Dual hours vs. being a passenger...

[modi13]

Thanks for all the responses. And thankyou especially to those that quoted sources and not just opinions. It seems Spokes' quote sums it up, no? If I'm rated, and the flight is for familiarization, etc. it can be logged as dual. I think it would be a valuable experience to sit right seat to a knowledgeable pilot, observing intently, asking questions, and absorbing technique. And it seemed to me that there could be a chance those hours could count for total time.

Cheers.

You're not getting PPC'd or PCC'd, you can't get type rated on the Caravan, and you're not working on a licence or rating, so you can't just log the time as "training". Forget all those situations and consider something much simpler: you just bought your own Caravan and you're getting checked out for insurance purposes. Would you sit in the right seat, or the left? How many dual training flights have you done where the instructor sat in the left seat and the instructor flew? Unless you're getting a PPC or PCC for a company that has an Ops Spec for a co-pilot on a single-pilot aircraft, it's not training, and you're not flying if you're not in the left seat.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Niss

CAR 401.69(d) states who can provide training for a VFR - OTT rating.

my 02 cents.

Toba wings

Initial type conversion training which is effectively what you want to log cannot be done on a revenue flight, particularly if paying passengers are being carried. Having this in your log book could get you, the PIC and the company into a world of regulatory hurt. Be very carefull of what is in your logbook when you give it to TC for the issue of a higher license, because they will check.

[iflyforpie]

Does VFR-OTT require an instructor or just a commercial pilot with IFR?

Only RPP, PPL, CPL, night rating, instructor rating and aerobatics require an Instructor Rating to teach.

A person who conducts training towards the issue of a VFR Over-the Top rating shall have a flight instructor rating for the category of aircraft used for the training.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... nizing.htm

I couldn't find the regs (too lazy) but it would appear you need an instructor...

[niss]

401.69(d) says the FI can recommend someone for the OTT, can the Instrument time be built with a Commercial IFR or does that have to be done dual with an instructor?

[Big Pistons Forever]

401.69(d) says the FI can recommend someone for the OTT, can the Instrument time be built with a Commercial IFR or does that have to be done dual with an instructor?

Iflyforpie has accurately quoted CAR 425.21(8) which mandates the requirement that instruction must be given by a CPl or higher with a valid flight instructor rating.
Therefore all of the 15 hrs of required instrument training must be done by an instructor, which is more to the point than CAR 401.69. However the 5 hours for your PPL and the 5 hours for the night rating counts so you only need 5 more. The only way instrument instruction from a CPL non instructor would count is if it qualified towards the issue of an Instrument rating {CAR 425 9 (B) i/ii} and that rating was in fact issued to you, in which case you would be deemed to meet the requirements for using the privalges of the VFR OTT rating {CAR 401.47 (B)}

[niss]

Thanksfor the clarification. Dear God what a gong show. I can buld instrument time toward an ifr with a cpl but towards ott needs an fi? Bizarro

[iflyforpie]

Thanksfor the clarification. Dear God what a gong show. I can buld instrument time toward an ifr with a cpl but towards ott needs an fi? Bizarro

For a few months, I was perhaps the only PPL in Canada with a Group 1 IFR who could not fly at night.

[niss]

Not wanting to sound argumentative, but can I not take another licensed PPL for safety and throw the goggles on while PIC to practice instrument?

[hairdo]

Not wanting to sound argumentative, but can I not take another licensed PPL for safety and throw the goggles on while PIC to practice instrument?

Practice, sure (as long as both of you are licensed)! Log it as simulated instrument time, not sure on that. I can't think of the CARs reference right now that would confirm or deny the logging of that time.

[Big Pistons Forever]

You can put anything you want to into your logbook the only issue comes if you want to use the time towards a higher licence or to prove currency (like the 6 & 6 in 6 for maintaining an IFR rating). With specific respect to logging simulated IFR time (hood time), unless you allready hold an IFR rating or the hood time is logged while you were being instructed by a qualified individual, it is meaningless to anyone but you. My only caution is if you are a PPL aiming towards higher licences than I would recommend you log only time which unambiguosly can be used to qualify for higher licenses and ratings. The reason for this is TC will be reviewing your personal log book when you make the applications. The cleaner it is the faster your licenses will be processed. If TC person has to wade through a bunch of non qualifying extraneous time than they are not going to be very happy.

[Cisbour]

Another question for u guys...I'm looking forward to begin a float endorsement with a friend that has his commercial along with 1000 hours on floats..He's not a flight instructor but has the right according to TC to provide me with the training on his floatplane for the endorsement. So I'll be logging some dual time for the endorsement, but does he has the right to log some PIC time since he's not a FI ?

[Tim]

if he's not PIC of the a/c who is??

[Ralliart]

Niss aren't you going through training? You should know how to look up something simple like this in the CARs.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regse ... htm#425_21

425.21 Qualifications of Flight Instructors

(8) A person who conducts flight training toward the issuance of a VFR Over-the-Top rating shall have a flight instructor rating for the category of aircraft used for the training.

[niss]

Aren't we all training?

But to your point, I did check the CARS and I missed that I did however see that the instructor may reccomend someone for OTT and that to get OTT you must have so many hrs instrument, but your link is the first one I saw saying who may give those hrs.

[Cougar]

Wow.

I'd write a reply to this, but I need to run out and buy some logbooks so I can start jotting down everything I've ever sat in, observed closely on, and asked intelligent questions about.

This is gonna be AWESOME. Space shuttle and SR-71, here I come....