High Speed Taxi

[tonysoprano]

This is a friggin' mess. I'm disgusted with myself for actually reading some of it...especially TS's childish remarks. The type of airplane you fly isn't what makes you a real man...it's how fast you can skate....

Can you quote the childish remarks? I'm curious.

Quick summary :
An AC pilot starts a thread telling a WJ crew they were too fast on the RAMP, not even on a taxiway yet. Slow down is the message, that's it!!
Followed by a WJ guy responding he "saw" two Jazz planes going into a cell. Then another making remarks about a Jazz plane going too slow at "two knots". Totally unrelated and obviously a retaliatory attitude. Is this not childish? By the end of the thread we've got a WJ kid practically in tears cause he's tired of the WJ bashing by AC and "government handouts" which is total bullshit and he's gone for good. Is that not childish? What ever happened to the slow down on the ramp thread? Tell ya what, have a look at the AC site and you will find numerous WJetters pasting newspaper articles about AC's problems. What's that all about? Is that not childish? I'm trying real hard not to draw to any conclusions about WJ based on what I see on this forum. Gotta say it's not easy these days.

The type of airplane I fly? Is that the problem? I have to watch myself because mine is bigger than yours? Nothing to do with it buddy. Grow up. Who's childish here?

[Flying Nutcracker]

Can you quote the childish remarks? I'm curious.

Quick summary :
An AC pilot starts a thread telling a WJ crew they were too fast on the RAMP, not even on a taxiway yet. Slow down is the message, that's it!!
Followed by a WJ guy responding he "saw" two Jazz planes going into a cell. Then another making remarks about a Jazz plane going too slow at "two knots". Totally unrelated and obviously a retaliatory attitude. Is this not childish? By the end of the thread we've got a WJ kid practically in tears cause he's tired of the WJ bashing by AC and "government handouts" which is total bullshit and he's gone for good. Is that not childish? What ever happened to the slow down on the ramp thread? Tell ya what, have a look at the AC site and you will find numerous WJetters pasting newspaper articles about AC's problems. What's that all about? Is that not childish? I'm trying real hard not to draw to any conclusions about WJ based on what I see on this forum. Gotta say it's not easy these days.

The type of airplane I fly? Is that the problem? I have to watch myself because mine is bigger than yours? Nothing to do with it buddy. Grow up. Who's childish here?

That sounds just like my wife!!! Different content, but just the way she would argue any case!

It's always ME that is the problem!

I've learned to ignore it! Just leave it alone... same as with this forum. You take what is served and walk slowly into your secret corner where you can live in the knowledge that it's not just me that has issues...

[tonysoprano]

Yeah, I hear ya. Definite similarities. I think sometimes it's best not to get into it in the first place and just go in that little corner, with a beer.

[Flying Nutcracker]

[Old fella]

WJ and AC at it again, I see. Ya should have been around when Eastern Provincial Airlines (EPA) and Air Canada were at it in the Maritimes many moons ago. To bad there was no such thing as" forums/chat lines" then, would have been interesting to say the least. Unless you consider that famous YYT establishment where all crews frequented.

Nothing used to piss off EPA more, that to be held up at the button in YYT due wake turbulence separation from departing AC L1011, amongst other things. Those days were good as a yuck, yuck concert hearing all the snid bits over the frequencies. You guys/gals don’t know what you missed!!!!

[stickontheice]

You think you AC guys would show a little more gratitude toward the hard working tax paying WJ crews. Our government had to lend you $600 million to stay afloat. And since the likelihood of you paying back the loan is about the same likelihood that you pay your NavCanada bills on time we're all going to have our taxes raised. All this to line your pension pockets. Your flight crews should be shaking every single person hand when they're boarding the airplane and thanking them for the bailout. Maybe after taking the time to show proper gratitude to your guests you'll pick up the taxi speed a bit.

[Jastapilot]

Jast.

Really, it happened.

Really? Wow. Like did the little dash 8 really survive?? Unbelievable. Maybe it was just a baby thunderstorm. Like did it have lightening and all that? Amazing anyone survived this.
These threads are getting sillier by the day.

They were both RJ's. Jazz flies jets too, Mr 767 FO. The point is they could have diverted 2 miles out of their way but chose to fly through a CB.

[tonysoprano]

You think you AC guys would show a little more gratitude toward the hard working tax paying WJ crews. Our government had to lend you $600 million to stay afloat. And since the likelihood of you paying back the loan is about the same likelihood that you pay your NavCanada bills on time we're all going to have our taxes raised. All this to line your pension pockets. Your flight crews should be shaking every single person hand when they're boarding the airplane and thanking them for the bailout. Maybe after taking the time to show proper gratitude to your guests you'll pick up the taxi speed a bit.

