Another quality FoxNews moment

[The Old Fogducker]

You're making me "Hoppin' mad" Mach1 ... 'ya better watch yer step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pufSYjhcPYo

[Mach1]

That took you longer than I thought it would.

[Joe Blow Schmo]

Al Jazeera English has just been approved for broadcast in Canada.

Yes they have and here is a point I find interesting. Al Jazeera denies the Holocaust ever happened and has been granted a broadcast license in Canada.

Don Cherry is on a 7 sec time delay for saying this about players to who wear visors.

"most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French guys,"

One group gets a platform the other gets censored.

Al Jazeera English and Al Jazeera Arabic are apparently indepedant of each other. The former actually provides quite balanced and informative journalism. They also do some very interesting stories that you don't see on other networks. Not being an arabic speaker I have no idea about the quality of journalism on the arabic version. Fox news, on the other hand, is an ideological joke.

[The Old Fogducker]

Well, its a busy time of year ... LOL

Oh, and Joe Blow, we'll add your name to the list of folks to send to the farm for political re-education classes.

[Mach1]

Yes it is...

Merry Christmas to all... and to all a good flight.

Yes, yes, I know I'm a day early, but I'll be at work.

[The Old Fogducker]

Merry Christmas Mach 1 ... give a listen to "The Shepherd" tonite if you get the chance.

[Mach1]

Merry Christmas to you too TOF.

I will do...



Or was it the bells from the village below? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBMw9j3Hw2E

[The Old Fogducker]

The Shepherd thread appears to have disappeared after someone alluded to me not paying royalties to the CBC after posting the link ... well, I guess out of all the posts I've made since the inception of AvCanada, having one pulled isn't a bad average.

Merry Christmas to all.

OFD

[Mach1]

Christmas is over.

Fox news sucks.

How do they justify being an uber conservative propaganda news network when they are the same entertainment network that brought you Married with Children, the Simpson’s, and Family Guy?

[The Old Fogducker]

Why not ask Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdock about their product?

Interesting thing on the success of FNC ... they out rate all other cable network stations combined, and sometimes quadruple the ratings of their nearest competitor.

Here's a chart of their performance ... albeit from the second quarter of the year, but they have done even better in Q4 due to "Obama The Wonder Dog's" attempted hit job on them .. which backfired and gave them an even greater audience of new viewers from other programming sources...... like MSNBC ... the Micro Soft National Bias Corp.

OFD

[skysix]

At least CBC reports news as news and opinions as opinion. I will take that any day over Fox reporting opinion as news.

x2

[The Old Fogducker]

Hey .... good for you. I hope you enjoy your state-owned, socialism reliant broadcaster ... who develops left-wing viewpoints and transmits them as news.

Further, uses tax-payer money to fund their bloated, overstaffed activities to compete in business with private corporations with their money confiscated by CRTC fees and taxation policies.

[Mach1]

Why not ask Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdock about their product?

Interesting thing on the success of FNC ... they out rate all other cable network stations combined, and sometimes quadruple the ratings of their nearest competitor.

“Let the market decide the truthiness” - Stephen Colbert

Because, “You want the truth! You can’t handle the truth!” - Col. Nathan Jessep

[The Old Fogducker]

Superb choice Mach 1 ... many can't handle the truth.....even here among the readers of AvCanada, there are proponents of World Peace, No Nukes man, no fur, legal rights for animals ... one world government, global warming, income redistribution, limited population growth,... one child per couple, and a host of other so-called social issues of conscience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

[Mach1]

Many of which are noble ideals to work towards. I am not a fool though and understand that the world has a long way to go to reach a utopian society… as a matter of fact that is a journey not a destination as perfection is beyond our reach, but a noble goal for all.

My problem with news media today, particularly with US media (they are the most aggressive offenders of my point) is that none report the facts (or facts as they have them) nor do they put any effort into verifying the facts. The “news” media now reports opinion. I will make up my own mind and form my own opinion, thank you very much. Fox is all about telling me what I think and if I don’t agree… well we are right back to the early years of elementary school… “If you aren’t with me, you’re against me.” Discussion over. I prefer an open dialogue where opinions can change based on new fact and information… you know… reasoning. Reasonable. Fox is all about the propaganda these days, and they are by no means alone in that fault, it is just that it is Fox we are discussing. I could easily say the same thing of the entire Corus Radio network.

The summary is this: Give me the information and let me decide what to think. Give me an opinion, but tell me it is a belief not a fact and I will respect your opinion as long as respect mine… even if we disagree.

That’s not what is happening at Fox.

[The Old Fogducker]

Good post Mach 1, let me ponder it while I take the dog out for a run and get back to you.....but my first impression is that after being in and around the news business for somewhere around 40 years, I can say that the concept of your points is nothing new, so it hasn't begun with Fox News, nor with US broadcasters.

I would submit that even prior to the invention of the printing press, the same thing has been happening. Certainly, when I started working in radio in the mid-60s, reading news from a CN/CP Teletype machine with copy supplied by Broadcast News, it was the case.

