CFB Trenton Wing Commander charged two counts murder . . .

[C-GOYR]

It's not what he has thrown away, it is what he may have done to other human beings that is unfathomable.

Kirsten B.

Fully agree with you as it seems his actions have escalated to invole the tragic murder of these two women.

[Meatservo]

Either way, if convicted this guy faces a lot of unpleasant time. When he's finally turned over to the federal prison system; he's looking at spending the rest of his sentence in segregation since rapist/murderers aren't hugely popular with other prisoners. Neither are cops/soldiers.

I don't imagine officers are all that popular with the other military prisoners, either.

For the sake of right vs wrong .... this man is innocent until proven guilty . I find it hard to believe a well rounded, respectful Colonel in the Canadian Forces, is capable of such evil acts. If the evidence is hand's down strong, I hope that he ultimately gets what he deserves.

If only this were true. I think we'd all like to believe in the inviolability of certain positions, like military officers, cops, firemen, hell even pilots, I guess, but we know it's not true.

[C-GGGQ]

So not even the canadian military still has the death penalty? (as someone posted max penalty is 2 years minus a day). Not even for espionage or treason etc?

[Rockie]

The military is subordinate to civilian government in every respect. No death penalty in Canada means all of Canada.

[Isis]

I vaguely recall an incident some years ago, a couple of high school students who also happened to be Air Cadets were involved in some kind of dickens at their school, either making a bomb threat or bringing some kind of firearms to the school. Anyway, what I remember about the whole thing is that the news reported that the Military Police were the first people to pay these young fellas a visit...

I doubt this very much. Unless the incident happened on base, the MPs would not get involved with cadets. As far as the youth are concerned, it's a CIVILIAN volunteer organisation. The only members held accountable to the DND are the officers (who hold commissions).

So unless it was thought that their officers were somehow involved, the MPs wouldn't have even known about it, let alone got involved.

This is quite the shocking case. Like snoopy, I too fear what other acts this man may have gotten away with.

[MrWings]

The more that comes out about this story, the more twisted, bizarre and compelling it becomes.

I wouldn't be surprised if a movie is made about it one day.

[Doc]

They (OPP) are looking into unsolved murders going back 20 years, everywhere this chap lived/was based. Can you say "Ted Bundy"? Knew ya could. Pretty good cover for a serial killer. Absolutely zero sympathy from this poster. Whiskey for my men, and beer for my horses.....

[kevenv]

I served 15 years in the military. The maximum sentence in a military prison is 2 years. After that you are dishonorably discharged from the Forces and transferred to a civilian prison to serve the remainder or until paroled. This is what happened to Kyle Brown (remember the airborne?)

The Col will not be tried in a military court. The offenses do not involve the military. He was charged by the OPP for crimes that the OPP were investigating. For sure they will have contact with the military police and the JAG but DND has no control or jurisdiction over the proceedings. His lawyer at trial will be a civilian. He may well (probably will) have contact with a military lawyer during the trial whose job is to keep an eye on the proceedings as well as to provide advice if requested.

He will in all likelihood be carried as a member of the CF until such time as (If) he is found guilty. He would then be discharged from the forces and serve his sentence in civilian prison.

[kingeddie]

Is it just me ????? Time to pay the rent

[MrWings]

Better check near French Lick, IL.

[Meatservo]

I vaguely recall an incident some years ago, a couple of high school students who also happened to be Air Cadets were involved in some kind of dickens at their school, either making a bomb threat or bringing some kind of firearms to the school. Anyway, what I remember about the whole thing is that the news reported that the Military Police were the first people to pay these young fellas a visit...

I doubt this very much. Unless the incident happened on base, the MPs would not get involved with cadets. As far as the youth are concerned, it's a CIVILIAN volunteer organisation. The only members held accountable to the DND are the officers (who hold commissions).

So unless it was thought that their officers were somehow involved, the MPs wouldn't have even known about it, let alone got involved.

This is quite the shocking case. Like snoopy, I too fear what other acts this man may have gotten away with.

