as having a drink - nothing more. You have to be reasonable with these things. If some people want to stretch it and say they could get drunk 12 hours before a flight and still legally make it, then there is a problem.

Let me tell you, I wouldn't feel too comfortable having a surgeon operating over me with alcohol on his breath...

Valvelifer: Perhaps you should reread this thread. Not a single user has said it is okay to have 18 beers and then operate a flight 12hrs later. No one has said that it's okay to show up reeking of vodka. You'll also note that no one has said that the pilot in question had 18 beers, or showed up reeking of vodka. Your obviously not at this level of aviation yet, but the other pilots or flight attendants wouldn't let you even get on the hotel shuttle if that was the case.

Perhaps you should take a first step toward being a professional. Don't jump to conclusions based solely on very questionable reporting by a tabloid newspaper. I can't believe how quickly people are looking to vilify a fellow pilot. The Breathalyzer used in LHR has a 7% false positive rate. If the blood work clears him I hope you're first in line to apologize.

[pilotbzh]

a chocolate bar will cause a false positive on a clean subject

http://www.articlesbase.com/food-and-be ... 52613.html

eat lots of chocolates.....and keep the receits...

[valvelifter]

So you can imagine how 3 or 4 beers with dinner could leave you above that very low limit, even though you can't feel the slightest effects.

?

Let me tell you perhaps I am the wimp here but with 3 or 4 beers I wouldn't trust myself driving a car much less the big iron. Even after 8 hours.

The bottom line is that someone must have complained that he had alcohol on his breath. Based on that, the authorities did the right thing, even if the pilot was sober. Beter be safe than sorry.

Your obviously not at this level of aviation yet, but the other pilots or flight attendants wouldn't let you even get on the hotel shuttle if that was the case.

Let's stick to the subject here. This is not personal. It's an aviation forum where people speak their opinion. You can disagree but please don't try to put down other fellow pilots, regardless of their experience.

Don't jump to conclusions based solely on very questionable reporting by a tabloid newspaper.

I never mentioned the pilot in question in my post. I was referring to the idea in general.


I really hope for the pilot's sake that he will be cleared of all this but you have to keep in mind that people's safety is a top priority in this industry and flying with a suspected drunk pilot is not within my risk tolerance.

[ivanhoe]

Interesting story...



In my company a couple of years ago, there was a well publicised incident where one of the flight attendants went onto the flight deck and smelt alcohol. Rather than say anything, whilst taxiing out, she called her boyfriend on her mobile phone and asked what she should do (he was a police officer). He decided to call his mates and the aircraft was stopped from getting airborne by the police telling ATC to prevent it departing. The aircraft returned to the stand and boarded by several police officers who breathalised both pilots. Obviously, they were both under the limit.

The Flight attendant had smelt alcohol wipes used to clean the headset and those parts of the cockpit that harbours the most germs (i.e. most of it). When the captain was told by the police how he had been reported, he stood in front of the passengers and explained the whole story to them- and then said that because he was so wound up by the whole situation, he was getting off. They were offloaded, the cockpit crew got off and the cabin crew member concerned was suspended from duty.

[sepia]

Let me tell you perhaps I am the wimp here but with 3 or 4 beers I wouldn't trust myself driving a car much less the big iron. Even after 8 hours.

The AC limits are 12hrs. So the 8hr period isn't an issue here.

The bottom line is that someone must have complained that he had alcohol on his breath. Based on that, the authorities did the right thing, even if the pilot was sober. Beter be safe than sorry.

Yep, someone did complain. I'm not suggesting that someone not speak up if they think this is the case. What I am saying is that the AvCanada Kangaroo court has tried and is ready to execute this guy. No one knows what the blood test came back as. Don't you think it's crazy that someone could smell your mouth wash, or bubble gum and send you in for testing. Once you're in for testing you have a 1/10 chance of having your name dragged through the mud by a London tabloid due to false positives.

Your obviously not at this level of aviation yet, but the other pilots or flight attendants wouldn't let you even get on the hotel shuttle if that was the case.