OFD

[Mach1]

I would agree with that, I just feel it is getting worse not better. I blame that on the 24 hour news network. That's a lot of time to fill without any time to fact check anymore.

[The Old Fogducker]

Well, while walking the mutt and then doing some shopping afterward, I was musing about our exchange, and came to the conclusion that I don't sufficiently understand your question because of the context in which you use the term "fact check."

Reporters ... (radio & TV reporters anyway) ..... the first one to gather information on the story and put it down on paper, fact checks with a second source wherever they are able, but that isn't always possible. That is due to the pressures of getting the story on-air before the competition. A single-sided story will be prefaced with "an unconfirmed report told Action 7 News" for example. That pressure isn't felt to as great a degree in the print media because there can be hours or days before the presses roll. That slow response time is why I didn't enjoy writing for newspapers and got out of it after only a few months ... sitting on a breaking story for 15 hours until they cranked up the presses always seemed negligent to me, after being used to walking down the hall and going on-air with it a few seconds later.

I'm not sure what you have in mind when you use the term "Fact checking" because I assume you aren't in the industry, and the variable context in which you use it leaves the impression that news is being broadcast which isn't anywhere close to event based..... in plain speak ... lying to the listeners/viewers either through deceit or gross ignorance of the topic without ramification, and that conduct is the norm.

Make no mistake, each and every reporter brings some form of bias to the job based upon their life experiences, education, political beliefs, corporate culture, and a host of other influences. Some are very good at putting aside that bias and tell both sides of a story or description of an event. Some are blatantly open about "their mission" to expose dirt on the other side of their beliefs. Someone like Keith Olbermann, Bill Maher, Jon Steward would fall into that category ... none of those fellas have ever been reporters that I know of.... they are comedians and always have been. The ones for whom I hold a special form of disdain are those who will subtlety weave their personal bias into a story which is supposedly presented as pure recital of events.

You may recall reading one of my earlier posts where I said I lived with a CBC News Dept news writer for several years. Through her, I attended many CBC staff parties, retirement lunches, BBQ's, etc and came to spend many hours with high profile CBC staffers in what they felt was "a conversationally secure atmosphere" listened to them explain their views, questioned them with 4 or 5 beers in their bellies, etc.

I found out that among the news writers, it was a little newsroom game in the corporate culture to blend their personal "hot button issues" into stories for the purpose of ... as they would say ... "move the public forward." One for example was a hot & heavy member of Amnesty International and the John Howard Society, so whenever an opportunity would present itself to use Amnesty International references, quotes, or interview sources in an article, out it would come. She would always write a story on how unjust a judicial sentence was for some piece of scum that hurt some granny by swiping her purse because the perp had such a hard life and had no alternative but to grab the bag because society was so unjust and life so inequitable.

Another was a super-heavy womens rights advocate who also wrote for a now defunct monthly magazine called "Herizons" ..... so whenever she got the chance to make men look like buffoons, or develop material on how women were being mistreated by society, ... guess what she did ..I could continue with dozens of other examples, but my fingers are starting to tire on the keyboard ... one of my personal areas of bias I guess, I was far more used to talking behind a microphone.

So we could likely have a good talk about this over a brewski or two Mach 1 ... and then we could figure out what each others thoughts were rather than exclusively by the written word. It would likely be pretty good fun to sit down in front of a TV and critique a news program and I could tell you exactly how the material is gathered, why it was broadcast in the order it was presented, why the lighting was done the way it was, why the commercial breaks were placed in particular time slots, etc.

Back onto the Fox News Channel for a moment, from a former tv guy perspective, Bill O'Reilly has been the number 1 cable news program for something like 100 months consecutively. As much as some people with left of centre beliefs don't like him, he is indeed a fair and balanced reporter ... and he actually was a journalist earlier in his career .... watch him dispassionately for one show, and you'll note that he gives both sides of a story the opportunity to express their take on the issue ... he is conservative in nature and makes no bones about it, but broadcasts to a large base of independents. Surprisingly, about 40% of his audience self-identifies as being Democrat. His show is an opinion based program and is clearly separated from the "top of the hour" newscasts. He asks tough questions of interviewees ... for example when he interviewed Obama, he was the only one of all the reporters to ask about his long-standing ties to convicted terrorist bomber William Ayers.... a pretty important connection I'd say.

I could contrast that approach with the CBC National News and their so-called "At Issue Panel" that I have yet to hear a single syllable positive about the Conservative government ... not a single word ... ever, ever, ever. That is far from a balanced approach. Look at the number of global warming stories that never show an opposing viewpoint, the number of stories where the term global warming or climate change is slipped in as part of the every day lexicon of the newscaster.

Time for me to grab an ice tea Mach 1. There is still much left unsaid about "how broadcasting works" but now isn't the time to spit it all out at once .. LOL.

Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, I've been out of broadcasting for about 4 years now, and enjoying semi-retirement. I'm particularly enjoying not supervising a radio station staff ... many of whom were ex-CBC types. I did that business at the same time as my flying career, so I was a pretty busy fella some nights & days.... but then so would an Air Canada pilot that runs a swimming pool, or landscaping business on the side I guess.