I know, it sounds outlandish, but the only reason I remember this incident is because of the MP thing. It was ten years or more ago, so I was thinking at the time maybe the military was interested perhaps because of the possibility of the youths having gotten their mitts on something at the range and smuggled it out, or maybe managed to bring one of their colour party rifles to school. Remember, years ago these Cadets used real (.22 converted) rifles at target practice, and drilled with old lee-enfields with the guts removed. I don't remember enough about the details of the news story to tell you any more about what the kids actually did, could be their CO called in a favour in order to put a scare into them. It was in the news, though, I remember distinctly being quite astonished that military police were involved.

Anyhow, sorry for getting off-topic. My point at the time was, you can be sure military AND civilian law enforcement people are going to be quite interested in this guy. This on the heels of the American major murdering soldiers in Texas, is quite upsetting.

[shitdisturber]

I served 15 years in the military. The maximum sentence in a military prison is 2 years. After that you are dishonorably discharged from the Forces and transferred to a civilian prison to serve the remainder or until paroled. This is what happened to Kyle Brown (remember the airborne?)

The Col will not be tried in a military court. The offenses do not involve the military. He was charged by the OPP for crimes that the OPP were investigating. For sure they will have contact with the military police and the JAG but DND has no control or jurisdiction over the proceedings. His lawyer at trial will be a civilian. He may well (probably will) have contact with a military lawyer during the trial whose job is to keep an eye on the proceedings as well as to provide advice if requested.

He will in all likelihood be carried as a member of the CF until such time as (If) he is found guilty. He would then be discharged from the forces and serve his sentence in civilian prison.

I think you're wrong there. Since the first person he is alleged to have killed was a Cpl serving at Trenton I think the military will get to try him first. A far better fate in my book since he'd end up doing his two years in Edmonton first before being sent off to the far easier federal prison system.

Meatservo, in answer to your question; it doesn't really matter if any prisoners from the ranks like him or not. In CFDB or whatever they're calling it now all aspects of a prisoner's day is strictly controlled; including interaction with other prisoners. For example, a guy I knew did some time there and he told me even speaking to the guards was a privilege that had to be earned. He's probably considerably safer in military prison than he would be in a federal pen; but in CFDB he'd actually be punished, as opposed to just serving time. Again, going on the assumption that he's convicted.

[Doc]

This on the heels of the American major murdering soldiers in Texas, is quite upsetting.

So, our killer outranks their killer! Take THAT, Yanks!
I don't GARA who's court tries the self righteous, sanctimonious prick, as long as he has a room mate named Bubba, and they throw away the keys. And, that's the bottom line!

[Isis]

Assuming he's guilty, Doc, I agree.

[SAR_YQQ]

So not even the canadian military still has the death penalty?

Death penalty under the NDA was removed during the revamp of the Act in the 90's.

[MrWings]

I'm curious, how many guests do we have staying at our military prison? I would have to guess only a handful.

Just out of pure speculation, would you say that this guy is more likely to commit suicide? You know, honorable soldier disgraced going out in style. Maybe I've watched A Few Good Men too many times.

[Doc]

Just out of pure speculation, would you say that this guy is more likely to commit suicide? You know, honorable soldier disgraced going out in style. Maybe I've watched A Few Good Men too many times.

I'd be willing to lend him my Kimber......and one bullet.

[Rotten Apple #1]

I vaguely recall an incident some years ago, a couple of high school students who also happened to be Air Cadets were involved in some kind of dickens at their school, either making a bomb threat or bringing some kind of firearms to the school. Anyway, what I remember about the whole thing is that the news reported that the Military Police were the first people to pay these young fellas a visit...

I doubt this very much. Unless the incident happened on base, the MPs would not get involved with cadets. As far as the youth are concerned, it's a CIVILIAN volunteer organisation. The only members held accountable to the DND are the officers (who hold commissions).

So unless it was thought that their officers were somehow involved, the MPs wouldn't have even known about it, let alone got involved.

This is quite the shocking case. Like snoopy, I too fear what other acts this man may have gotten away with.