Let's stick to the subject here. This is not personal. It's an aviation forum where people speak their opinion. You can disagree but please don't try to put down other fellow pilots, regardless of their experience.

I'm not making this personal. I'm just saying you obviously have no idea what it's like to work as part of a large crew. I Guarantee you that they'd never let you on airport property like that. Seriously, with a 330, you don't think one of the dozen crew members is gonna take offence to someone not safe?

[Martin Tamme]

Seriously, with a 330, you don't think one of the dozen crew members is gonna take offence to someone not safe?

For the record, it was a B777. There are many inaccuracies in the British tabloids. Don't even know where to begin.

[Airband]

Got AC a not so honourable mention on Jay Leno

[Old fella]

Seriously, with a 330, you don't think one of the dozen crew members is gonna take offence to someone not safe?

For the record, it was a B777. There are many inaccuracies in the British tabloids. Don't even know where to begin.

.

British Tabloids have spent umpteen years chasing the shenanigans of the current Royal Family so they have become infected with the deadly virus of sensationalism……… nuff said!!

[square]

Got AC a not so honourable mention on Jay Leno

Hehe can't blame Leno that was hilarious

Oh and as to the OP, I believe we have some kind of process in Canada (and the UK and the US if I'm not mistaken..) where people get accused of stuff and then we all talk about it and present our evidence, so that our conclusions come out at least half-baked, right?

Let's at least shoot for halfbaked conclusions. Sit tight for now.

[Topspin]

Is it just me or does someone else get the impression that most people feel that they can be falling down drunk, then wait eight hours, then go drive or fly. I belive if you are that drunk it's closer to 16 hrs for your body to loose the alchol.

I've felt it first hand, never again. Working on private, hour 30 or so. 18th birthday, out till 0100, up flying at 1000. Felt pretty much fine on the ground, got up, one circuit and came right back. Smart call on the instructors part, I wasn't really in any shape to be making that decision.

Glad I was able to learn that lesson without negative repercussion, and I still feel a degree of shame for it.

[Jaques Strappe]

Honestly, I hear stuff about us wanting to form a union or professional association, and earning respect and this and that. We want to be regarded in society as true professionals, but meanwhile some will think it's OK to get hammered the night before a flight, even though you may be within legal or company limits.

It really amazes me how some people, who claim to be professionals, just lap up what the media prints.

Comments about "getting hammered the night before" or "falling down drunk" are totally ignorant statements coming from people who know absolutely SFA about the situation.

There are so many reasons why a person may blow over the 0.009 limit. There are many over the counter medications for instance that can have enough of an effect on your liver to slow down the metabolizing of alcohol even by just a small amount. In theory, you could have had a beer with dinner 12 hours before hand and still register a reading of 0.009. Remember, the legal driving limit here is 0.08! 0.009 is essentially, zero. I would challenge anyone to have a beer or wine or Rum and 12 hours later blow a 0.009. Each and every person will metabolize that alcohol at a different rate. Then introduce perhaps a Tylenol for a headache or sore elbow and you easily, unwittingly, put yourself at risk. The rule itself may need to be changed as a result of this.

.001 over the legal limit requires an arrest. He was in no way stumbling drunk the night before his flight. To those of you who make uninformed, sensationalist statements on public forums regarding a situation you know nothing about, you are no better than the pathetic tabloids exploiting this situation for their own gain and should be ashamed for taking part in the defamation of a fellow professional without knowing any of the actual facts leading up to the incident. What is that saying? Innocent until proven guilty?

[yfly]

Unfortunately, we seem to enjoy convicting the accused publicly before they are afforded the luxury of defence. The presumption is often guilty until proven innocent. Welcome to a politically correct but wrong society.

I am not passing judgement either way on this one but to correct your post JC, the allowable limit for blood alcohol is .08, not .80. May have just been a typo on your part.

Like I said before, I hope it isn't so and that the individual is cleared. At the same time, let it be a lesson for all. Big brother is watching and maybe rightfully so. Liquor, layovers and lore make us all our own worst enemy.