Commissioner Braidwood destroys RCMP & Tasers

[...]

tellyourkidstogetarealjob...I read your rebuttal.

I think whether if we are cops with tasers, pilots with bigger and bigger flight bags, hairdressers with career insuarance policies, or the guy selling "ganishkabob's" on the street corner for a living in which English is NOT his 1st language...we are ALL regulated to death.

I think we can agree on that.

I think that regardless of how you feel about law enforcement in this nation that there have been too many abuses of Tasers by our law enforcement establishment. Better guidelines are long overdue for this piece of equipment.

Actually in my humble opinion "Mostly Harmless", the abuses any one person comits to another person in ANY form, is just a sad, sad fact of life. My "doors of perception" on life have opened in the last few years...and more so in the last few months. Whether if it's a cop tasering another person without just/reasonable cause....OR....a fellow colleague in this industry raising false testimony against another colleague for whatever emtpy personal gain they seem to want to achieve. I judge not. I find it ALL fascination even IF it's against me.

To close the loop, I don't really care about the "taser" issue...everytime I post on here I'm always interested in what argument could have been raised if any regarding human decency. Although I raise it in a very "avant garde" way to 'charge' the masses, I make no apologies on the manner how I do it.

People are fascinating creatures to observe. Those that know me...are those I let in. Those that I don't let in...are wanting to get in. For every 100 positive people that are in a person's life...there's always 1 screaming on the sidelines raising false testimonies looking for attention. I'm not sure why I went off on a tangent here ....

...however, I did enjoy reading your reply on the subject matter...because you've raised a valid arguement

[Mostly Harmless]

... the abuses any one person comits to another person in ANY form, is just a sad, sad fact of life. My "doors of perception" on life have opened in the last few years...and more so in the last few months. Whether if it's a cop tasering another person without just/reasonable cause....OR....a fellow colleague in this industry raising false testimony against another colleague for whatever emtpy personal gain they seem to want to achieve. I judge not. I find it ALL fascination.

To close the loop, I don't really care about the "taser" issue...everytime I post on here I'm always interested in what argument could have been raised if any regarding human decency. Although I do it in a very "avant garde" way, I make no apologies on the manner how I do it.

Amen brother. I wish more people thought the same way.

[SeptRepair]

From the Cambridge dictionary:

Definition
destroy Show phonetics
verb [T]
1 to damage something so badly that it does not exist or cannot be used

Destroying is the word you used. YOU are the one who bolded it, not me.

Here's another definition for you, from the telly dictionary:

Moron (noun):

Individual who gets online and, hiding behind anonymity, throws insults and abuse around to people he/she wouldn't normally have the guts to say 'boo' to.

I think the description fits you to a tee.

Um, I think it was clearly established a "moron" is someone who forgets to select gear down on landing.

[Changes in Latitudes]

I plan on dying in the arms of a 20 year old hooker.

Hookers rarely hug, at least in my experience.

[Spokes]

I plan on dying in the arms of a 20 year old hooker.

Hookers rarely hug, at least in my experience.

good point, take out the words 'the arms of'

[Spokes]

hmmm, destruction of property, resisting arrest.....

[Wilbur]

Cpl ATC,

Do you ever actually read any of the reports relating to the incidents you spout off about, or just do you just go with the 30 second sound bites on the news and your own imagination?

Braidwood's initial report has not dealt with Dziekanski's tasering; it deals with the policies regarding taser use in general. The report relating to the actual Dziekanski incident will not be finished and released until well into the fall.

His initial report really only has one significant recommendation, and that is to raise the taser one step from being a force option for active resistance to being an option for assaultive behaviour. He said it should be prohibitted from use in enforcing provincial and municipal statutes, and other summary offences.

He ruled out a ban on tasers, and also did not agree on the RCMP Complaint Commission recommendation on limiting use of tasers to cops at a rank of corporal or above or 5 years experience. He said law enforcement agencies should determine for themselves who they want to issue tasers to, as long as they train them first.

He admonished former BC Solicitor General, Ujjal Dosanjh, on the subject of "usage creep." Dosanjh tried playing politics and blaming the police for using the taser in ways he didn't intend when he first approved it's introduction as SG. Braidwood highlighted that under the Police Act, Dosanjh had legislative authority and responsibility for enacting policies on training and useage of the device, but failed to do so. Simply put, blame for the current hodge podge of training standards, useage policies and "creep" lies primarily at the feet of Dosanjh himself, and to lesser degrees subsequent Solicitors General.

Most of his recommendations relate to research and testing of the device, training standards and methods, use reporting, and medical services for those it's used on.

He recommended a specific one week crisis intervention training program for police, which in practicable terms means nothing more than some enhancements to the training they already recieve in this area.

So how will Braidwood's main recommendation play out in real life? Well, he provides some examples. A fair jumper on the skytrain who tries to walk away from a transit cop could not be tasered. But, the cop can still arrest that fair jumper, and if the fair jumper resists arrest in a way that could cause harm to the cop or anyone else he becomes fair game for being tasered because he is then committing the indictable offence of assault on top of fair jumping.