The Old Fogducker

[Rockie]

Bill O'Reilly has been the number 1 cable news program for something like 100 months consecutively. As much as some people with left of centre beliefs don't like him, he is indeed a fair and balanced reporter ...

As fair and balanced as Keith Olbermann. Decision goes to Keith though because he is not near as insulting in his fair and balanced treatment of his guests, and he has a much better grip on his temper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tJjNVVwRCY
http://crooksandliars.com/media/play/wmv/860/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iLhzHsT ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17UfCP78 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwIRNM5 ... re=related

[The Old Fogducker]

In a witty retort ... "I think you're screwed up Rockie."

So what's wrong with this youtube video Rockie? Where does he lose his temper? All he does is point out how stupid Obama supporters are, and their socialist ideals, centred around "Make the rich pay" is plainly ... stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17UfCP78 ... re=related

And then you post something with Saturday Night Live's Al Franken as a political analyst? Get a brain transplant Rockie!

Here's your well balanced hero Keith Olbermann at work ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaJLbJDuAc

Here's some educational material on MSNBC on Keith Olbermann's Countdown To No Ratings ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZK_0vmoIPI

Another example of The Jerkinator at work ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhyJCVXg-LA

Still more of your beloved Olbermann .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mHhTFmRiaw

The Obama drone's opinion on Fox News ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPk_Sh4txQU

[. ._]

Thanks for the links, Rockie.

I liked this one best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwIRNM5 ... re=related

What kind of a host tells his guest to "shut up". WOW!

-istp


(edited from a link that didn't work, now it does. Thanks OFD.)

[The Old Fogducker]

ITSP ... like Olbermann, Rockie's link contains the following text from Youtube .. "The URL contained a malformed video ID."

OFD

[Mach1]

Fact checking: I mean it in it’s simplest terms… as in the Piper Cessna crashed into XXXX or doing the math to make sure that the graph you are putting up on screen only adds up to 100% and not something significantly higher. For that matter, Fox’s recent penchant for presenting stock footage of previous events to make it appear that an event is more popular than it really is. But you do make an excellent point in terms of second source issues, and I certainly would not disagree with you there because I know that can be difficult. I am just referring to getting the basics right.

For that matter, a “news” network should not be organizing events so that it can cover them.

I am under no illusions that reporters are people and bring their baggage with them to work. The big difference (and I should clarify here… when I refer to the CBC I tend to mean CBC 1 Radio… now I am willing to expand that and say all Canadian media outlets) is that the expression of that personal bias is no where near as overt as it is at any of the US networks. It is plainly obvious where each and every network in the US stands on their politics and it is just that Fox is the most vocal of their opinion. At that point it becomes ideology based reporting, not news.

I am betting we would have many good laughs over the empty beer glasses and I am sure we would have a good healthy debate. I like that. It opens minds and opinions and gives us room to agree to disagree. It is the extremism of the current media in the US that I feel is doing horrible damage to that countries soul. The US has done amazing things when it unites under a single cause. United we stand, divided we fall. Very wise words. You don’t have to blindly agree to everything to stand united and never have. But that is the position being taken by the media now. It is destructive.

Excellent point, Bill and Jon are comedians. It’s their job to make fun of the establishment. If they have a bias, and they do, they are not presenting that as news. Now, I do think it is sad that some of the best interviews being done on TV are being done by a comedian. Jon has a point, and that point is that the news networks are not doing their job. Watch him take on Cramer from Mad Money. He held him accountable in a way no one else has. http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/the-da ... clip149637 A comedian shouldn’t be the guy doing this interview!!

Furthermore, Bill O’Reilly’s show is not news. At least not according to Fox. His show is entertainment, but presented as news. Yes, my least favourite form of broadcasting, “Infotainment.” Opinion presented falsely as news. Now you are an insider and know this is true, I know it’s true. Most pilots are fairly bright people and they likely know this for what it is, but it is astounding how many people take Bill’s opinions as fact… as though it were an actual well researched news story. This blurring of the lines between news and opinion is a well thought out strategy to push one specific agenda that occasionally scares the hell out of me.

Finally, you made an excellent point. The rush to get the story on the air before the competition. That’s where the accuracy falls apart. In flying you know that haste can cost you dearly, I suggest that it is the same in media. The victim of this haste is truth. Pushed aside in the rush to get to air first with the attitude that a retraction can always be made later. At the end of the program when no one is listening anymore.

[The Old Fogducker]

Just a quick reply ... I'm actually working today ... heaven forbid.

The accuracy thing falls into the same error chain that we as pilots face ... momentarily hitting the nav button instead of approach on the autopilot.

Sometimes the error is caught before anything happens and nobody knows the difference, sometimes it is glaring, yet undetected because someone was just too tired, too many things going on at the same time, etc.

Regarding covering your own events, happens all the time, especially in radio ...

[Mach1]

I will let some others do the speaking for me at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzjrIk05YyU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqi8m4CEEY