I don't know why I'm doing this but here goes. Stick. First of all the government LOAN is not even half the amount you claim. Second of all, not quite sure about the NavCanada thing but I call you tell that if not for Canada's largest airline, NavCan fees would be quite a bit higher. We line the pockets of NavCan more than any other airline in this country. My pension has nothing to do with NavCan. And lastly, I think you're drawing to too many conclusions too quickly. Perhaps if you stepped off that high horse for a moment and took a little more time to get the facts, you might think a little differently. But then again, I know exactly what I'm dealing with here.

[rigpiggy]

Personally, I liked the old YVR ATC parties at PVI. Always good for a few fistfights. Those were the days

[wrc]

WJ and AC at it again, I see. Ya should have been around when Eastern Provincial Airlines (EPA) and Air Canada were at it in the Maritimes many moons ago. To bad there was no such thing as" forums/chat lines" then, would have been interesting to say the least. Unless you consider that famous YYT establishment where all crews frequented.

Nothing used to piss off EPA more, that to be held up at the button in YYT due wake turbulence separation from departing AC L1011, amongst other things. Those days were good as a yuck, yuck concert hearing all the snide bits over the frequencies. You guys/gals don’t know what you missed!!!!

Yeah, I also recall some fun between PWA & Air Canada, especially when the latter tried their short lived DC-9 thing in YXD. Hey, now you all get to fly together and are BFFs!

In all honesty, this stuff gets a bit over the top. I'm sure there are plenty of AC & WJ pilots that taxi too slow and too fast and I'm sure they all have their reasons.

[Jastapilot]

Speaking of YVR, I love their latest ATIS.

[sarg]

You think you AC guys would show a little more gratitude toward the hard working tax paying WJ crews. Our government had to lend you $600 million to stay afloat. And since the likelihood of you paying back the loan is about the same likelihood that you pay your NavCanada bills on time we're all going to have our taxes raised. All this to line your pension pockets. Your flight crews should be shaking every single person hand when they're boarding the airplane and thanking them for the bailout. Maybe after taking the time to show proper gratitude to your guests you'll pick up the taxi speed a bit.

I don't know why I'm doing this but here goes. Stick. First of all the government LOAN is not even half the amount you claim. Second of all, not quite sure about the NavCanada thing but I call you tell that if not for Canada's largest airline, NavCan fees would be quite a bit higher. We line the pockets of NavCan more than any other airline in this country. My pension has nothing to do with NavCan. And lastly, I think you're drawing to too many conclusions too quickly. Perhaps if you stepped off that high horse for a moment and took a little more time to get the facts, you might think a little differently. But then again, I know exactly what I'm dealing with here.

You're right Tony it's 41%, plus the changes to the pension regulations. If you don't like it here quit spending time here.

All told, Ottawa is providing $250-million, or 41%, toward a $600-million facility the airline can draw on as it attempts to operate through the economic slowdown without filing for bankruptcy protection. Of that amount, $150-million is from Export Development Canada, which is participating due to new powers it was granted in the past budget to participate in the domestic financing sphere.
Link to the full article'

http://www.canada.com/news/story.html?id=1847169[url][/url]

[A330]

I have to say a friend who left WJ for various reasons years ago, tells one of many stories. One was of a flight with a young WJ captain taxing about 40kts. He turns to the young captain, "are we on fire?", to the reply of the blue collar clone, "two words for ya buddy...profit share".

I know there's some very good WJ pilots out there but maybe slowing it down a little would be prudent.

[flying4dollars]

fellas, AC pilots, WJ pilots, CMA pilots, Westwind pilots, Sunwest pilots, Cathay pilots etc...have all taxii'd their jets, turboprops, pistons etc faster than normal before..

Relax, there's so much animosity between certain companies it amazes me. I'd kill to fly for either one of them right now but I'm not yet in the position to do so, until then, prove to guys like me why I should work for your company and try not to do it by bashing each other.

/hasafeelingthispostwillgetshatonbutheywhatthehell

[jjj]

A330, I believe it.

Unfortunately that ass does not include safety risks and wear and tear in his profit share calculations.

Luckily guys like that are a tiny group.

