TC's definition of X-Country?

[Hedley]

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[gustind]

Doesn't XC consist of any flight where you go at least 25 nm away from the departure airport?

Transport told me in 2001 every flight to the Claremont practice area from CYTZ could be logged as cross-country.

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[Hedley]

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[CelBatrin]

XC time in the circuit at 'unfamiliar' airports here I come!

I expect that XC will be more specifically defined in the near future (although it could result in some implications).
The situation right now is a bit ridiculous.

[Hedley]

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[CelBatrin]

The situation right now is a bit ridiculous.

Seems to me that more and more pilots in training are becoming aware of this lack of definition.
Compared to even 3 years ago.
The flight schools are at a loss, and I can see a push come from there.

Perhaps expect wasn't the right word. I should have said that I wouldn't be surprised if XC will be more specifically defined in the near future

[Spokes]

Just a little insight ...

First of all, the AIM is not regulatory. For example,
the AIM might say that you should wear your rubber
boots if it's raining outside, and it might be a good
idea, but Transport cannot charge you with not wearing
your rubber boots if it's raining outside, because the
AIM is not law. Get it?

Onto the CARs. The CARs tell you what you CANNOT
do. If you do something that the CARs specifically
say you CANNOT do, it is reasonable to expect to
be charged.

So, the way it works is that unless it is specifically
prohibited by the CARs, it is therefore permitted,
modulo the infamous CAR 602.01 (one size fits all).

Executive Summary: since the CARs are mute on
the subject of cross-country, log whatever you personally
think is reasonable for x/c time.

For example, you might be used to a little airport
with one short runway, and you might travel to
a large airport with miles and miles of taxiways.

You might choose to log the taxi time at the large
airport as x/c. You are permitted to, under the
CARs.

This is all true. One thing to keep in mind however, if in the AIM it says that you shall wear rubber boots on a rainy day, then you can take it that in the CARS it says so. Shall in the AIM cross references to somewhere in CARS.

x-c on a long taxi- I love it.

[MDT]

Under the old ANO's the cross country definition was beyond 25 nm. Unfortunatley, that definition did not transfer over to the CARS. That being said, 25nm is a good rule of thumb. As for the Quebec region not accepting touch and goes. The requirement for separate legs on the cross country is in the CARS Standard for the PPL and CPL licence requirements; which specify a landing (2 to 3 depending on the licence and distance). This information should have been included in the program outline that the school is required to provide a student at the beginning of their training. Having just vetted a CPL licence application it does appear that anyone (instructor or student) are reading, understanding or monitoring the finer details of the licencing requirements. It's all there in black and white, it just takes a little effort.

Cheerio

[DanWEC]

Why is this so ambiguous? Why isn't there a clear definition in the CARS as to what defines an XC flight? You would think with things like requirements for hour building being so important and accountable, that the definition would be more straightforward.

I am building up xc time for an instrument rating. Been flying 1-2 hours every day day doing tng's at airports 50 nm away. After recent discussions I have been told slightly different things by EVERYONE as to what constitutes an XC flight. Map reading, 25nm away, different airport, TNG, etc etc.

My impression was always that of a tng at another airport 25nm using nav skills. But I have recent been made aware that the TNG isn't technically necessary. With that being the case, I have at least 10-15 hours that I could re-allocate in my log book to present an XC flight; 40-50 nm away, sight seeing, then back, (not landing at another field.)

Can/should I redo these logbook entries (making an ink smudge of my book of course) to make them xc flights? That could save me almost 2 grand in time building to get to instrument rating eligibility (50 hour xc)

Thanks.

Dan

[AMM]

Hell, even the transit time to/from the training area can be counted as XC. There's no minimum distance or TNGs required. The TC search isn't working otherwise I'd post a link.

Do you fly with Island Air or Canadian Flyers? If its the latter, I hope you don't believe their statement about being interviewed by an airline in 9 months (starting from zero time).

[Dagwood]

If you can get someone (CFI at the FTU?) to certify your logbook that the changes are true (the original entries were incomplete) then go ahead and save yourself some $$$. It might cost you a case of beer though

(Maybe the certify thing is unnecessary... I'd change it anyway since I certify every page where it says to sign)

[BingBong]

XC time requires you to land at an aerodrome SEPARATE from your point of departure. The whole 25 mile rule does not apply to XC time....but distance req'd to file a flight plan

[metal]

XC time requires you to land at an aerodrome SEPARATE from your point of departure. The whole 25 mile rule does not apply to XC time....but distance req'd to file a flight plan

Can you quote this from somewhere?

[trampbike]

Such kind of rule exists for the long XC that need to be done for licensing purpose, like the 150nm, 2 full stops needed for the PPL. For the rest of the XC time, pretty sure now that Hedley was totally right.

Still seems kind of weird that XC is not clearly defined, since it matters for the IFR and ATPL.

[_dwj_]

I don't understand why you would need to modify your logbook. There isn't anywhere in your logbook that you specifically log x-country time - you just add it up when you apply for your rating, then TC verifies it.

There is definitely no requirement to land. My own definition of x-country, for what it's worth, is flying anywhere outside the circuit, as long as you are navigating to one or more specific places and not just generally farting about. Just write your navigation points in the comments section of your logbook and that should be fine.

[MCB]

XC time requires you to land at an aerodrome SEPARATE from your point of departure. The whole 25 mile rule does not apply to XC time....but distance req'd to file a flight plan

On my PPL flight test and during training, I diverted from overhead one town to overhead another town. Still logged it as x-country time as I was definitely using navigation procedure

[wxguy]

XC time requires you to land at an aerodrome SEPARATE from your point of departure. The whole 25 mile rule does not apply to XC time....but distance req'd to file a flight plan

I think this was mentioned earlier, but wouldn't this mean that those around the world flights are not considered xc?

26,336nm isn't xc?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_Voyager

[sakism]

So I take off from Churchill, fly to Rankin Inlet and miss, and return to Churchill.

Doesn't count as x-country. Give your head a shake.

X-country is whatever you think it is. Don't be an idiot about it and you'll be fine.

[100LL81]

Any time you navigate to a specific point is XC in my eyes, even if it is not another airport. It could just be a cool water fall or lake etc.