Isis, I was an air cadet for six years, followed by about 5 years of service in the Cadet Instructor List (CIL), reaching the rank of Captain. The MP's most definitely did have the right to investigate our activities, as the following archived news article shows:

Military police laid charges of sexual assault and common assault against Basil Williams and a charge of sexual assault against Christopher Plummer, both members of 2754 Royal Canadian Army Cadet Corps, of Toronto.

The cadets, both 18, were charged under section 271 of the Criminal Code that covers unwanted sexual advances and touching as a result of an incident involving a female army cadet under 18 in late June at the cadet summer training centre. They are to appear in Barrie Provincial Court Aug. 5.

The investigation service said yesterday one charge of sexual assault was laid against Master-Warrant Officer Roy Young, 46, relating to incidents alleged by a civilian female secretary to have occurred between April and June at the camp. Young is to appear in court in Barrie on Aug. 12.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Here is the job description of the Military Police, from the Canadian Forces recruiting site:

WHAT THEY DO
Military Police with the Canadian Forces (CF) serve a community of 200,000 Regular and Reserve Force members, Department of National Defence (DND) civilian employees, cadets, and family members residing on military establishments in Canada and abroad. Whether at home on CF bases or abroad on international missions, Military Police, in conjunction with civilian and allied military police forces, protect and support all components of the CF. With over 1,250 full-time members, they form one of the largest police forces in Canada.

The international scope of the CF requires that Military Police provide services in Canada and around the world. All Canadian citizens are entitled to the same rights, privileges and protection under Canadian law, and Military Police are qualified to provide these services to the same standard as every other Canadian police service. Military Police routinely function within the civilian criminal and military justice systems, and are recognised as peace officers in the Criminal Code of Canada.

Note the reference to cadets. Now back to the tragic story at hand.

Edit: Here's some more info from the recruiting site:

Specific tasks of Military Police may include:

Supporting CF missions around the world, by providing policing and operational support

Enforcing provincial and federal laws and regulations on DND establishments

Investigating and reporting incidents involving military and/or criminal offences

Performing other policing duties, such as traffic control, traffic-accident investigation, emergency response, and liaison with Canadian, allied and other foreign police forces

Developing and applying crime prevention measures to protect military communities against criminal acts

Coordinating tasks related to persons held in custody (including military detainees and prisoners of war)

Providing security at selected Canadian embassies around the world

Providing service to the community through conflict mediation, negotiation, dispute resolution, public relations and victim assistance

[kevenv]

I served 15 years in the military. The maximum sentence in a military prison is 2 years. After that you are dishonorably discharged from the Forces and transferred to a civilian prison to serve the remainder or until paroled. This is what happened to Kyle Brown (remember the airborne?)

The Col will not be tried in a military court. The offenses do not involve the military. He was charged by the OPP for crimes that the OPP were investigating. For sure they will have contact with the military police and the JAG but DND has no control or jurisdiction over the proceedings. His lawyer at trial will be a civilian. He may well (probably will) have contact with a military lawyer during the trial whose job is to keep an eye on the proceedings as well as to provide advice if requested.

He will in all likelihood be carried as a member of the CF until such time as (If) he is found guilty. He would then be discharged from the forces and serve his sentence in civilian prison.

I think you're wrong there. Since the first person he is alleged to have killed was a Cpl serving at Trenton I think the military will get to try him first. A far better fate in my book since he'd end up doing his two years in Edmonton first before being sent off to the far easier federal prison system.

Meatservo, in answer to your question; it doesn't really matter if any prisoners from the ranks like him or not. In CFDB or whatever they're calling it now all aspects of a prisoner's day is strictly controlled; including interaction with other prisoners. For example, a guy I knew did some time there and he told me even speaking to the guards was a privilege that had to be earned. He's probably considerably safer in military prison than he would be in a federal pen; but in CFDB he'd actually be punished, as opposed to just serving time. Again, going on the assumption that he's convicted.