There is a reason the current SG, a carrer police officer, and every provincial law enforcement agency immediately endorsed Braidwood's recommendations. They all make good sense, provide for uniform standards of training and use, clarify the circumstances in which use may occur, and do not unduly raise where the device is placed as a force option. I predict the RCMP will also mostly, or entirely, fall in line as well once the report works its way through their national bureaucracy.

[AEROBAT]

It wasn't the tazer that killed the Polish guy, it was one guy kneeling on his neck and the other guy kneeling on his back, after he was handcuffed. Personally I think tazers are better than bullets in many circumstances.

Look at the uproar when some Canadian in Mexico dies under wierd conditions, usually stoned or drunk, yet when police are caught on tape going way over the line here in Canada everyone is trying to rationalize it or blame an inanimate object like a tazer. The guys acted like goons then tried to intimidate the fellow that took the video. I have seen bouncers in a bar that acted more professional.

[niss]

Is it worth noting that other victims of multiple taser bursts have experienced cardiac arrest and/or respiratory failure.

Is it also worth noting that other victims of multiple taser bursts had no adverse effects afterward?

Or does that support your opinion?

[AEROBAT]

I believe tasers should still be issued to police. What happened in Vancouver cannot be blamed on an inanimate object. The guys using the weapon were at fault. To remove a usefull tool because of the irresponsible actions of people is a knee jerk reaction.

Should Piper Malibu's be banned because some guy who flies 4 hours a month augers in when his auto pilot craps out? Of course not. Two days ago I heard a woman on the radio whining about "unsafe" airplanes and she directly mentioned the turbine Malibu. Same line of convoluted logic.

[niss]

Same line of convoluted logic.

Don't let logic get in the way of fear mongering and finger wagging.


Bad RCMP! BAD!

[BoostedNihilist]

Is it also worth noting that other victims of multiple taser bursts had no adverse effects afterward?

Or does that support your opinion?

nuclear weapons detonated underwater do no harm to heroshima.. so does this mean that nukes are ok?

Or does that support your opinion?

Should Piper Malibu's be banned because some guy who flies 4 hours a month augers in when his auto pilot craps out? Of course not. Two days ago I heard a woman on the radio whining about "unsafe" airplanes and she directly mentioned the turbine Malibu. Same line of convoluted logic.

Piper malibus are easy to pick on because they have a pretty significant history of in flight break ups... Even piper issued ADs and added training due to the early generation breakups.. so banned no, however your argument is a bit simplistic, as even the manufacturer has all but admitted there are problems...

[Wilbur]

Do you ever actually consider anything other than your own hyperbole? You titled this thread "Braidwood destroys RCMP and Tasers," but when I read through his recommendations I have a very difficult time seeing how any lucid person would reach your conclusion. He moved them up one level on the force options spectrum and said they shouldn't be used more than once unless the cop has reason to think it will work better the second time. Instead of multiple taser jolts, he says try once and if it doesn't work change to other methods. At the force level he is placing the taser, that would mean switching to baton strikes, closed hand strikes, etc. His other recommendations are little more than house keeping items around policy and training. Is there something else causing you to see this report as some great victory for you?

As for me thinking cops can do no wrong, again you believe your own opinion over fact. I have quite clearly expressed that Robinson's conduct following his dangerous driving causing death incident was unacceptable for a police Cpl and that he should be fired, regardless of the outcome of his criminal trial. If found guilty, he should go to gaol. I've also expressed my displeasure with the courts for not heeding the Crown's request for gaol time for the West Van cop recently sentenced for assault. Make no mistake, he should also now be fired. The mere fact I don't buy into your lynch mob mentality the moment a complaint is made doesn't mean anything except that I prefer to wait for all the facts to come out before making up my mind. That may appear to you as blind support for the police, but that is only a function of your own black and white, all or nothing approach to these issues.

[niss]

Blah Blah Blah, I am a douche on a crusade who can't formulate a position not based on a strawman argument.

[grimey]

It wasn't the tazer that killed the Polish guy

That is false, or speculative at best, although it is safe to say the RCMP's cowardly actions killed him one way or another. They have not conclusively determined his cause of death, which is what has permitted the RCMP to spend almost two years denying any culpability.

So then you're admitting that your entire crusade is based on false evidence, or is speculative at best? You can't have it both ways. Either the cause is known (tasers, knees, etc), or it hasn't been conclusively determined. It can't be both.

[AEROBAT]

They never did drug test the mounties yet they tried to say the Polish guy was an alchoholic. Many industries in Canada require a drug test of all people involved when there is a fatality.

[crazy_aviator]

perhaps next on the list of "secret societies " is the hospital profession and all the internal cover-ups and hidden malpractices which go unpunished and rectified because of the "old boys club"
down there on the list is the aviation profession ,,,in maintenance and in flying ,,,cover-ups, incompetant pilots pushed through the system ,, deceipt, lies, old boys club !!!

[crazy_aviator]

Folks here seem to be forgetting that the collective memory of the populace is quite short,,drag something on long enough and you can pretty well sweep the untidy bits under the rug !