The Next Gear Up Landing

[superior]

You want to be taken as professionals with this kind of thread??? Why not make a pool for the next pilot that is killed? You people are goddam idiots if you think this is funny.

[2R]

Spring weather is just around the corner.Ice can be thicker than the shit on here somedays.
Be careful and pay attention as losing face is not as painful as losing your ride.

[xsbank]

I am one of the first to search for underlying causes, to try and find the good in every accident, to try and learn something for every pilot's mistake but this is just getting silly. Perhaps the pilot pool is being thinned out here?

This group seems to think that the accident rate is OK, 'Bob' just landed gear up because he's tired, or forgetful, or having trouble at home but he learned something and it won't happen again. Or 'Doris' just hit the ground a mile past the runway and killed a passenger or two because, well just because, but she's recovering and won't do it again.

Most on here don't want any help surviving their lives as pilots, the 'college' has sparked nothing but paranoia and fear that somehow the really mediocre pilots might get smoked out somehow and not be allowed to break any more aircraft or kill any more passengers.

The only response to this dismal, dreary pathetic accident rate is humour. Maybe some really outrageous statements might just piss off a few of you enough to start thinking about safety and maybe your outrage might be channeled into some type of effort to improve this nitwit safety state we've built for ourselves.

Honest to God how many Navajos have landed gear up in Canada just since I started flying? They were old when I started and yet this 'accident' just happened in 2010. Are you all proud of your profession right now? Do something about it!

[2R]

Q: How do you know if you have landed gear up ?






A: It takes full power to taxi to the fuel pumps


Old joke first heard in 1990 at the scene of a gear up

[hz2p]

.

[magyar]

BIgpistonsforever wrote:
I decided a long time ago that simply telling myself I was not going to forget the gear was not enough. The reality of flying especially single pilot flying is that there existed the possibility that the "wrong" series of distractions at just the "right" time could put into the position of landing gear up. I therefore adopted the practice of making a conscious mental "check gear down" at 500 ft AGL on final , or turning final which ever was lower. In the beginning I often forgot, but each time I forgot I gave myself a huge mental kick in the head. eventually it became a reflex.

I second this. i had many experiences last summer where one is literally tested in such >distractions>, and stuff will usually happen within a distracted moment, so especially when there is no-one cross-checking your descisions(co-pilot) Villigance is twice as important, as a matter of fact i just thought of an idea, mabe it would help that you could have a pretend/imaginary co-pilot always sitting next to you so that as you are flying you can cross check your actions required by this imaginary co-pilot point of view. I am sure the imaginary co-pilot would be saying hey dum@a!! put the freaking gear down!

[ei ei owe]

I've never forgotten to remove pants before I take a dump, and I never will.

Everyone here's been drunk enough, at least once, to have taken a little dump (or a big one) in their pants.

[Kzanol]

EDITED

[North Shore]

^ Wow, tell us how you really feel. No, really, go ahead..

[xsbank]

Nice post, Mr. Articulate.

I think I'm just about ready to abandon this place. The few of us who seem to be preaching common sense and safety blah blah blah seem to be roundly ignored by most and have abuse dumped on us by a few. What with "what's the latest lowest wage offered across the country?" posts, morons who stampede towards any company that offers them a job if they pay up front, Bozos willing to work for free because its cheaper than paying a bond, deaths of innocent public every week, a large cluster of primates who saved enough from cutting back on their KD to buy a computer but never learned the language, so-called "professional pilots" who never open a book, I think I've become associated with a pretty marginal band of yahoos (with a few exceptions, of course) who hardly have the competence to dress themselves, let alone fly an airplane with more than 2 knobs.

I got a kick out of having conversations on this site and I even gave a bit back with that resume thing but it seems like all the fun has gone out of it. Maybe I'll give it another try in the spring.

[Doc]

Kzonal. I received your eloquent post via PM. If you'd spend half the energy acting, and operating your aircraft like a professional, that you spend threatening folks with physical violence you might actually go somewhere in this industry.
BTW, when you saw my "shiny" King Air did you also take note of the fact that it was resting on it's landing gear? In the proper position for it's location? ie, down and locked?

[Doc]

I've never forgotten to remove pants before I take a dump, and I never will.

Everyone here's been drunk enough, at least once, to have taken a little dump (or a big one) in their pants.

But that's because they "couldn't" remove their pants.....we're talking "forgetting" here. Pay attention, boy!