I beg to differ. The following is an excerpt from a report on the Somalia affair a number of years ago.

"Under the Code of Service Discipline all service offences committed outside Canada and most committed in Canada can be tried by service tribunals. The only exceptions are certain offences committed in Canada -- murder, manslaughter, certain sexual offences, and abduction offences under sections 280-283 of the Criminal Code.49 These can be tried only by civil courts."

[shitdisturber]

I served 15 years in the military. The maximum sentence in a military prison is 2 years. After that you are dishonorably discharged from the Forces and transferred to a civilian prison to serve the remainder or until paroled. This is what happened to Kyle Brown (remember the airborne?)

The Col will not be tried in a military court. The offenses do not involve the military. He was charged by the OPP for crimes that the OPP were investigating. For sure they will have contact with the military police and the JAG but DND has no control or jurisdiction over the proceedings. His lawyer at trial will be a civilian. He may well (probably will) have contact with a military lawyer during the trial whose job is to keep an eye on the proceedings as well as to provide advice if requested.

He will in all likelihood be carried as a member of the CF until such time as (If) he is found guilty. He would then be discharged from the forces and serve his sentence in civilian prison.

I think you're wrong there. Since the first person he is alleged to have killed was a Cpl serving at Trenton I think the military will get to try him first. A far better fate in my book since he'd end up doing his two years in Edmonton first before being sent off to the far easier federal prison system.

Meatservo, in answer to your question; it doesn't really matter if any prisoners from the ranks like him or not. In CFDB or whatever they're calling it now all aspects of a prisoner's day is strictly controlled; including interaction with other prisoners. For example, a guy I knew did some time there and he told me even speaking to the guards was a privilege that had to be earned. He's probably considerably safer in military prison than he would be in a federal pen; but in CFDB he'd actually be punished, as opposed to just serving time. Again, going on the assumption that he's convicted.

I beg to differ. The following is an excerpt from a report on the Somalia affair a number of years ago.

"Under the Code of Service Discipline all service offences committed outside Canada and most committed in Canada can be tried by service tribunals. The only exceptions are certain offences committed in Canada -- murder, manslaughter, certain sexual offences, and abduction offences under sections 280-283 of the Criminal Code.49 These can be tried only by civil courts."

Ok, so they can't get him for the murders, Cornwallis was a long time ago and I did a memory dump as soon as the bus went through the gates. That being said, the JAG can still get him for any number of charges including "conduct unbecoming" and "abuse of a subordinate" which are two that immediately spring to mind. I know I'd throw everything I could think of at him in order to ensure he spent his first two years in Edmonton. At least there he'd actually pay for the crimes instead of "receiving treatment in order to make him a productive member of society."

[RatherBeFlying]

At least there he'd actually pay for the crimes instead of "receiving treatment in order to make him a productive member of society."

As far as I know, Paul Bernardo spends 23+ hours a day in solitary with plexiglass on his door so nobody can throw stuff at him and he can't throw anything at anybody.

There's lots of prestige (and extra time) waiting for any con that manages to slip a shiv into him or one of his esteemed neighbors.

Executing somebody reasonably humanely is much too quick a way out for such folk.

[North Shore]

Just out of pure speculation, would you say that this guy is more likely to commit suicide? You know, honorable soldier disgraced going out in style. Maybe I've watched A Few Good Men too many times.

[Assuming guilty as charged.] What honour? Once these crimes were committed, there was no honour present at all. Suicide is allowing him an easy way out.

[MrWings]

Honorable is probably not the right word. Maybe highly decorated, highly admired.

From all accounts so far, he had a good record as a soldier and was moving up the ranks. Everyone is shocked that he could do such a thing.

He seemed to be a model soldier. But yes, if he did do those things there was no honor only a charade. I bet he thinks he is honorable.

[Doc]

Come on guys, he's only human. Humans make mistakes. He probably had a hard childhood. Perhaps his mother was a pole dancer, and his father was a pimp, who beat him every day. Maybe he was forced to live in a closet and eat dog food. At least he's never done a gear up landing!