[stickontheice]

I've only been here for a few years but I haven't flown with a Captain yet that puts profit share before safety. I've flown with captains that are happy when they get profit share, or contribute to share program, and are generally happy they work at a company with a proven business model.

17th consecutive profitable quarter, making money in arguably the worst recession in 20 years, beat the analysts by almost double and expanding the network doing it. I'm happy to be working here too.

Good to see the Forex gamble covered the operating loss for you guys. When are you going to repay the taxpayers?

[tonysoprano]

Sarg.

You're right Tony it's 41%, plus the changes to the pension regulations. If you don't like it here quit spending time here.

I'd love to Sarg but who's going to clean up the bullshit that's thrown around here? Gottta keep you honest. So, BTW, $250M is not 41% of $1B and changes to the regulations is not a taxpayer responsibility. That kind of bullshit is just going to keep me on here longer. You are not going to get rid of me pulling that shit, Hoss.

Good to see the Forex gamble covered the operating loss for you guys. When are you going to repay the taxpayers?

First installment comes out Q1 2010 ($30M). I'd say this quarter's profits will pay for one year's loan paybacks. Funny cause that very same Forex helped us lose a pile of money just recently. And hey, good to see your boss finally realizes he's gotta put the brakes on too. I was getting a little worried he was overdosing on the koolaid but I guess Clive kicked his ass a bit.
So anyway, is taxing on a ramp at high speed the right thing to do?

[Legacy]

tony, it's getting old now.

[tonysoprano]

Alot of things are getting old around here.

[CCR]

Back to the original point of this thread. How fast was the WJ aircraft going? 25 kts max is SOP. 20kts recommended for long distances. As long as it's safe, I always taxi at 20-25 and adjust my momentum to make my corners. Am I a unsafe pilot?

[tonysoprano]

He was on the ramp area. Not on the taxiway yet. Would you do 20 kts in that area? Anyway, it's probably just an isolated incident. It's been a slice.

[The Raven]

Wow, I really opened up a can of worms by starting this thread.

Just to be clear, the Westjet aircraft was taxiing on the apron (Lane 5 between Terminal 3 and Terminal 1 to be exact). While I obviously don't know the exact speed of the aircraft, I can estimate that it was taxiing approximately 4 times faster than any other aircraft taxis in that area. Most aircraft taxi at a speed of about 5 knots while on the apron...I would guess this cowboy was doing 20 knots.

Had this aircraft been on a straight taxiway, with no service vehicles around, it would have been a suitable speed. Not on a crowded apron though.

I know that 99% of Westjet pilots taxi at an appropriate speed. This one did not...hence the term 'Cowboy'.

[sarg]

Sarg.

You're right Tony it's 41%, plus the changes to the pension regulations. If you don't like it here quit spending time here.

I'd love to Sarg but who's going to clean up the bullshit that's thrown around here? Gottta keep you honest. So, BTW, $250M is not 41% of $1B and changes to the regulations is not a taxpayer responsibility. That kind of bullshit is just going to keep me on here longer. You are not going to get rid of me pulling that shit, Hoss.

Good to see the Forex gamble covered the operating loss for you guys. When are you going to repay the taxpayers?

First installment comes out Q1 2010 ($30M). I'd say this quarter's profits will pay for one year's loan paybacks. Funny cause that very same Forex helped us lose a pile of money just recently. And hey, good to see your boss finally realizes he's gotta put the brakes on too. I was getting a little worried he was overdosing on the koolaid but I guess Clive kicked his ass a bit.
So anyway, is taxing on a ramp at high speed the right thing to do?

Now Tony, who's trying to spread the bullshit? The $1B is accounting fiction pure and simple. There's $600M in new money and $400M and change in money moved from one column to another. It brakes down as follows:
$600M - new money (41.6% government supplied)
$122M - 777 sales and leaseback (previously money that showed as an asset)
$220M - returned deposit (again an asset on the books)
$ 75M - defered payment ( not even money, just a postponed liablity)

Possible, if conditions meet:
$100M - new money, which would reduce the government position to 35.7%

The new money comes at a rate of a "minimum of 12.75%". I also see the unions coming after the government to make good the pensions if the whole thing goes sideways. Time and events will prove or disprove my thoughts on the pension issue, honestly hoping that it never becomes an issue.

Link to where the money numbers came from.
http://www.680news.com/news/business/mo ... b291227317

[Mustard]

Well there you have it. WJ was taxiing fast because of AC's loans. End of discussion.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Well there you have it. WJ was taxiing fast because of AC's loans. End of discussion.

Let us never forget this gem.

Amen.