Double Engine Failure CADOR - Anyone know about this?

[YOWza]

A bigger problem is that TC KNOWS this stuff...people have made numerous complaints, but I think some folks at TC are just riding on 'til retirement hoping nothing will happen on their "watch".

How long have you been in aviation YOWza, I hope you don't think this is something new.

TC always was to be kind " myopic " when it comes to these issues.

I've been in just over 10 years...to be honest, I've only been dealing with TC for a few years.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I've been in just over 10 years...to be honest, I've only been dealing with TC for a few years.

Rather you than me my friend.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

YOWza: Are you ASSuming that all FTU's have S.O.P.'s?

These " SOP's " you speak of, are they something that each school cobbles together based on their own ideas of how a given airplane should be flown?

[Hornblower]

There lies part of the problem. These "schools" get hard up for a multi instructor and take anyone who meets minimum numerical requirements. Just as long as the recruiter guy in India or China is happy...what else matters to them? A bigger problem is that TC KNOWS this stuff...people have made numerous complaints, but I think some folks at TC are just riding on 'til retirement hoping nothing will happen on their "watch".

Well what exactly is it that you think TC should do about it, ride in and tell everyone who is legally acceptable in accordance with the laws of Canada that they are not in good enough to meet your standards of what is appropriate??? If you think the standards should be raised or changed in some way, there is nothing stopping you from getting on the regulatory wagon train through whatever venue you see fit. CARAC participation in some capacity would be a start, or you could make a spectacle out of yourself in the press like some others ... whatever works. But don't expect TC to pick up on your ideas unless you can somehow force TSB or political pressure to bear on their rule making machinery

Ask Cat Driver how well it is appreciated when TC tries to impose their own opinion of what is suitable ... notwithstanding what the regs say.

[iflyforpie]

And a impartial knowledge / flight test before being approved.

Something like a PPC?

I do find it funny that the regs say the exact opposite of your thinking (PPC for 703/4/5, none for 406).

[Chuck Ellsworth]

YOWza as Hornblower just suggested, be very, very careful in what you say to TCCA.

Their world is very murky and one never knows who is beholden to who.

When it comes down to how TCCA will make a decision the rules really have no meaning to them as they are uncountable and can and do ignore the rules with impunity.

Be careful of what you say even here on what you think is a anonymous forum...

[YOWza]

There lies part of the problem. These "schools" get hard up for a multi instructor and take anyone who meets minimum numerical requirements. Just as long as the recruiter guy in India or China is happy...what else matters to them? A bigger problem is that TC KNOWS this stuff...people have made numerous complaints, but I think some folks at TC are just riding on 'til retirement hoping nothing will happen on their "watch".

Well what exactly is it that you think TC should do about it, ride in and tell everyone who is legally acceptable in accordance with the laws of Canada that they are not in good enough to meet your standards of what is appropriate??? If you think the standards should be raised or changed in some way, there is nothing stopping you from getting on the regulatory wagon train through whatever venue you see fit. CARAC participation in some capacity would be a start, or you could make a spectacle out of yourself in the press like some others ... whatever works. But don't expect TC to pick up on your ideas unless you can somehow force TSB or political pressure to bear on their rule making machinery

Ask Cat Driver how well it is appreciated when TC tries to impose their own opinion of what is suitable ... notwithstanding what the regs say.

Certainly what's lacking is a way to test the instructing abilities of potential multi-engine instructors. The single engine tests are a joke, and somehow you can just teach multi without it being verified that you can actually instruct in this class of plane. I'm wondering if there are many other people interested in the idea of having truly qualified instructors who would like to push for a change. People also have to push harder for decency in the way schools are operated. It takes more people writing and phone calls, not laziness and apathy. When I'm not satisfied with one contact, I try a new one. In the meantime I can absolutely change what goes on directly around me and my workplace and do so on the side of quality, safety, and fairness.

So, Cat Driver...what happens...if i may ask?

[Cat Driver]

So, Cat Driver...what happens...if i may ask?

Well in my case they bankrupted my company and drove me out of Canada to find work as a pilot.

Not to mention they reneged on their own agreement to compenstae me for my losses with an agreed upon amount of money which was $250,000.00 if an investigation into my charges of wrongdoing by TCCA were proven to be true.

I never flew commercially again in Canada after they decided they would not approve of any training I did in Canada. That was in 2003 as I recall.

Mind you I found third world countries to be far better to fly in and their authorities to be less dishonest than a few of TCCA's top management.

[Hornblower]

Cat Driver was apparently abused at one time by a TC person who applied his own interpretation of the rules. My only point here is that you don’t blame TC for not crossing the regulatory line, they are bound by the same laws we are. There is no fault to be laid at TC’s door if they are enforcing the rules as written, and in fact it is really ugly when they try to do otherwise, … neither you nor . would appreciate that. So if you don’t think the existing rules are adequate, don’t blame TC, blame ourselves or society.

[Cat Driver]

neither you nor . would appreciate that.

Hornblower I take personal offense at your comment as it is insulting and untrue.

Therefore I am requesting you remove it.

[canwhitewolf]

Training flight, both pilots ok. the gear collapsed on touchdown but it looks to be more or less intact still. The double engine failure call was made about a minute after the single engine failure. begin speculation!

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a true engine failure on one engine and shuts down the other by mistake

[Big Pistons Forever]

Training flight, both pilots ok. the gear collapsed on touchdown but it looks to be more or less intact still. The double engine failure call was made about a minute after the single engine failure. begin speculation!

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a true engine failure on one engine and shuts down the other by mistake

Was it a "true engine failure" or a case of a deliberate engine shutdown carried out as part of TC's stupid policy of requiring an actual shutdown and feathering of a engine as part of the multi engine rating curriculum, so badly mismanaged that the second engine was inadvertantly shut down. If this was the case I bet they bungled the secure engine checklist and turned off the fuel to the operating engine.

[canwhitewolf]

Training flight, both pilots ok. the gear collapsed on touchdown but it looks to be more or less intact still. The double engine failure call was made about a minute after the single engine failure. begin speculation!

**********************************************************************

a true engine failure on one engine and shuts down the other by mistake

Was it a "true engine failure" or a case of a deliberate engine shutdown carried out as part of TC's stupid policy of requiring an actual shutdown and feathering of a engine as part of the multi engine rating curriculum, so badly mismanaged that the second engine was inadvertantly shut down. If this was the case I bet they bungled the secure engine checklist and turned off the fuel to the operating engine.

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its happened before where a pilot had an engine failure and feathered and shut down the other (wrong engine)

it happened in a DC3, fortunately they had just enough altitude to reverse all the errrors and get the good engine up and going again and landed uneventfully with one engine feathered

never rush to shut down an engine failure seems to be reasonable advice

control- power -drag and then get very methodical and double check

[Caracrane]

If no contamination and/or fuk-up well I go for carb ice. Sure TSB will say that enignes run perfect..

[mag check]

If no contamination and/or fuk-up well I go for carb ice. Sure TSB will say that enignes run perfect..

Pa30 is injected as already mentioned, so carb ice is a no go, even in an unlikely event of an induction filter freeze up, the pa30 has an automatic alternate air(also manually operated).

On a side note, what is with the comments by the airport manager? Seriously, it should be a requirement for an airport manager to be a pilot, then they wouldn't make ridiculous comments.