[Lurch]

Kzonal. I received your eloquent post via PM. If you'd spend half the energy acting, and operating your aircraft like a professional, that you spend threatening folks with physical violence you might actually go somewhere in this industry.
BTW, when you saw my "shiny" King Air did you also take note of the fact that it was resting on it's landing gear? In the proper position for it's location? ie, down and locked?
BTW, physical threats should be (I find it really disappointing this wasn't done by the moderators of this sight??) passed on to the local police agency for their action.

Doc, I wouldn't be concerned with anything this kid says. He's been flying Commercially less then 2 years and probably still waiting for the other ball to drop. Maybe he's even was one of these "Morons" who forgot his gear and thats why he has his panties in a knot.

Don't go to floats... I had a entry level flying job last year in which I got 110 hours. This brought my total to almost 300 hrs on floats and I couldn't get a float job this spring to save my life. I had one company which seemed semi-interested but they just hired the guy from the year before in the end.

Here are my times as of Jan. 1st 2008
280 TT
180 PIC
130 TT on floats
119.7 PIC on Floats
26 TT on C-185
5 PIC on C-185

Currently working on commercial license. Expect to complete it at end on April.

Lurch

[Hornblower]

Doc, it’s hard to come to grips with someone as negative and egomaniacal as you. What is the appropriate response to someone wanting to bet on the failure, injury or death of their colleagues … hard to pin that down.

I’ve been in this industry a long time and have met good and bad people alike. Every pilot I’ve ever met has made mistakes, and at least three that have gear-up’d. Two of those have moved on and have become competent professional pilots in their own right; one has died of old age following a long and profitable military and civilian pilot career . Every day pilots from all sectors continue to make mistakes, some more significant than others. Almost all learn from them and move on, occasionally some meet more tragic ends. An entire industry and indeed a good part of the efficient functioning of the developed (and not so developed) world relies on those same guys and gals that make the mistakes on a daily basis.

Additionally an entire industry has been built up around trying to prevent errors, and mitigate the impact of the errors we must accept as being inevitable. To demand, and expect perfection is at least foolish, and in fact downright dangerous. I believe that you may be dangerous.

We all make mistakes. Please don’t expect me to believe that you are as perfect as you profess; I’m not that gullible. I would surmise that along with the technical mistakes that you make daily, you suffer from character flaws that have relegated you, despite your age and experience, to a flying your light twin in a sector of the aviation industry, and a part of the world that many professional pilots (who have made mistakes and moved on) consider to be the purgatory of aviation.

So no wonder you have attracted the ire of a number of posters, and the disdain of many of your colleagues. Best of luck with what’s left of your career.

[Minimums]

+1 for the fruity colored airplanes

[Doc]

Doc, it’s hard to come to grips with someone as negative and egomaniacal as you.

I’ve been in this industry a long time and have met good and bad people alike. Every pilot I’ve ever met has made mistakes, and at least three that have gear-up’d.

errors we must accept as being inevitable. To demand, and expect perfection is at least foolish, and in fact downright dangerous. I believe that you may be dangerous.

flying your light twin in a sector of the aviation industry, and a part of the world that many professional pilots (who have made mistakes and moved on) consider to be the purgatory of aviation.

One at a time. "Negative and ego maniacal"? Interesting observation. I'm very negative towards "morons" who don't have enough pride in themselves or their profession to land with the gear down. And then "hide" behind politically correct excuses, unwilling to accept responsibility for their actions. I'm negative towards folks who threaten physical violence on anonymous web sites.
"ego maniacal" Two words BTW. You could find this little tidbit on spell check. But, you're just too angry to care, aren't you?

I know of no pilots personally who have landed gear up. Your buddies must be a product of poor training? Or lackadaisical attitudes.

You find "to expect and demand perfection.....is downright dangerous..." Okay, so you expect dumb ass accidents? I do not! This makes ME dangerous? We're not demanding "perfection". We're demanding you put the fucken gear down..EVERY TIME!!

As far as my choice in job and location.
I fly with great folks, who are among the most experienced in the industry. I usually work a three day week. I'm home every night. I live in a new home on the lake. My wife works as a professional in the area. I have a 12 kilometer commute to work. We are NEVER pushed. We are on a first name basis with our clients. Unlike most in this business, who spend their spare time chasing the Holy Grail, we know when we have it good.

[Cat Driver]

I don't hold Doc in disdain.

Then again I never made much of my flying career either.

So tell us about how famous you are Hornblower and let us know the lofty heights you reached from which to look down on us poor unfortunates.

[Hornblower]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egomaniacal

http://www.yourdictionary.com/egomaniacal

http://dictionary.canadaspace.com/defin ... omaniacal/

Oops, ... looks like you may have made a mistake. You're forgiven.

[Doc]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egomaniacal

http://www.yourdictionary.com/egomaniacal

http://dictionary.canadaspace.com/defin ... omaniacal/

Oops, ... looks like you may have made a mistake. You're forgiven.

You have way too much time on your hands.

This is not a popular thread. It wasn't launched to win a popularity contest. I started it to point out just how inexcusable "forgetting" to lower the landing gear is. It's not a mistake, it's a total disregard of one's profession. It's just not giving a damn.

The egomaniacal thing....my spell check(still) really comes up as two words......that's the "equipment". Like not being ABLE to lower the landing gear. That would be the "equipment" as well now, wouldn't it?

[ditar]

flying your light twin in a sector of the aviation industry, and a part of the world that many professional pilots (who have made mistakes and moved on) consider to be the purgatory of aviation.

As far as my choice in job and location.
I fly with great folks, who are among the most experienced in the industry. I usually work a three day week. I'm home every night. I live in a new home on the lake. My wife works as a professional in the area. I have a 12 kilometer commute to work. We are NEVER pushed. We are on a first name basis with our clients. Unlike most in this business, who spend their spare time chasing the Holy Grail, we know when we have it good.

I agree with that, Doc. Not everyone aspires to the majors. And there's nothing wrong with sticking where you're at when you have the lifestyle you want and work for someone that treats and pays you well. Not everyone is so lucky. Besides, I'd have a pretty hard time taking a 50% or more pay cut right now to go work for an airline. I'm going to have to find a rich sugar momma to subsidize me before I go and do that!

[HORUNNER]

Blah blah blah blah

Does all this belly acheing mean the bets are off or are we still on???

[Widow]

Winnipeg Free Press - PRINT EDITION

No malfunction in belly landing
Safety board closes crash investigation
By: Kevin Rollason

15/01/2010 1:00 AM | Comments: 0


FEDERAL air crash investigators have determined there were no equipment malfunctions in a plane which skidded down the runway at Bloodvein First Nation on its belly without its landing gear down last week.

Peter Hildebrand, regional manager for the Transportation Safety Board, said the Superior Airways Piper Navajo Chieftain was equipped with a device to warn the pilot the landing gear wasn't down, but it didn't come on.

The landing gear was working properly, but was not engaged, Hildebrand said.

"If you bump the power up you won't get the warning until you retard the power," Hildebrand said.

"The approach was with fair power to the engine... We don't say pilot error, but we won't say there was an equipment malfunction."

Hildebrand said because that was the cause of the incident the TSB has closed its books on it and won't investigate further.

Nine adults and four infants were flying on a charter flight from Pikangikum, Ont., to a church gathering in Bloodvein when the plane landed on its belly on Jan. 8 at about 4:30 p.m. No one was injured

Superior Airways president Mike Misurka said on Wednesday the pilot of the plane is still suspended from flying.

Misurka said the plane will be repaired and will probably by flying again in about a month.

"I think about (putting down landing gear) everytime I do it," he said.

"Unfortunately, it reflects badly on the company... I would always have the landing gear down much earlier."

Misurka confirmed the plane has a factory-installed alarm to warn a pilot that he or she hasn't put down the landing gear, but it was the only plane in its fleet that hadn't installed another alarm which would be controlled by altitude instead of the throttle.

Meanwhile, the TSB has determined that serious damage to an air ambulance, whose landing gear collapsed while landing at Richardson International Airport on Dec. 23, was caused by the co-pilot pulling the wrong lever.

The SkyNorth Air plane was landing at about 2:30 a.m., with three crew members and a patient when the landing gear collapsed. The mishap caused another plane to be diverted to another runway to land.

Hildebrand said the co-pilot meant to pull the lever controlling the aircraft's flaps, but instead "the landing gear was selected after the plane touched down." Hildebrand said the plane was equipped with a safety device to prevent that from happening, but it doesn't work until more of the plane's weight touches down on the runway.

kevin.rollason@freepress.mb.ca

Find this article at:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/ ... 61872.html

[Doc]

Winnipeg Free Press - PRINT EDITION

No malfunction in belly landing
Safety board closes crash investigation
By: Kevin Rollason

15/01/2010 1:00 AM | Comments: 0


FEDERAL air crash investigators have determined there were no equipment malfunctions in a plane which skidded down the runway at Bloodvein First Nation on its belly without its landing gear down last week.

Peter Hildebrand, regional manager for the Transportation Safety Board, said the Superior Airways Piper Navajo Chieftain was equipped with a device to warn the pilot the landing gear wasn't down, but it didn't come on.

The landing gear was working properly, but was not engaged, Hildebrand said.

"If you bump the power up you won't get the warning until you retard the power," Hildebrand said.

"The approach was with fair power to the engine... We don't say pilot error, but we won't say there was an equipment malfunction."

Hildebrand said because that was the cause of the incident the TSB has closed its books on it and won't investigate further.

Nine adults and four infants were flying on a charter flight from Pikangikum, Ont., to a church gathering in Bloodvein when the plane landed on its belly on Jan. 8 at about 4:30 p.m. No one was injured

Superior Airways president Mike Misurka said on Wednesday the pilot of the plane is still suspended from flying.

Misurka said the plane will be repaired and will probably by flying again in about a month.

"I think about (putting down landing gear) everytime I do it," he said.

"Unfortunately, it reflects badly on the company... I would always have the landing gear down much earlier."

Misurka confirmed the plane has a factory-installed alarm to warn a pilot that he or she hasn't put down the landing gear, but it was the only plane in its fleet that hadn't installed another alarm which would be controlled by altitude instead of the throttle.

Meanwhile, the TSB has determined that serious damage to an air ambulance, whose landing gear collapsed while landing at Richardson International Airport on Dec. 23, was caused by the co-pilot pulling the wrong lever.

The SkyNorth Air plane was landing at about 2:30 a.m., with three crew members and a patient when the landing gear collapsed. The mishap caused another plane to be diverted to another runway to land.

Hildebrand said the co-pilot meant to pull the lever controlling the aircraft's flaps, but instead "the landing gear was selected after the plane touched down." Hildebrand said the plane was equipped with a safety device to prevent that from happening, but it doesn't work until more of the plane's weight touches down on the runway.

kevin.rollason@freepress.mb.ca

Find this article at:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/ ... 61872.html

So, lets see if I have this straight? There was no "pilot error"? There was no "cause" to the accident?

And in the other "incident" the co-pilot "meant" to retract the flaps? It's just that the "safety device" wasn't working?

So then, these incidents are Okay with Transport Canada? Well then, there's an excuse even I've never heard before. Guess it just doesn't matter.....

Now TC can spend their time hunting down guys who haven't filed a change of address.....

[xsbank]

Doc, it was the Winnipeg Free Press so the accuracy is probably 50% (I'm feeling generous - I'm out for dinner in a coupla minutes!). Therefore, don't let it spoil your evening. It was an SOP thing - I thought nobody touched the flaps until you were at taxi speed and you called for the after-landing check? Then if the nimrod who grabbed the gear lever yanked on it, he would have not been able to defeat the safety latch. Its not the copilot's fault, the captain or the CP should carry the can for that one. Basic CRM, or a failure to train properly, still not the copilot's fault (Gawd I'm assuming a new copilot, not a veteran. Probably still the CP's fault ).

The guy who skidded the last Navajo along on its belly? No excuse, he forgot (unless he was tired, his wife is leaving him, his line-of-credit was called, his mother is sick.................).

[ywgflyboy]

Doc, it was the Winnipeg Free Press so the accuracy is probably 50% (I'm feeling generous - I'm out for dinner in a coupla minutes!). Therefore, don't let it spoil your evening. It was an SOP thing - I thought nobody touched the flaps until you were at taxi speed and you called for the after-landing check? Then if the nimrod who grabbed the gear lever yanked on it, he would have not been able to defeat the safety latch. Its not the copilot's fault, the captain or the CP should carry the can for that one. Basic CRM, or a failure to train properly, still not the copilot's fault (Gawd I'm assuming a new copilot, not a veteran. Probably still the CP's fault ).

All of that occurred on a 10,000 ft runway where a taxi to the other end was necessary anyways. Maybe some SOPs are in need of some SMS reviews.